The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #281  
Old 10-05-2016, 08:13 AM
Blog Real's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 1,826
I hope the Swedish monarchy is not abolished. Think the monarchy in Sweden are in danger?
__________________

__________________
Acclamation Manuel II of Portugal: 6 May 1908
Reply With Quote
  #282  
Old 10-05-2016, 08:18 AM
Marty91charmed's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Near Verona and Venice, Italy
Posts: 6,063
I don't know, but I get the feeling that Princess eìEstelle won't see the throne. Jmo.
__________________

__________________
"Yet, walking free upon her own estate
Still,in her solitude, she is the Queen".
Reply With Quote
  #283  
Old 10-05-2016, 08:27 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 2,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Partiföreträdare vill avskaffa monarkin | Nyheter | Expressen

Does this report in Expressen mean that all Swedish political parties intend to rid Sweden of the monarchy? I hope not!
No, it doesn't. That motion is introduced every year in the Riksdag. The only difference is that the motion is now backed by a minority of MPs in all parties.

The important point is, however, that 65 % of the Swedish people still want to retain the monarchy and only 25 % want to abolish it, with the remaining 10 % falling in the "don't know" category. That is actually very low popular support for any meaningful republican move to succeed.
Reply With Quote
  #284  
Old 10-05-2016, 08:34 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Haha, I see you don't understand Sweden one bit. I think them marrying "normal swedes" has actually saved the monarchy.
When you think a minute longer about it you know that I have touched a very essential question: what is actually a royal family. If Swedes are so hallelujah about the monarchy, we would have seen better statistics, don't we? And... when all Swedes are so happy with non-royals, I have the ultimate instrument to boost their happiness even more: elect your own best candidate from Örebrö, Djursholm or Danderyd to become President of Sweden.
Reply With Quote
  #285  
Old 10-05-2016, 08:37 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
I hope the Swedish monarchy is not abolished. Think the monarchy in Sweden are in danger?
All monarchies are in danger. When Sweden or Luxembourg hold a referendum, you will see a domino-effect in all other monarchies. "Why can the Swedes have a say about their constitution? And why have we no say about our (Belgian, Spanish, Dutch, etc.) constitution?"
Reply With Quote
  #286  
Old 10-05-2016, 08:40 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 2,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The underlying message is that the gates of the palace are wide open. While people have to apply for jobs, show diplomas and certificates, a curriculum from here to nowhere and compete for a "normal" jobs, it looks like for becoming royal nothing is needed. Royal or noble birth? Spotless past? Respectable careers? Pffff.... come on... this is 2016: no any requirement needed to become "Prince(ss)". Welcome in the royal family! (And this counts for almost all royal families, all of them will be wiped out in the coming decades).
As pointed out before, that is not true. Actually, all royal marriages in Sweden have to be approved by the monarch personally and by the government. In other countries like the Netherlands, they have to be approved by parliament.

In other words, royal brides and grooms are actually subject to very strict vetting before they can join the royal family. When the bride's or groom's past is deemed to be not "spotless" as you said, chances are that consent to the marriage may be withdrawn, as it happened with Mabel in the Netherlands.

Of course, a prince or princess may simply ignore that vetting and marry anyway despite lack of consent from the appropriate authorities, but that means losing his/her succession rights and his/her future descendants' succession rights.
Reply With Quote
  #287  
Old 10-05-2016, 08:46 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
As pointed out before, that is not true. Actually, all royal marriages in Sweden have to be approved by the monarch personally and by the government. In other countries like the Netherlands, they have to be approved by parliament.

In other words, royal brides and grooms are actually subject to very strict vetting before they can join the royal family. Of course, a prince or princess may simply ignore that vetting and marry anyway despite lack of consent from the appropriate authorities, but that means losing his/her succession rights and his/her future descendants' succession rights.
Nice in theory. Means nothing in practice. King Carl XVI Gustaf could not marry a Swede and/or a commoner. No problem. Scratch scratch. Voilà. He could marry that hostess he met at the Olympic Games. For so far the "very strict vetting".
Reply With Quote
  #288  
Old 10-05-2016, 09:56 AM
Queen Claude's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA, United States
Posts: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Haha, I see you don't understand Sweden one bit. I think them marrying "normal swedes" has actually saved the monarchy.
I agree. I don't think that there are any hard or fast rules these days. Marrying a foreigner, whether royal or not, is possible but I think that when a potential royal marriage is being evaluated, and the pluses and minuses are being tabulated, the intended being the same nationality as the royal goes in the plus column.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Nice in theory. Means nothing in practice. King Carl XVI Gustaf could not marry a Swede and/or a commoner. No problem. Scratch scratch. Voilà. He could marry that hostess he met at the Olympic Games. For so far the "very strict vetting".
King Carl XVI Gustaf could not marry a Swede or commoner because his grandfather, who was born in the 19th century, disapproved of unequal marriages. On the one hand you may have a point that Silvia was not vetted that strongly because it was a unique situation where the marriage needed approval of the monarch himself, so as monarch King Carl XVI Gustaf was the one who approved his own choice of a wife/consort and also overturned the rules regarding unequal marriages. But then again I still think his choice had to be approved by the government, which it was, and Silvia has more than proven herself as a consort.

By the way is being a hostess at the Olympics really a bad thing? I would think that a lot of "vetting" went into selecting the men and women who serve as hosts and hostess for the Olympic games.
Reply With Quote
  #289  
Old 10-05-2016, 10:06 AM
LadyFinn's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southwest, Finland
Posts: 24,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
In essence the royal families are eroding their very own "being royal" from within. Was it before King Carl XVI Gustaf an absolute no-no to marry a fellow Swede or a commoner (both actions did lead to the loss of the royal status). The (intended) marriages with Daniel Westling, Jonas Bergström and Sofia Hellqvist show that any Swede can become "royal". Suddenly that sporty dude from Örebrö, that whizzkid classmate from Djursholm or the fellow teammate from Danderyd become a "Royal Highness", get a Seraphim hanged around their shoulders, people bow and mumble "Royal Highness" and their babies are suddenly Dukes and Duchesses from Nowhere and Everywhere. It all turns out into a vaudeville. It is a pure eroding of the core fundaments of what a royal family actually is.

The distance to the royal family and "the street" has totally disappeared:

You are that hunky fitness trainer?
You can become Prince of Sweden and be father of the next Queen!
No problem.
Yes, Daniel was once a fitness trainer. But he had started his own company already in 1997 and later went on to run his own gym, Master Training, together with a colleague. Daniel was the ceo and Member of the Board of Master Training. In 2006, he started the company Balance, a gym featuring a new concept. He was the ceo of and member of the Board of Balance too. He still owns the shares in these companies.
Even though he was once a fitness trainer, even a boyfriend of the crown princess has the right to try to go further in his career and not to stay as a fitness trainer for the rest of his life. And when he has done so, he should be addressed with his right title, the ceo of his gyms. And as we have now seen from his work as a prince, Daniel is very ambitious, innovative and hardworking, so his work with his gyms is no surprise.

Here is the motion made to the Riksdag.
Dags att gå vidare från Torekovkompromissen Motion 2016_17_1051 av Niclas Malmberg m.fl. (MP, V, L, C, S) - Riksdagen

And I agree with hernameispekka, Silvia and Daniel have been a big help to the monarchy and will be in the future too. And I agree with Muhler's opinion about Victoria and Daniel.
Reply With Quote
  #290  
Old 10-05-2016, 10:22 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: ***, Sweden
Posts: 1,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Yes, Daniel was once a fitness trainer. But he had started his own company already in 1997 and later went on to run his own gym, Master Training, together with a colleague. Daniel was the ceo and Member of the Board of Master Training. In 2006, he started the company Balance, a gym featuring a new concept. He was the ceo of and member of the Board of Balance too. He still owns the shares in these companies.
Even though he was once a fitness trainer, even a boyfriend of the crown princess has the right to try to go further in his career and not to stay as a fitness trainer for the rest of his life. And when he has done so, he should be addressed with his right title, the ceo of his gyms. And as we have now seen from his work as a prince, Daniel is very ambitious, innovative and hardworking, so his work with his gyms is no surprise.

Here is the motion made to the Riksdag.
Dags att gå vidare från Torekovkompromissen Motion 2016_17_1051 av Niclas Malmberg m.fl. (MP, V, L, C, S) - Riksdagen

And I agree with hernameispekka, Silvia and Daniel have been a big help to the monarchy and will be in the future too. And I agree with Muhler's opinion about Victoria and Daniel.
Exactly. Plus, they cannot marry swedish nobility since no such thing exists anymore, so if they were to marry "high up enough" they would have to marry other nationalities. If that is the case, I am almost certain that a "normal swede" ranks higher in peoples mind than a foreign nobility. Any whiff of a noble+royal marriage here in Sweden would prompt arranged marriage speculations and "they don't think we're good enough" sentiments and that would be way harder on the monarchy. In sweden, while they are technically above others, it is very very important that they don't seem to think themselves above others.
Reply With Quote
  #291  
Old 10-05-2016, 10:26 AM
Queen Claude's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA, United States
Posts: 519
Even though it is a different country, I think that it is interesting that Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh re-classified himself away from being a prince of Greece and Denmark to being Philip Mountbatten, a British commoner in order to make himself more acceptable as the intended husband of the then Princess Elizabeth.
Reply With Quote
  #292  
Old 10-05-2016, 01:58 PM
Madame Verseau's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Louisville, United States
Posts: 457
If there were a strict vetting process Sofia wouldn't have been allowed in. It's not just the nude pictures (an unseemly image of a representative of a country, elected or not) but the accusation of fraud with Project Playground (funneling those donations in a personal bank account) would warrant an investigation. I think the Riksdag let Sofia slide is because Carl Philip is never going to be king.
Reply With Quote
  #293  
Old 10-05-2016, 02:06 PM
Queen Claude's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA, United States
Posts: 519
There have been no credible accusations of fraud against Sofia, at least not that I am aware of.
Reply With Quote
  #294  
Old 10-05-2016, 02:10 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: ***, Sweden
Posts: 1,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
If there were a strict vetting process Sofia wouldn't have been allowed in. It's not just the nude pictures (an unseemly image of a representative of a country, elected or not) but the accusation of fraud with Project Playground (funneling those donations in a personal bank account) would warrant an investigation. I think the Riksdag let Sofia slide is because Carl Philip is never going to be king.
Again, you don't know Sweden. We were among the first country with nudity in movies. It's not a big deal here. On your other claims, I've heard nothing so...
Reply With Quote
  #295  
Old 10-05-2016, 02:36 PM
Blog Real's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 1,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
All monarchies are in danger. When Sweden or Luxembourg hold a referendum, you will see a domino-effect in all other monarchies. "Why can the Swedes have a say about their constitution? And why have we no say about our (Belgian, Spanish, Dutch, etc.) constitution?"
I don't think that monarchies are all in danger. That's an exaggeration. In Luxembourg the petition asking for a referendum should not have enough signatures, because the monarchy in this country is also very popular. In Belgium and the Netherlands there are no major movements, neither politicians nor of other organizations, for ending the monarchy. In Spain things has also calmed down and Felipe VI is now very popular. In the United Kingdom, in Denmark and Norway the monarchical regime continues to be very popular.
In Sweden despite the wishes of some members of parties in ending the monarchy, as far as I know the monarchy continues to have great support from the people. I hope they don't end up with the monarchy.
__________________
Acclamation Manuel II of Portugal: 6 May 1908
Reply With Quote
  #296  
Old 10-05-2016, 04:04 PM
moby's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 946
Years ago, I'd have agreed that monarchies throughout the world are in danger. Nowadays, I'm more cautious. There's a threat to the EU, the UK has become isolationist, right-wing parties are on the rise--these are international relations developments that people, during the 90s, would not have predicted will happen in 2016. Francis Fukuyama even wrote about the End of History, which was basically a reflection of optimism at the end of the Cold War. Now Russia and China are flexing their muscles more than ever.

If monarchical institutions are just elements in political science and international relations, history suggests that they will survive. There might be moments when they're not as popular, like present times, but in the future, bet it on it that political events will come into play that would call for stronger monarchies and more powerful monarchs. Might not be in the next 5 years, but it will happen.

As to the vetting process of future members of royal families, I've always felt that they should be screened in the same way a government screens their aspiring diplomats. If in Sweden its Ministry of Foreign Affairs wouldn't accept an applicant to the Foreign Service because of his or her past--as a nude model, links to mobsters, etc--then refuse to approve of a Royal's marriage to a person with similar background. If nudity is not a problem in the Foreign Service, then all right. But if the government thinks that a former nude model would not be the best representative of Sweden, then it definitely should use the same standards for future members of the RF.

Sorry if I segue on the topic a bit.
__________________
It seems to me that origination is perhaps instinct, not intellect. -Joe Strummer

Reply With Quote
  #297  
Old 10-05-2016, 04:22 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 7,286
[As to the vetting process of future members of royal families, I've always felt that they should be screened in the same way a government screens their aspiring diplomats. If in Sweden its Ministry of Foreign Affairs wouldn't accept an applicant to the Foreign Service because of his or her past--as a nude model, links to mobsters, etc--then refuse to approve of a Royal's marriage to a person with similar background. If nudity is not a problem in the Foreign Service, then all right. But if the government thinks that a former nude model would not be the best representative of Sweden, then it definitely should use the same standards for future members of the RF.]

moby your post deserves a standing ovation, imo.

Very well stated indeed!
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice". Martin Luther King Jr. 1929-1968
Reply With Quote
  #298  
Old 10-05-2016, 04:35 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,538
Look back in history and you will see any number of 'commoners' or people of 'lower rank' marrying into Royal Families. Its always happened and likely always will, it keeps the monarchy from being insular.
Reply With Quote
  #299  
Old 10-05-2016, 04:55 PM
xenobia's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Near the artic circle, Sweden
Posts: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Haha, I see you don't understand Sweden one bit. I think them marrying "normal swedes" has actually saved the monarchy.
I so much totally agree with this. Could marrying commoners have been the downfall of the monarchy in, lets say Belgium? Perhaps. But here, I would say that it saved the monarchy. Where would the king be without Silvia? And Victoria without Daniel? Princess Lillian was also a very popular person. The royal spouse that people may be a little hesitant towards is Chris. I think the general feeling among people is that we don't know him, and he doesn't seem interested in us. I hope he proves everyone wrong.

So if anything, the people who married into the royal family helped them become more popular, in their own way. Had (as an example) Victoria married someone from a foreign royal family, I'm not sure that he would have been as popular.
Reply With Quote
  #300  
Old 10-05-2016, 05:00 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,038
The monarchy here in Sweden is not in more danger than any other monarchy in any other country.

Those "motions" from a few left wing - middle Mp:s are coming every year since many years. Nothing will happen until the 2 big parties, The Social Democrats and the Moderate Party will do something. And they have way too much to loose to even try to abolish the monarchy.

This is nothing to worry about.

What would defenitely have been the "death" of the swedish monarchy would be if the Prince's and Princesses would not be allowed to marry out of love and forced to marry another royal or even worse titular royal/nobility. That would be the most effective way to destroy the public support of the monarchy in Sweden. Anyone who says anything else can't be from Sweden because this is simply how it works here.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
king carl xvi gustav, sweden


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Future of the Spanish Monarchy TODOI Royal Family of Spain 1307 Today 06:39 AM
The Monarchy in Greece Fireweaver The Royal Family of Greece 309 10-31-2016 05:54 PM
Popularity of the Royal Family in Norway Mandy Royal House of Norway 127 07-14-2014 10:34 PM
The Monarchy And The Media Alexandria Royal House of Norway 12 04-08-2004 04:06 PM




Popular Tags
best outfit birthday carl gustaf catherine chris o'neill crown princess mary crown princess victoria current events denmark duchess of cambridge gala dress duke of edinburgh fashion poll general news hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta margarita infanta sofia iñaki urdangarín king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia liechtenstein love monarchy monarchy versus republic news november november 2016 october 2016 picture of the week prince alexander prince carl philip prince daniel prince felix prince gabriel prince harry prince nicholas prince oscar princess alexandra of luxembourg princess claire of luxembourg princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess of asturias princess sofia princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen silvia state visit stephanie sweden swedish royal family victoria visit to canada



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:00 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises