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  #241  
Old 10-08-2015, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Its difficult to imagine a better Crown Princess than Victoria. No doubt she helps the overall institution of monarchy within Sweden
The attributed popularity seems not translate in approval ratings which is once more an illustration that having a good opinion of a person (Victoria in this case) not necessarily means being in favour of a monarchical system of state.

I think many Parliamentarians have a very good opinion of Victoria but nevertheless support the democratic principle of an elected head of state.

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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I totally agree with you. If the monarchy was abolished, and we had a president instead, I have no doubt that she would win the presidential election if she was a candidate :)
Victoria's popularity also is vested in her neutrality. Du moment she runs for the presidency and has to debate with Stefan Löfven (Labour), Jessica Polfjärd (Moderates) or Gustav Fridolin (Greens) about issues like Sweden's entry to the NATO, about the enormous influx of immigrants and the effects on society, about cuts in the Swedish welfare state, about the reforms in the EU and the Schengen zone, about the entry into he common currency (Euro), about God-knows-what, then she looses her angelic perfectly impartial face and becomes a politician like any other. People saying "she will win presidential elections!" judge her for what she is now: a pretty lady with a cute toddler and a total unknown political stance. But that is not how someone enters elections and wins these...
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  #242  
Old 10-08-2015, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Victoria's popularity also is vested in her neutrality. Du moment she runs for the presidency and has to debate with Stefan Löfven (Labour), Jessica Polfjärd (Moderates) or Gustav Fridolin (Greens) about issues like Sweden's entry to the NATO, about the enormous influx of immigrants and the effects on society, about cuts in the Swedish welfare state, about the reforms in the EU and the Schengen zone, about the entry into he common currency (Euro), about God-knows-what, then she looses her angelic perfectly impartial face and becomes a politician like any other. People saying "she will win presidential elections!" judge her for what she is now: a pretty lady with a cute toddler and a total unknown political stance. But that is not how someone enters elections and wins these...

You make very good points. However, it also reinforces what I wrote before: would the Swedes prefer to have an elected partisan president with lots of personal powers as in neighboring Finland when they can have instead a powerless, perfectly neutral and non-controversial Head of State with an "angelic impartial face" and a nice looking family ? That is what makes me skeptical about the Swedish republican movement.

Personally, I think that, if Sweden ever becomes a republic, it would make more sense to have a German-like president, who would also be politically neutral, than a Finnish-like one.
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  #243  
Old 10-08-2015, 11:50 AM
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You make very good points. However, it also reinforces what I wrote before: would the Swedes prefer to have an elected partisan president with lots of personal powers as in neighboring Finland when they can have instead a powerless, perfectly neutral and non-controversial Head of State with an "angelic impartial face" and a nice looking family ? That is what makes me skeptical about the Swedish republican movement.

Personally, I think that, if Sweden ever becomes a republic, it would make more sense to have a German-like president, who would also be politically neutral, than a Finnish-like one.
I agree. Some of my main points for monarchy is to avoid like the US where they have a leader that should both fill the role of good decider and politician but also the role of showing up at tv-shows and the PR part of the country. I'd rather have ONE person focused on leading the county and ONE focused on promoting the country.
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  #244  
Old 10-08-2015, 12:31 PM
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I think that when monarchies turn into republics, the role of the monarch which is ceremonial of nature, will be filled by a President, equally ceremonial of nature.

The President of the former monarchy which is Germany, Mr Joachim Gauck, has a largely ceremonial role. The real leader of the country is the Chancellor, at the moment that is Mrs Angela Merkel.

The President of the former monarchy which is Italy, Mr Sergio Mattarella, has a largely ceremonial role. The real leader of the country is the Prime Minister, at the moment that is Mr Matteo Renzi.

The President of the former monarchy which is Greece, Mr Prokopis Pavlopoulos, has a largely ceremonial role. The real leader of the country is the Prime Minister, at the moment that is Mr Alexis Tsipras.

It is hard to see monarchies with a ceremonial head of state for centuries turning into a presidential style country à la the United States, France or Russia.
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  #245  
Old 11-26-2015, 08:42 AM
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A survey conducted by YouGov shows that 17 percent of Swedes think that the monarchy should be abolished and that 34 percent believe that the monarchy is an outdated tradition but the issue is not very important to them. This means that a total of 51 percent have no more interest in the monarchy.
The survey was conducted on the period 8 to 12 October 2015. A total of 1542 interviews were conducted via the Internet with men and women 18+ in Sweden. The sample is representative of the Swedish population in terms of gender, age, region and allocation of votes at the parliamentary election in September 2014.
- For many Republicans monarchy is an institution that doesn't fit into a modern, democratic society where the people in elections elect their political representatives, says Lars Ericson Wolke, Professor of History at the National Defence University on why the interest in the monarchy has fallen.
Whether Sweden will abandon the monarchy and instead becoming a republic in the future, according to him, is not an impossibility, but not something that seems likely in the near term.
- Sure, one can imagine a future scenario of Sweden becoming a republic. But as long as the opinion of the republic is relatively limited, it feels not so likely because no political majority in the Parliament would bring upan issue that probably would not win but just lose.

The monarchy should be abolished in Sweden: 17 percent.
The monarchy is a tradition that should go on: 40 percent.
I think the monarchy is an outdated tradition, but the issue is not important for me: 34 percent.
Do not know: 8 percent.
Total: 100 percent.
Så många vill att monarkin ska avskaffas – Metro
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  #246  
Old 11-26-2015, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
A survey conducted by YouGov shows that 17 percent of Swedes think that the monarchy should be abolished and that 34 percent believe that the monarchy is an outdated tradition but the issue is not very important to them. This means that a total of 51 percent have no more interest in the monarchy.

The survey was conducted on the period 8 to 12 October 2015. A total of 1542 interviews were conducted via the Internet with men and women 18+ in Sweden. The sample is representative of the Swedish population in terms of gender, age, region and allocation of votes at the parliamentary election in September 2014.

- For many Republicans monarchy is an institution that doesn't fit into a modern, democratic society where the people in elections elect their political representatives, says Lars Ericson Wolke, Professor of History at the National Defence University on why the interest in the monarchy has fallen.

Whether Sweden will abandon the monarchy and instead becoming a republic in the future, according to him, is not an impossibility, but not something that seems likely in the near term.

- Sure, one can imagine a future scenario of Sweden becoming a republic. But as long as the opinion of the republic is relatively limited, it feels not so likely because no political majority in the Parliament would bring upan issue that probably would not win but just lose.



The monarchy should be abolished in Sweden: 17 percent.

The monarchy is a tradition that should go on: 40 percent.

I think the monarchy is an outdated tradition, but the issue is not important for me: 34 percent.

Do not know: 8 percent.

Total: 100 percent.

Så många vill att monarkin ska avskaffas – Metro

Well this will get the republicans going again.


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  #247  
Old 11-26-2015, 08:47 AM
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Thanks, LadyFinn.

I think it's a very open interpretation to conclude that just because 34 % find the monarchy outdated and not relevant to them personally, that that is the same thing as wishing to abolish the monarchy - at least over time.

I can't help wondering if the 34 % would be significantly reduced if, or rather when, Victoria and Daniel - and of course CP and his Sofia - have more prominent roles.
Because I think the view expressed by the 34 % is very much attributable to the King himself and his not always stellar conduct.

There are things in our daily lives that may not be relevant to us individually or which we may think is outdated.
Example: I'm an atheist, as such the churches are not relevant to me personally in the day to day life, but that doesn't mean I want them torn down or converted into cafeterias. That would be a cultural shame IMO.
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  #248  
Old 12-05-2015, 10:28 AM
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@Muhler - I think this survey should have went further and poll who is popular in the SRF. That could determine the viability of the monarchy. The king's shenanigans did have an impact, but you wouldn't know it by the public turnout at royal weddings and christenings. Although there have been recent movements by certain factions in the Riksdag to have the monarchy abolished, apparently there are not enough votes to make it happen. (I'm sorry I'm not completed familiar with how the Riksdag functions.) I also think it would take a series of misconduct and/or a royal scandal of epic proportions for the republicans to gain steam to end the monarchy.
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  #249  
Old 12-05-2015, 10:57 AM
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Don't think it's a spectacular result, even in the NL were the monarchy has a quite good reputation at the moment, in a recent poll (first half 2015) 16% voted that the monarchy should be abolished...

As far as i can tell CP.Victoria and her family alone will help the monarchy continue for another nr of years
(actually the swedish model of a more ceremoniously monarchy often comes up in polls for the dutch RF and i can see that model being adopted there too)
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  #250  
Old 12-05-2015, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Thanks, LadyFinn.

I think it's a very open interpretation to conclude that just because 34 % find the monarchy outdated and not relevant to them personally, that that is the same thing as wishing to abolish the monarchy - at least over time.

I can't help wondering if the 34 % would be significantly reduced if, or rather when, Victoria and Daniel - and of course CP and his Sofia - have more prominent roles.
Because I think the view expressed by the 34 % is very much attributable to the King himself and his not always stellar conduct.

There are things in our daily lives that may not be relevant to us individually or which we may think is outdated.
Example: I'm an atheist, as such the churches are not relevant to me personally in the day to day life, but that doesn't mean I want them torn down or converted into cafeterias. That would be a cultural shame IMO.



The poll results overall are not very encouraging for republicans. With only 17 % saying that the monarchy should be abolished and 40 % saying it should definitely be kept, it seems clear to me that the republican option would probably be defeated today in any hypothetical referendum. I also agree that being indifferent to the monarchy or considering it outdated does not equate being in favor of abolishing it.
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  #251  
Old 04-19-2016, 12:21 PM
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Swedish people's trust in the royal family's way of handling their work has increased and is at its highest level since in 2010.
It shows the latest survey by the SOM Institute at Gothenburg University.
The Swedish monarchy is enjoying right now. The positive attention in the media increases with weddings, childbirth and birthdays. And confidence among subjects is increasing, according to several studies. The SOM-Institute has measured the confidence of the royal family every year since 1995.
The survey from the end of 2015 were those with great confidence, 11 percentage points more than those with little confidence. This so-called balance measure has not been this high since early 2010.
Förtroendet har ökat för kungahuset _ Nyheter _ Expressen

The presentation from SOM Institute's seminar today, some points from the summary:
A majority wants to maintain the monarchy and does not want to establish a republic.
Among journalists, there is a majority to establish a republic in Sweden, among parliament members are almost as many who are for and against.
There is a big difference between Swedish people and journalists, with much more negative attitudes and less confidence among the journalists.
The Swedish king is as popular as the other Heads of State of the The Nordic countries and the Crown Princess is the most popular public person included in the surveys.
http://som.gu.se/digitalAssets/1571/...l_monarkin.pdf
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  #252  
Old 04-19-2016, 12:52 PM
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Personal popularity or approval do not necessarily translate in similar approval for a monarchal system. Often a personal popularity is higher than the clear question: "Do you favour a system in which the head of state is deliverer by hereditary succession?"

Look at Romania. Both former King Michael and his daughter Princess Margareta are amongst the most trusted and most approved public persons, but there is no any desire for a monarchy, despite the personal approval ratings. So the statistics are what they are and as the previous poster already pointed out: weddings, births, etc. have a positive effect. So it is a thin-as-ice feelgood factor. One mistake and everything is swoosh... through the loo. Ask King Juan Carlos. Du moment that the Panama Papers reveal that Swedish royals evaded tax, all will crumble down. It is important to keep this in the eye. As the verb says: popularity comes by feet but leaves on horseback.
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  #253  
Old 04-19-2016, 01:55 PM
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Medieakademien published it's annual confidence barometer on 7th April 2016 at Media Days. The survey was done by TNS Sifo with webb-interviews with over 1200 people (15 years or older) on 2-13 March 2016.
According to that the confidence for the Royal House has been/is:
2010 - 50 %
2011 - 35
2012 - 35
2013 - 37
2014 - 37
2015 - 40
2016 - 42

When compared the Confidence in Public Institutions, the Royal House is the only institution which has change upwards, has more confidence than last year.
http://medieakademien.se/wp-content/...etern_2016.pdf
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  #254  
Old 04-19-2016, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
The Swedish king is as popular as the other Heads of State of the The Nordic countries and the Crown Princess is the most popular public person included in the surveys.
Just to clarify: This survey doesn't say that King Carl Gustaf is as popular in Sweden as Queen Elizabeth II, King Harald V and Queen Margrethe II is in their countries, because he is not even close to their popularity. What this survey says: is that he is as popular as the other monarchs in the Swedish population. A weird poll if you ask me.
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Personal popularity or approval do not necessarily translate in similar approval for a monarchal system. Often a personal popularity is higher than the clear question: "Do you favour a system in which the head of state is deliverer by hereditary succession?"

Look at Romania. Both former King Michael and his daughter Princess Margareta are amongst the most trusted and most approved public persons, but there is no any desire for a monarchy, despite the personal approval ratings. So the statistics are what they are and as the previous poster already pointed out: weddings, births, etc. have a positive effect. So it is a thin-as-ice feelgood factor. One mistake and everything is swoosh... through the loo. Ask King Juan Carlos. Du moment that the Panama Papers reveal that Swedish royals evaded tax, all will crumble down. It is important to keep this in the eye. As the verb says: popularity comes by feet but leaves on horseback.
Yes, I and the vast majority in the UK, Norway, Denmark and Sweden supports a hereditary constitutional monarchy. It's a unifying symbol and its good for democracy. And you can't compare Sweden with Spain/Romania.
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  #255  
Old 04-19-2016, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Swedish people's trust in the royal family's way of handling their work has increased and is at its highest level since in 2010.
It shows the latest survey by the SOM Institute at Gothenburg University.
The Swedish monarchy is enjoying right now. The positive attention in the media increases with weddings, childbirth and birthdays. And confidence among subjects is increasing, according to several studies. The SOM-Institute has measured the confidence of the royal family every year since 1995.
The survey from the end of 2015 were those with great confidence, 11 percentage points more than those with little confidence. This so-called balance measure has not been this high since early 2010.
Förtroendet har ökat för kungahuset _ Nyheter _ Expressen

The presentation from SOM Institute's seminar today, some points from the summary:
A majority wants to maintain the monarchy and does not want to establish a republic.
Among journalists, there is a majority to establish a republic in Sweden, among parliament members are almost as many who are for and against.
There is a big difference between Swedish people and journalists, with much more negative attitudes and less confidence among the journalists.
The Swedish king is as popular as the other Heads of State of the The Nordic countries and the Crown Princess is the most popular public person included in the surveys.
http://som.gu.se/digitalAssets/1571/...l_monarkin.pdf

If I understood it correctly, 66 % think it is a "bad idea" to establish a republic with an elected president; 18 % think it is "neither good nor bad", and only 16 % think it is a "good suggestion".

In another question though where the survey specifically asked if the monarchy should be kept or abolished, 56 % said it should be kept, 22 % said it should be abolished, and 22 % didn't know.
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  #256  
Old 04-19-2016, 02:46 PM
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I think that inertia/status quo plays a big part. For example had the monarchy been abolished in Denmark but kept in Romania, then I doubt if the Danish would want to re-instate the monarchy even if Margrethe and her family were popular and polls in Romanians would favor keeping the monarchy intact.
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  #257  
Old 04-19-2016, 03:03 PM
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I think that inertia/status quo plays a big part. For example had the monarchy been abolished in Denmark but kept in Romania, then I doubt if the Danish would want to re-instate the monarchy even if Margrethe and her family were popular and polls in Romanians would favor keeping the monarchy intact.
You're right! We like it because it's already there, and it's far better than an divisive politician/celebrity. But no modern country would re-instate or create a monarchy today.
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  #258  
Old 04-24-2016, 08:10 PM
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This is pretty good timing for this poll, given the king's birthday celebrations coming up this week. Add in Silvia's anniversary as queen of Sweden, and two upcoming christenings there are plenty of feel-good moments. But I agree with Duc et Pair - one scandal, particularly a member of the SRF embroiled in the criminal justice system for the wrong reasons, could change that.

I'm just curious to know why journalists have an issue with the SRF. I don't count Expressen and SvenskDam - they have a more tabloid-y feel when reporting on royals and gossip is their bread and butter. Do the other journalists feel they are handcuffed when interviewing the SRF and they can't do follow up questions?
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  #259  
Old 04-24-2016, 08:26 PM
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You can't unscramble an omelette. Once a monarchy has been deposed and its members exiled for generations it's gone. The one exception to this rule in modern times is the Spanish monarchy, returned because General Franco wished it.

In spite of the personal popularity of King Felipe and Queen Letizia I feel much less sanguine about the ultimate survival of the Spanish Royal House than I do about the Swedish royals. The Swedish royal family seems to have a firm hold, a grounding in the history of the country and in Swedish society. The personal popularity of the Crown Princess, of Daniel and of little Estelle seems to play into this, in spite of the King's past shenanigans.

And yes, weddings and babies do make for a feel good factor!
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  #260  
Old 04-24-2016, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
This is pretty good timing for this poll, given the king's birthday celebrations coming up this week. Add in Silvia's anniversary as queen of Sweden, and two upcoming christenings there are plenty of feel-good moments. But I agree with Duc et Pair - one scandal, particularly a member of the SRF embroiled in the criminal justice system for the wrong reasons, could change that.

I'm just curious to know why journalists have an issue with the SRF. I don't count Expressen and SvenskDam - they have a more tabloid-y feel when reporting on royals and gossip is their bread and butter. Do the other journalists feel they are handcuffed when interviewing the SRF and they can't do follow up questions?
Because Swedish media is VERY left wing.
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