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  #21  
Old 11-01-2006, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie
I dont think so, then why are Birgitta called princess Birgitta and her sisters princess Christina, Mrs Magnusson and so on. It has to has something to do with the title?!
Christina, Margareta and Desiree are not members of the royal house (is that the correct name in english?) either. But they are ofcourse still a part of the royal family

here is what it says on Wikipedia;
Nära kungafamiljen finns också kungens resterande systrar, dessa räknas dock inte till Kungl .Huset, utan är endast medlemmar av släkten Bernadotte. Dessa systrar gifte sig alla med icke-kungliga personer, och på den tiden var situationen mycket prekär då kvinnliga kungligheter inte ens hade rätt att vara med i successionen till kronan, och förlorade därmed sina kungliga titlar. Samtliga har dock tilldelats personliga, icke-ärftliga, prinsesstitlar
I was talking about Cristina, Elena and Joachim :P. I was asking if it couldn´t be like in Spain and in Denmark
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  #22  
Old 11-01-2006, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avrilo
I was talking about Cristina, Elena and Joachim :P. I was asking if it couldn´t be like in Spain and in Denmark
ok, that explains alot
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  #23  
Old 11-01-2006, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie
here is what it says on Wikipedia;
Nära kungafamiljen finns också kungens resterande systrar, dessa räknas dock inte till Kungl .Huset, utan är endast medlemmar av släkten Bernadotte. Dessa systrar gifte sig alla med icke-kungliga personer, och på den tiden var situationen mycket prekär då kvinnliga kungligheter inte ens hade rätt att vara med i successionen till kronan, och förlorade därmed sina kungliga titlar. Samtliga har dock tilldelats personliga, icke-ärftliga, prinsesstitlar
But that's incorrect. Birgitta got married to a prince of Hohenzollern, so she actually made an equal marriage. But she was the only one of five siblings to do so.
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  #24  
Old 11-02-2006, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furienna
But that's incorrect. Birgitta got married to a prince of Hohenzollern, so she actually made an equal marriage. But she was the only one of five siblings to do so.
The text is referring to the other three sisters; Nära kungafamiljen finns också kungens resterande systrar.

Princess Birgitta is the only "real" princess, the other ones have the "princess" only as a part of their name and the title cannot be passed on
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  #25  
Old 11-02-2006, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avrilo
I was talking about Cristina, Elena and Joachim :P. I was asking if it couldn´t be like in Spain and in Denmark
The situation in Denmark and Sweden is quite similar, actually - to those in the same situation. Carl Philip & Joachim are in the same situation, title-wise. Women take their husband's titles, after all. If either Carl Philip or Joachim married without the monarch's permission, they would be "degraded", if I've understood correctly - Carl Philip to Count Bernadotte and Joachim to Count of Rosenborg.

The situation with Princess Benedikte, who is still HRH, is the same as Princess Birgitta - both of whom married German princes. (So-called equal marriages.)

The "Princess X, Mrs. Y" pattern set up in Sweden, seems similar to the one King Haakon of Norway set up for his granddaughters, when Ragnhild got married in 1953.
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  #26  
Old 11-11-2006, 05:28 AM
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title after marriage - what is possible for the king to grant?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by avrilo
"I was talking about Cristina, Elena and Joachim :P. I was asking if it couldn´t be like in Spain and in Denmark"


"The situation in Denmark and Sweden is quite similar, actually - to those in the same situation. Carl Philip & Joachim are in the same situation, title-wise. Women take their husband's titles, after all. If either Carl Philip or Joachim married without the monarch's permission, they would be "degraded", if I've understood correctly - Carl Philip to Count Bernadotte and Joachim to Count of Rosenborg. "
Actually, if HKH Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland entered into an unapproved marriage he's become Mr Carl Philip Edmund Bertil Bernadotte. HM King Carl XVI Gustav doesn't have the power to create noble titles and therefore can not make his son Count Bernadotte of Wisborg. This title is actually a Luxembourgian County title.

However I'm not sure whether HM can make any of his children that make unapproved marriages Prince/ss Bernadotte, like HM King Oscar II made his second son Oscar Prince Bernadotte upon his unequal marriage. Note this was a personal title only, shared by Prince Oscar and his wife. Until the creation of the luxembourg title a few years later their children were plain Master/Miss <blank> Bernadotte. Indeed this may be the way that the King may wish to go in this situation for unapproved marriages, retaining a personal title for his children and then no title for grand children. It's very similar to his three sisters.

I personally think that the best way would be an adaptation of the Danish and British systems. Have the children of the monarch as HRH (and,regardless of gender, their spouses), but the grandchildren of those other than the heir HH (again with their spouse sharing their title) and then their children no title. A gradual dropping of titles over the generations.
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  #27  
Old 11-11-2006, 06:35 AM
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varying consequenses of unequal/unapproved marriage - who kept what and why?

Following on from my post above I think it's interesting to reflect on those that made unequal and/or unapproved marriages. (They seem to be different things.)

Looking at the examples...

The first was HKH Prince Oscar, Duke of Gotland was made Prince Bernadotte (personal style) upon his unequal marriage in 1888, then in 1892, he was given the hereditary title Count of Wisborg by his uncle Grand Duke Adolphe of Luxembourg. Prince Bernadotte kept the Seraphim and all his Swedish orders. (I assume that the marriage must have had some level of approval for him to retain these and be made Prince Bernadotte.)

Next was Prince Lennart, Duke of Småland who by his unequal and unapproved marriage on March 11, 1932 he was subsequentially stripped of his title and became Mr. Lennart Bernadotte. (He was stripped of the Seraphim and all of his Swedish orders on the same day as his cousin Sigvard lost his.)

Two years later Prince Sigvard, Duke of Uppland married commoner Erica Patzek and because it was an unequal match for a Swedish Prince, whether or not having acquired consent for the marriage from the monarch, he lost his titles (and orders) and became Mr Sigvard Bernadotte.

In 1937, Prince Carl, Duke of Östergötland married Countess Elsa von Rosen and relinquish his succession rights and his royal titles due to his unequal marriage. His brother-in-law King Léopold III of the Belgians conferred upon him the title Prince Bernadotte in the Belgian nobility on the same day as the wedding (with the right to the title of Count or Countess for his male-line descendants). Prince Carl must have had some sort off apprival for his marraige as he also kept all his Swedish orders upon his marriage (he would eventually be stripped on them by King Gustaf VI Adolf in 1961 over the scandal known as "The Huseby affair").

Then in 1946 Prince Carl Johan, Duke of Dalarna made an unequal and unapproved marriage, losing all his titles, the Seraphim and his orders.

Messers Lennart, Sigvard and Carl Johan Bernadotte were all created hereditary Counts af Wisborg by Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg on July 2, 1951. All three were also readmitted back to the Grand Cross of the Order of the Polar Star (but not the Seraphim or the Sword ) in 1952 (the same year their brother Prince Bertil was given the Grand Cross of the Vasa, the fourth Swedish Order).

The current King's four sister were never held succession rights. All recevied the Seraphim when it was opened to women on 22 March 1952 (that year again! Gustaf VI Adolf certainly honoured his family that year!).

Three of them ( Princess Margaretha, Princess Désirée & Princess Christina) made unequal marriages and lost their HKH status, but retained the seraphim. Their husband would all be made commanders (rank 2) of the order of the vasa.

The fourth Princess Birgitta of Sweden made an equal marriage to HSH Johann Georg, Prince of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (who, with his elder brother Prince Friedrich, were given the Seraphim two days before the wedding).

It's interesting that those who's marriage has some form of approval - if still unequal - retain the seraphim, but those who made both unequal and unapproved unions were stripped of it and their other orders.
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  #28  
Old 11-11-2006, 11:49 PM
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IF CP Victoria would lose as right succession of Crown Princess will given to Prince Carl Phillip or Princess Madeline because she dating commoner or King would give CP Victoria to become Queen of Sweden one days or not i dont know we have wait and see what happened when Victoria got married one days
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  #29  
Old 11-12-2006, 12:25 AM
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Well, the King married a commoner, so he would hardly disqualify his eldest daughter for doing the same thing!
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  #30  
Old 11-12-2006, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davo
It's interesting that those who's marriage has some form of approval - if still unequal - retain the seraphim, but those who made both unequal and unapproved unions were stripped of it and their other orders.
The approved marriages seem to have been to aristocratic women, who even though they weren't princesses still weren't complete commoners. The unapproved marriages were to "complete commoners".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Well, the King married a commoner, so he would hardly disqualify his eldest daughter for doing the same thing!
I have to agree with this. Also, it's a different time now. Princes and princesses can marry any commoners without losing their titles these days.
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  #31  
Old 11-28-2006, 11:42 AM
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I know that the members of the Swedish royal family might lose their royal titles because they marry commoner. But they might still lose their royal title by marrying a noble adleast they hold a title in their own right. Why? can't the king create their spouse a prince or princess maybe even duke or duchess.
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  #32  
Old 11-28-2006, 04:39 PM
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Well, considering the fact that Carl Gustaf gave his uncle, Prince Bertil, permission to marry a commoner divorcee (Princess Lillian) and allowed him to keep his royal title, I think it's almost certain that everyone of the Swedish royal kids will get to keep their royal titles, regardless of who they marry.
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  #33  
Old 12-30-2006, 09:35 PM
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That is good to allow to follow their heart and marry the person regardless in they hold a title or not. I hope that this will conitnue letting them marry for love and not for duty.
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  #34  
Old 07-29-2007, 01:11 PM
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Royal Roles for the Future Spouses of Carl Philip and Madeleine

If the both will marry, will Emma Pernald than be styled HRH Princess Emma of Sweden and will their children also bear royal titles and will Princess Madeleine after getting a wife still be HRH Princess Madeleine of Sweden, Mrs. Bergström or will Jonas get the title of a Prince of Sweden? And what about the children of Madeleine and Jonas?
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  #35  
Old 08-02-2007, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by principessa View Post
If the both will marry, will Emma Pernald than be styled HRH Princess Emma of Sweden and will their children also bear royal titles and will Princess Madeleine after getting a wife still be HRH Princess Madeleine of Sweden, Mrs. Bergström or will Jonas get the title of a Prince of Sweden? And what about the children of Madeleine and Jonas?
If you look at other Royal families when a Prince gets married then his wife will take on a title but if a man marries into the Royal family he is still just Mr, unless he is going to be married to a Queen. For Madeleine to loose her HRH it would likely be up to her and only if she wanted to start business activities like the Norweigan Princess
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  #36  
Old 08-28-2007, 08:21 AM
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Unless Madeleine wants to give up her HRH then she will keep it and Emma will take a title on. With the children they usually take after the father side with titles so Carl-Philip children would be princess or prince but Madeleine would have a title unless the King bestows one on them personally.
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  #37  
Old 05-26-2008, 06:36 AM
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Royal Roles for the Future Spouses of Carl Philip and Madeleine

What royal roles if any, would the future spouses of these two younger royals have within sweden?

I magine that since Carl Philip's wife will be a Princess of Sweden she would have some royal duties, wheras Madeline's husband (who probably will remain a commoner) will have none.
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  #38  
Old 05-26-2008, 06:52 AM
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Won't they be supporing the crownprince couple at some important royal events? Why would Madeline's husband remain a commoner, would he be granted no royal title at all, I mean maybe not prince then, but count or duke or something?
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  #39  
Old 05-28-2008, 05:25 AM
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Won't they be supporing the crownprince couple at some important royal events? Why would Madeline's husband remain a commoner, would he be granted no royal title at all, I mean maybe not prince then, but count or duke or something?
There is debate as to wether Victoria's husband will be granted a title so I really doubt is Madeline's husband will have a title.
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  #40  
Old 06-16-2008, 08:06 PM
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I think that it woudl be abit of an insult, and probably a little degrading if Victoria's husband didn't get a title. He'd be consort, so that seems sort of odd that he woudln't have a title.

Madeline's husband would probably be offered a title, but it would be up to him if he took it or not. But he'd never be a "commoner" as he'd be husband of a high-ranking Princess and member of the royal family. Her children might have subsidary titles, wouldn't they? I'm not sure what the titles are in Sweeden, but in England a Duchess (in her own right) would still have her children with the title of Lady and subsidary title for the heir to the title. Correct me please, anyone, as I'm not sure how it works in Sweeden.
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