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  #61  
Old 03-05-2016, 08:09 AM
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During the time when a Bernadotte have been on the throne there has benen 11 at the maximum
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  #62  
Old 03-05-2016, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
But Sweden is a liberal country though, when it comes to this issue. During the last five decades, the status of the illegitimate have increased. I don't even think a royal having an illegitimate would raise too many eyebrows anymore.
To be a successor to the Swedish throne the child has to be born in wedlock:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_o...Swedish_throne

Meaning, if any member of the SRF has a child that was a result of a hook up, fling, long term affair without benefit of clergy at the end is ineligible for the throne.
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  #63  
Old 03-05-2016, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
To be a successor to the Swedish throne the child has to be born in wedlock:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_o...Swedish_throne

Meaning, if any member of the SRF has a child that was a result of a hook up, fling, long term affair without benefit of clergy at the end is ineligible for the throne.
This is quite interesting! I've always assumed that children born out of wedlock can't inherit the throne. But the law text about the line of succession doesn't mention anything about that. I've read it twice now, and can't find a paragraph about this.
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  #64  
Old 03-05-2016, 04:25 PM
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Here's the link to the Swedish Act of Succession:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Act_of_Succession

The bullet points are as follows:

Only children born in wedlock may inherit the Throne.

Only the descendants of Carl XVI Gustaf may inherit the Throne.

A prince or princess in the line of succession shall belong to and profess the "pure evangelical faith", as defined in the Unaltered Augsburg Confession and the Uppsala Meeting of 1591, i.e. by implication the Church of Sweden.

The offspring of an approved marriage must be brought up within Sweden.

A prince or princess may not marry and remain in the line of succession without having received consent, upon application of the Monarch, from the Government of Sweden.

A prince or princess is also prevented from becoming monarch of another country, either by election or marriage, without the consent of the Monarch and the Government.

If any of these provisions are violated: all rights of succession for the person concerned and all descendants are lost.

It's not clear what constitute "legitimate"? Does the child have to be conceived and born in wedlock?
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  #65  
Old 03-05-2016, 04:49 PM
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But that's not the Swedish Act of succession, it's a wikipedia article in english, and also just a summary. This is the law text in swedish: https://www.riksdagen.se/sv/Dokument...sfs-1810-0926/

I read it twice, and my university major was in history. I still can't see something in there that explicitly says that the child has to be born in wedlock. It talks about "bröstarvingar", but that just means children and grandchildren. The only explanation I can think of right now is that the word "bröstarvingar" meant "children within marriage" when the text was written, but that the word has now changed its meaning.

Edit: I think I found it! The text just before the paragraphs says "... hans kungl. höghets JOHAN BAPTIST JULII, furstens av Ponte-Corvo, äkta manliga bröstarvingar". The word "äkta" could be translated to "legitimate".
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  #66  
Old 03-05-2016, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Josefine View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josefine View Post
In the bernadotte era as most there 11 in line to the throne
31th october 1916, prince Carl Johan is born

HRH The Crown Prince, Duke of Skåne (prince Gustaf Adolf born 1982)
HRH Duke of Västerbotten, (prince Gustaf Adolf born 1906)
HRH Duke of Uppland (prince Sigvard born 1907)
HRH Princess Ingrid (born 1910)
HRH Duke of Halland (prince Bertil born 1912)
HRH Duke of Dalarna (prince Carl Johan born 1916)
HRH Duke of Södermanland (prince Wilhelm born 1984)
HRH Duke of Småland (prince Lennart born 1909)
HRH Duke of Västmanland (prince Erik born 1989)
HRH Duke of Västergötland (prince Carl born 1861)
HRH Princess Margaretha (bron 1899)
HRH Princess Märtha (born 1901)
HRH Princess Astrid (born 1905)

HRH Duke of Östergötland (prince Carl jr born 1911)
HRH Duke of Närke (prince Eugen born 19651865)

I wonder what the list would look like if girls were included
Shouldn't HM The Queen Dowager of Denmark, born HRH princess Lovisa of Sweden, also be on that list? I would guess that she had her father's permission to marry the future king of Denmark, and thus still be in the Order of Succession, if females had been permitted then. If so, wouldn't all of her children and her grandchildren (in 1916 eight children and nine more grandchildren than the four on the list above) also be in the Order of Succession? Among those children and grandchildren would have been the king of Denmark, the king of Norway, the crown prince of Denmark (the future husband of Ingrid), the crown prince of Norway (the future husband of Märtha) and the wife of the duke of Västergötland.
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  #67  
Old 03-05-2016, 08:09 PM
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The monarchy of Sweden consists only of Carl Gustaf, his children, grandchildren and the descendants of his line. The Haga princesses and their children are not considered successors to the throne, as I understand it. Given that, I wonder if any pressure was put on Victoria, Carl Philip or Madeleine to continue the Bernadotte line when they married - Victoria because she's the heir, Carl Philip to continue the Bernadotte name in the traditional sense and Madeleine just to have another line of spares. And their choices - I wonder if one of the factors that was considered before the king and the Riksdag signed off on their joining the SRF was the ability to father or conceive a child. If that were true and if a prince or princess' choice was unable to produce an heir, would that have been a disqualifer? As I read the law an adopted child could not be a successor, only legitimate (born of a marriage) children of the blood royal.

Back to legitimacy. I think that was put into the law not-so-royal children that are the result of a hook up, fling or long term affair cannot go to court and sue for succession rights.
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  #68  
Old 09-01-2017, 02:58 AM
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on August 31th, the line of succession is as follow

1. Crown Princess Victoria, Duchess of Västergötland
2. Princess Estelle, Duchess of Östergötland
3. Prince Oscar, Duke of Skåne
4. Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland
5. Prince Alexander, Duke of Södermanland
6. Prince X
7. Princess Madeleine, Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland
8. Princess Leonore, Duchess of Gotland
9. Prince Nicolas, Duke of Ångermanland


And next year an other prince or princess will be born
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  #69  
Old 09-01-2017, 04:27 AM
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As we soon will have a 10th person in line of succession (Madeleines 3rd child), the Swedish Line of Succession is one of the healthiest since last century... thanks to the chance of law to female succession/primogeniture
BYe Bine
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  #70  
Old 09-01-2017, 04:52 AM
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For so many years it was just the kings 3 children,how it continues to grow!
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  #71  
Old 09-01-2017, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
For so many years it was just the kings 3 children,how it continues to grow!
And before that, from 1973 to 1977, there was only one person in line besides the king: prince Bertil, who didn't have any children. So I think that the king is very well aware of how serious the situation was for the monarchy just a few decades ago, and that gives him another reason to be happy for every grandchild that arrives. Personally I think that this is the reason why it was so important that Madeleines (and later on also Carl Philips) children received titles and was included in the line of succession.
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  #72  
Old 09-01-2017, 05:50 AM
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The big family, all with HRH and Princes/Princesses, which on time will marry partners who will be HRH and Princes/Princesses as well holds a risk and a certain inflation of the title.

I understand the King not wanting to make a difference in his grandchildren, but I think it was wiser to follow the example of other monarchies and limit the the flood of princelings to the children of a King or a Heir only. For an example by creating them a Count(ess) Bernadotte or whatever.

When Victoria is Queen, the royal family will then more or less look like this (more sustainable for the future):

- HM The Queen
- HRH The Prince
- HRH The Crown Princess
- HRH Prince Oscar

- HRH Prince Carl Philip
- HRH Princess Sofia
- Count Alexander
- Count XYZ

- HRH Princess Madeleine
- Mr Christopher O'Neill
- Countess Leonore
- Count Nicholas
- Count(ess) XYZ
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  #73  
Old 09-01-2017, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The big family, all with HRH and Princes/Princesses, which on time will marry partners who will be HRH and Princes/Princesses as well holds a risk and a certain inflation of the title.

I understand the King not wanting to make a difference in his grandchildren, but I think it was wiser to follow the example of other monarchies and limit the the flood of princelings to the children of a King or a Heir only. For an example by creating them a Count(ess) Bernadotte or whatever.

When Victoria is Queen, the royal family will then more or less look like this (more sustainable for the future):

- HM The Queen
- HRH The Prince
- HRH The Crown Princess
- HRH Prince Oscar

- HRH Prince Carl Philip
- HRH Princess Sofia
- Count Alexander
- Count XYZ

- HRH Princess Madeleine
- Mr Christopher O'Neill
- Countess Leonore
- Count Nicholas
- Count(ess) XYZ
The problem with you scenario is that the swedish King can not create noble Titles. He can only decide about the Title Prince/Princess and which Dukedom they will get.
The Title Count Bernadotte the Princes who lost their Title after their marriage got was created by the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg.
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  #74  
Old 09-04-2017, 08:36 AM
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on August 31th, the line of succession is as follow

1. Crown Princess Victoria, Duchess of Västergötland
2. Princess Estelle, Duchess of Östergötland
3. Prince Oscar, Duke of Skåne
4. Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland
5. Prince Alexander, Duke of Södermanland
6. Prince Gabriel, Duke of Dalarna
7. Princess Madeleine, Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland
8. Princess Leonore, Duchess of Gotland
9. Prince Nicolas, Duke of Ångermanland


And next year an other prince or princess will be born[/QUOTE]

Last time there were 9 in line for the Swedish throne were between February 20th, 1932 and march 8th, 1934

The record in with 11 princes in line for the Swedish throne
oktober 31th, 1916 -20 september 20th, 1918,
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  #75  
Old 09-04-2017, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Josefine View Post
on August 31th, the line of succession is as follow

1. Crown Princess Victoria, Duchess of Västergötland
2. Princess Estelle, Duchess of Östergötland
3. Prince Oscar, Duke of Skåne
4. Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland
5. Prince Alexander, Duke of Södermanland
6. Prince Gabriel, Duke of Dalarna
7. Princess Madeleine, Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland
8. Princess Leonore, Duchess of Gotland
9. Prince Nicolas, Duke of Ångermanland


And next year an other prince or princess will be born

I suspect Madeleine's children will eventually be dropped from the line of succession as Chris won't agree to move back permanently to Sweden when the children reach school age. Then I assume they will lose the titles of "prince/princess of Sweden", being probably known instead as "Prince/Princess [xxx] Bernadotte", without the HRH style and the respective duchy, but that is just speculative thinking on my part.

Last time there were 9 in line for the Swedish throne were between 1932 February 20th and 1934 march 8th[/QUOTE]
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  #76  
Old 09-04-2017, 10:36 AM
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I think with so many successors to the Silver Throne the Riksdag will take matters into its own hands about who gets HRH and who gets appanage for tax and other financial considerations. As of now there are seven members of the king's immediate family that do not have a chance to ascend to the throne unless there is a horrible tragedy. I can see the Riskdag saying no appanage for the Prince Family and the Princess Family with exception that Carl Philip will receive money from the government when he would have to act as regent during Estelle's minority. The law was drastically changed in 1979 to take the heir apparent title away from CP.
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  #77  
Old 09-04-2017, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I suspect Madeleine's children will eventually be dropped from the line of succession as Chris won't agree to move back permanently to Sweden when the children reach school age. Then I assume they will lose the titles of "prince/princess of Sweden", being probably known instead as "Prince/Princess [xxx] Bernadotte", without the HRH style and the respective duchy, but that is just speculative thinking on my part.

Last time there were 9 in line for the Swedish throne were between 1932 February 20th and 1934 march 8th
[/QUOTE]

There is no reason they would lose their titles simply their unnecessary now places in succession. Their duchies were bestowed by grandpa and its up to him and not parliament or any rule.

But wouldn't rule out the kids going to school in Sweden. Isn't Leonor said to be enrolled in a Swedish preschool when in Stockholm?
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  #78  
Old 09-04-2017, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The big family, all with HRH and Princes/Princesses, which on time will marry partners who will be HRH and Princes/Princesses as well holds a risk and a certain inflation of the title.

I understand the King not wanting to make a difference in his grandchildren, but I think it was wiser to follow the example of other monarchies and limit the the flood of princelings to the children of a King or a Heir only. For an example by creating them a Count(ess) Bernadotte or whatever.

When Victoria is Queen, the royal family will then more or less look like this (more sustainable for the future):

- HM The Queen
- HRH The Prince
- HRH The Crown Princess
- HRH Prince Oscar

- HRH Prince Carl Philip
- HRH Princess Sofia
- Count Alexander
- Count XYZ

- HRH Princess Madeleine
- Mr Christopher O'Neill
- Countess Leonore
- Count Nicholas
- Count(ess) XYZ
I thought that you would be happy with Prince Carl Philip having another son? Since he is the only one able to carry on the Bernadotte bloodline. Take Carl Philip away and the Bernadottes are gone. And no, Prince Daniel having added Bernadotte to his name doesn't count.
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  #79  
Old 09-04-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
And no, Prince Daniel having added Bernadotte to his name doesn't count.
Olof Daniel Westling Bernadotte, Prince of Sweden, did not transfer his middle name of Westling to his children, who are only Bernadottes.
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  #80  
Old 09-05-2017, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Olof Daniel Westling Bernadotte, Prince of Sweden, did not transfer his middle name of Westling to his children, who are only Bernadottes.
In name maybe, but by blood Oscar carries on the Westling line. Simply because his father is one.
Carl Philip and now Alexander and Gabriel are the only ones able to carry the bloodline back to the start of the House of Bernadotte.
That's as simple as it is, just look at the family tree.
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