The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > Royal House of Sweden

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #41  
Old 09-18-2008, 05:23 AM
Helen88's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Bremen, Germany
Posts: 277
I was wondering...when Carl Gustaf was young, wasn't it that way that he couldn't marry a commoner without losing his right to the throne? (I thought that was why he only married Silvia when he was king because then he could actually manage a commoner). Would it not be the same with the royal children? Or did they change this? All the king's sisters are no longer members of the Royal Family, are they? But, it just strikes me that Brigitta married a prince so shouldn't she still be in the family? Confusing...
__________________

__________________
Whatever comes, she said, cannot alter one thing. If I am a princess in rags and tatters, I can be a princess inside. It would be easy to be a princess if I were dressed in cloth of gold, but it is a great deal more of a triumpf to be one all the time when no one knows it. (F.Hogdson Burnett)
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-18-2008, 06:59 AM
Stefan's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 2,307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helen88 View Post
I was wondering...when Carl Gustaf was young, wasn't it that way that he couldn't marry a commoner without losing his right to the throne? (I thought that was why he only married Silvia when he was king because then he could actually manage a commoner). Would it not be the same with the royal children? Or did they change this? All the king's sisters are no longer members of the Royal Family, are they? But, it just strikes me that Brigitta married a prince so shouldn't she still be in the family? Confusing...
First the Constitution was changed in 1974 and now marriages to commomers are allowed. It would be strange if CArl Gustaf's children wpuld loose their succession-right by marriage to a commoner when they have a mother who was a commoner. Yes Princess Birgitta is the only of the King's sisters who is still HRH. The other 3 lost it at their marriage like the sisters of King Harald V. of Norway. The also never had sucession-rights.
__________________

__________________
Stefan

Royal Travel and Events

Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-19-2008, 06:44 PM
Helen88's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Bremen, Germany
Posts: 277
But still Madeleine's husband would not be a prince, would he? Carl Philip's wife would be a princess still?
__________________
Whatever comes, she said, cannot alter one thing. If I am a princess in rags and tatters, I can be a princess inside. It would be easy to be a princess if I were dressed in cloth of gold, but it is a great deal more of a triumpf to be one all the time when no one knows it. (F.Hogdson Burnett)
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-20-2008, 07:20 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Harpenden, United Kingdom
Posts: 9
A man marrying a princess doesn't automatically recieve a title but a woman marrying a prince would automatically recieve her husbands titles.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-20-2008, 08:23 AM
Boris's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 2,202
No. In the Bernadotte's case, this is not correct.
The question of titles for future spouses of the King's children is totally undecided as of now. It's the first time in Swedish history that all his children all remain dynasts regardless of whom they choose to marry, so this will create a new precedent under the new constitutional laws.
In this age of equal rights, it's not a given at all that a future wife of Prince Carl Phillip will become a Princess while a future husband will not become Prince.
It's very possible that titles will be given (or withheld) regardless of the sex, stressing the point of equality. It's going to be an interesting decision, completely up in the air right now.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:06 AM
Next Star's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 874
Yes I still think Carl-Philp and Madeleine will help their older sister with the royal duites and support her in her future role as queen.Now about this title situation the king is the only one who can give out titles to members of the royal family upon his
decesion to do so or not.
__________________
Patience is a virtue.

I'm head of a dynastic house no matter what others say.
Princess Kamorrissa,Countess of Welle
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-19-2009, 10:04 AM
HRHofNothing's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: somewhere in, Canada
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris View Post
No. In the Bernadotte's case, this is not correct.
The question of titles for future spouses of the King's children is totally undecided as of now. It's the first time in Swedish history that all his children all remain dynasts regardless of whom they choose to marry, so this will create a new precedent under the new constitutional laws.
In this age of equal rights, it's not a given at all that a future wife of Prince Carl Phillip will become a Princess while a future husband will not become Prince.
It's very possible that titles will be given (or withheld) regardless of the sex, stressing the point of equality. It's going to be an interesting decision, completely up in the air right now.
I cannot imagine a female spouse of Carl Philip not becoming a Princess. After all, any children they might have will be Princes and Princesses and it would be wierd if their Mother was not.

Madeline's husband will get a count of possibly a duke title but there is no way that in this day and age of downsizing of Royal families will he become a Prince...

I am sure Victoria's husband will be a Prince as heir consort but I don't think he will have his own Dukedom- probably courtesy style of Dukes of Vestergotland.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-19-2009, 03:21 PM
Kotroman's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: -, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomlyKeira View Post
But he'd never be a "commoner" as he'd be husband of a high-ranking Princess and member of the royal family.
Err, yes he would remain a commoner unless he is given the title of prince. Husband of The Princess Royal of the United Kingdom and husbands of The Duchesses of Lugo and Palma de Mallorca are not royal, regardless of the fact that each of them is married to a daughter of a sovereign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by randomlyKeira View Post
Her children might have subsidary titles, wouldn't they? I'm not sure what the titles are in Sweeden, but in England a Duchess (in her own right) would still have her children with the title of Lady and subsidary title for the heir to the title. Correct me please, anyone, as I'm not sure how it works in Sweeden.
*Succession to British dukedoms follows Salic law, so there cannot be a duchess in her own right unless the Sovereign grants a special remainder in default of male issue. Futhermore, British peerage titles are substantive, while Princess Madelaine's title is a mere courtesy title. In this case, Madelaine can't be compared to a peeress - she can be compared, however, to a peer's daughter, whose children would hold no courtesy title if their father was a commoner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris View Post
It's very possible that titles will be given (or withheld) regardless of the sex, stressing the point of equality. It's going to be an interesting decision, completely up in the air right now.
Unfortunatly, I believe this not far from the truth. This "gender equality" issue slowly transforms the system of titles and styles into something unrecognizable. Who knows, perhaps wife of the next King of Sweden (Victoria's son, for example) won't be queen at all. "His Majesty The King and Mrs Bernadotte". I think that's sad.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-19-2009, 06:29 PM
avrilo's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mexico city, Mexico
Posts: 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotroman View Post
Err, yes he would remain a commoner unless he is given the title of prince. Husband of The Princess Royal of the United Kingdom and husbands of The Duchesses of Lugo and Palma de Mallorca are not royal, regardless of the fact that each of them is married to a daughter of a sovereign.

Err nop, that is not correct. Iñaki Undargarin and Jaime the Marichalar ARE Dukes of Palma and Lugo respectively and referred to as their excelencies.Their children hold no title

They are also refered to as DON which means of the noble origen. I believe Spain is particular case, because their wives are NOT PRINCESSES of Spain but Infantas of Spain and an infante is not exactly the same than a princess.

I don't think Spain is a good reference to guide us over what will happen in Sweden.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-20-2009, 05:35 AM
Kotroman's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: -, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 463

I didn't say they were titleless. I said they are not royal - they are not Infantes of Spain, are they? They hold a noble title, but so does a number of Spanish nobles which doesn't make them royal.

As for the title of infant(a), the difference exists in Spain and Portugal only. In English usage, Spanish infanta ranks like any other European royal princess which makes the two titles comparable.

I didn't say that Sweden will follow Spain. I just used the Spanish example to explain that husband of a royal woman doesn't automatically become royal himself.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 02-20-2009, 12:58 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hiawassee, United States
Posts: 614
Well if nothing else it should be interesting to see what the King does in the future
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 02-24-2009, 03:34 PM
HRHofNothing's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: somewhere in, Canada
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyndaW View Post
Well if nothing else it should be interesting to see what the King does in the future
You did not have to wait long for your answer

With Daniel sharing Victoria's title and it not being clear if he is going to be a HRH, there is no way a future hubby of Madde is going to get anything. He will have to be content to be a Mr.

I would still be surprised if Carl Philip's wife did not get a HRH Princess.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 02-24-2009, 05:18 PM
linneatherose's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bowling Green, United States
Posts: 88
I dont know. I dont think Emma would get any special title if jonas didn't. I think they'll both get small titles- but you never know.. Isnt the king's sister's husband a Mr.??
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 02-25-2009, 01:43 PM
HRHofNothing's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: somewhere in, Canada
Posts: 208
Royal "Duties"

With the addition of a Prince to the Swedish Royal Family soon, I was thinking about Royal engagements that the family performs.

The Swedish Monarch seems to have no political role beyond giving a speech at the opening of parliament every year, so all of his and the Queen Slyiva's engagement are of a social-ceremonial nature. They keep a pretty decent schedule- not overloaded by any means. Crown Princess Victoria has her own schedule of duties which although of a significant number do not consume all of her time either. Carl Philip and Madeline also have some royal engagements but no where near a full schedule. Princess Lilian because of her advanced age barely performs any duties. There are no other HRH members of the Royal family.

Keeping this in mind I wans wondering what Royal Duties would be left for the new spouses to perform.

HRH Prince Daniel: Accompany CP Victoria on her various engagements, pick up a few patronages (possibly fitness related) and take over some duties from Carl-Philip. Enough for a relatively light full time schedule.

HRH Princess Carl-Philip: She will also take part in the somewhat reduced schedule of duties that her husband will be performing. A few patronages of her own. I just don't see a scenario where she won't become a HRH, so she will have to peform some duties.

Princess Madeline's Husband: None. I really dont think that after the entry of the above two there will be many royal engagements left for Madeline to perform- let alone her husband.

What does everyone think of my analysis- agree or disagree?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 02-27-2009, 04:54 AM
Kotroman's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: -, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 463
Yes, but The King's sisters' marriages were not considered equal.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 02-28-2009, 12:26 PM
linneatherose's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bowling Green, United States
Posts: 88
Right, but Jonas, Emma and Daniel are not equals to Victoria, CP and Madeleine either, are they?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 03-01-2009, 05:30 AM
Stefan's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 2,307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotroman View Post
Yes, but The King's sisters' marriages were not considered equal.
Princess Birgitta married equal as she married a german Prince.
__________________
Stefan

Royal Travel and Events

Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 03-01-2009, 05:45 AM
Kotroman's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: -, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 463

I didn't say all of the King's sisters. I meant only those whose husbands are merely misters.

Quote:
Right, but Jonas, Emma and Daniel are not equals to Victoria, CP and Madeleine either, are they?
As you can see, equal marriages are no longer recquired in Sweden (and most of the other European countries). The Queen of Sweden herself was not equal to her husband... until they married

Anyway, wife of The Duke of Värmland will surely be Duchess of Värmland (and possibly Princess of Sweden). Husband of The Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland will probably be Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland (since it was announced that husband of The Duchess of Västergötland will be Duke of Västergötland). I also suppose that the future Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland will also be a Prince of Sweden if the future Duchess of Värmland gets the title of Princess of Sweden. I think that the future Duchess of Värmland and Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland should both get the Swedish princely titles because wives of princes are naturally princesses and husbands of princesses should become princes because of equal primogeniture.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 08-23-2010, 08:13 PM
sirhon11234's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 2,464
What would the titles of Madeline and Carl-Phillip's children be?
__________________
"I think the biggest disease the world suffers from in this day and age is the disease of people feeling unloved."
Diana, the Princess of Wales
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 08-23-2010, 08:50 PM
rob2008's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 124
Carl-Phillip was born to be king. His title in the future should really be King and his sisters princesses. They shouldnt allow marriage to commoners.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Christenings of Victoria, Carl Philip and Madeleine Josefine Royal House of Sweden 48 06-09-2014 05:18 AM
'Young and Royal' Interview with Victoria, Carl Philip and Madeleine; 2005 Josefine Royal House of Sweden 27 01-27-2013 04:48 AM
Confirmations: Victoria - 1992, Carl Philip - 1994, Madeleine - 1997 Josefine Royal House of Sweden 23 04-27-2011 06:39 AM
Graduations of Victoria, Carl Philip & Madeleine Yennie Royal House of Sweden 65 09-13-2010 10:58 PM
Can Carl Philip and Madeleine Marry before Victoria? Royal Darkness Royal House of Sweden 30 03-21-2009 12:45 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince felipe crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri infanta cristina infanta elena infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king abdullah king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg ottoman pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince joachim prince laurent prince pieter-christiaan princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess elisabeth princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess mary princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia spain state visit wedding william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:55 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]