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  #221  
Old 10-07-2015, 01:33 PM
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I think the monarchy is not in danger but at the same time it would not surprise me to see a change. And as said: once Sweden, or Norway, or Spain has said "adieu" to the monarchy, other monarchies will follow. When "modern" Sweden says goodbye to the Bernadottes, I can see the "progressive" Dutch not wanting to log behind and say goodbye to the Von Amsbergs too. Mark my words. It is all not that strong as it looks, is my personal idea.
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  #222  
Old 10-07-2015, 01:52 PM
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Maybe a dumb question but aren't we making a mountain out of a molehill?
In every monarchy there are people (and politicians) who want to end their monarchy, but this rarely amounts to much...
I mean: not even a well known gossip mag like "Bunte" has reported on this and if *they* don't consider it worth mentioning that's also saying something...
Indeed. Isn't a motion to abolish the monarchy proposed every year in the Swedish parliament anyway ? The only difference in this case, if I understood it correctly, is that the motion was signed by MPs from 3 different parties, which in itself doesn't mean much.

I'd be worried only if the prime minister or the leader of the main opposition party (which I suppose is now the Moderate Party) announced that abolishing the monarchy would be in their party platform/manifesto for the next general election.
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  #223  
Old 10-07-2015, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I think the monarchy is not in danger but at the same time it would not surprise me to see a change. And as said: once Sweden, or Norway, or Spain has said "adieu" to the monarchy, other monarchies will follow. When "modern" Sweden says goodbye to the Bernadottes, I can see the "progressive" Dutch not wanting to log behind and say goodbye to the Von Amsbergs too. Mark my words. It is all not that strong as it looks, is my personal idea.
I agree with you that when one of them falls, alot will follow. That is one of the reasons the Windsors made some distance between themselves and other royal houses in the past.
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  #224  
Old 10-08-2015, 12:44 AM
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How would the monarchy would have stood if Car Philip were still the crown prince and married Sofia? Would there have been a different perception of the royal house? Would Sofia, given her past, have been accepted as a wife of a future head of state, a future queen? If Victoria's popularity is helping in the public's acceptance of her being the next sovereign, how would a hypothetical Crown Prince couple would have been received as the next monarch and his queen consort? It's the one thing an elected head of state has in common with one born to the role - likability is key in gaining and remaining in power.
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  #225  
Old 10-08-2015, 01:02 AM
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"excessive emotional dependence" = being in love.
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  #226  
Old 10-08-2015, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
How would the monarchy would have stood if Car Philip were still the crown prince and married Sofia? Would there have been a different perception of the royal house? Would Sofia, given her past, have been accepted as a wife of a future head of state, a future queen? If Victoria's popularity is helping in the public's acceptance of her being the next sovereign, how would a hypothetical Crown Prince couple would have been received as the next monarch and his queen consort? It's the one thing an elected head of state has in common with one born to the role - likability is key in gaining and remaining in power.
Well, this is a very un-answerable question. Because Carl Phillip would have been raised a bit different, doing more of the things Victoria did. They wouldn't be the same people as they are now so it's not a question that can be answered.
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  #227  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:43 AM
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@hernameispekka - are you suggesting that if Carl Philip were raised differently - groomed for the throne - he would have made a different choice in a wife? A lot of people dismissed Daniel for a fling and not prince consort material. No one saw him coming - or staying. But Daniel also did not have scandal attached to his name. Sofia does. Would the king and the Riksdag consented to Carl Philip's marriage to Sofia if Carl Philip were heir apparent? Princess is one thing; queen is another. Would Carl Philip have been forced to choose between the crown and his heart?
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  #228  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
@hernameispekka - are you suggesting that if Carl Philip were raised differently - groomed for the throne - he would have made a different choice in a wife? A lot of people dismissed Daniel for a fling and not prince consort material. No one saw him coming - or staying. But Daniel also did not have scandal attached to his name. Sofia does. Would the king and the Riksdag consented to Carl Philip's marriage to Sofia if Carl Philip were heir apparent? Princess is one thing; queen is another. Would Carl Philip have been forced to choose between the crown and his heart?
No, not at all a slight towards Sophia. Just that he would probably have studied more, been less of a party prince etc and he would have different life experiences shaping him into another person than he is now, hence my inability to answer that question at all! Because who know how he would handle that pressure. Would he be more of the hard working kind that Victoria is? Or would he had crumbled under the pressure? etc etc. If Victoria went to another gym everything would have been different. etc etc. We don't know what choices in life shape and change how our life turns out so questions like that are way to complex to be able to answer.
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  #229  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:09 AM
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Of course Carl Philip (and Madeleine) were raised in a different way. They are not heirs to the throne. So there is no way of knowing what would have happened if one of them had been heir and raised differently.

But if CP had been the heir, I don't see any reason why he would have to give up the love of his life. I'm glad that I live in a nation where everyone, including royals, are allowed to marry whomever they want. And where people are judged not by their past.
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  #230  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:20 AM
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I don't understand why Daniel got all the criticism because people were skeptical when it was announced the engagement. But had it been Soifa, no one would have bat an eye. Don't get it at all. And I can understand why Daniel was welcomed a bit coldly at the beginning, but when it comes to Sofia, if CP had been the heir, she can't be judged for her past.
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  #231  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:23 AM
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I don't understand why Daniel got all the criticism because people were skeptical when it was announced the engagement. But had it been Soifa, no one would have bat an eye. Don't get it at all. And I can understand why Daniel was welcomed a bit coldly at the beginning, but when it comes to Sofia, if CP had been the heir, she can't be judged for her past.
I don't think it was much issue around him at all, that I can remember. Maybe in more conservative circles. But all I remember was people being happy because they seemed cute together + it being good PR that he was "one of the people".
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  #232  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
I don't think it was much issue around him at all, that I can remember. Maybe in more conservative circles. But all I remember was people being happy because they seemed cute together + it being good PR that he was "one of the people".
Yes I know. But rumours had it many eyesbrows were raised (the King especially) and many in the upper classes were skeptical that he wouldn't fit the role etc (which IMO was understable given that nobody knew much about Daniel). So, what I mean is that if there were doubts about Daniel, why wouldn't have been any about Sofia? That's all
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  #233  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
I don't think it was much issue around him at all, that I can remember. Maybe in more conservative circles. But all I remember was people being happy because they seemed cute together + it being good PR that he was "one of the people".
Maybe the people in Sweden were happy for Victoria and Daniel. And why would they have not been? Daniel was a well-mannered young man raised well by his parents, with a healthy way of living, who had worked hard his whole life after he finished school.
But the press wrote how Daniel was a boy from the country with a cap, who couldn't talk with people and who was dumb. And they wrote constantly that the king didn't accept him and that the friends of the royal family didn't accept him. The king didn't want to talk about Daniel as Victoria's boyfriend before the engagement in public, and hardly after that. The press wrote that Daniel's businesses went well, because Victoria was his girlfriend. But the press hasn't written at all that it helped Sofia's Project Playground that she was a girlfriend of a prince...

But now we are getting totally away from the subject. There is no need to speculate what would have happened if Carl Philip would be the crown prince. The royal family is now what it is and goes forward with the king, Victoria as the crown princess and Estelle as her heir.
The SOM-institute publishes probably next spring again the figures of the popularity of the monarchy, the government etc. Then we will see, where the royal family stands. During the last years we have seen that the royal weddings and christenings haven't remarkably raised the popularity of the royal family. Now the weddings are done, some christenings are coming. But if the royal family wants to raise it's popularity, it has to be done with their work and by avoiding scandals.
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  #234  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
Yes I know. But rumours had it many eyesbrows were raised (the King especially) and many in the upper classes were skeptical that he wouldn't fit the role etc (which IMO was understable given that nobody knew much about Daniel). So, what I mean is that if there were doubts about Daniel, why wouldn't have been any about Sofia? That's all
Yeah, I know that there was some stuff around him. But I've only found that out later on. I never saw anything online or heard bad words about them from anyone before that :P Soo :P Well, it was some stuff in like Aftonbladet and things. But most people here regard them as a borderline tabloid...
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  #235  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:45 AM
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Yeah, I know that there was some stuff around him. But I've only found that out later on. I never saw anything online or heard bad words about them from anyone before that :P Soo :P Well, it was some stuff in like Aftonbladet and things. But most people here regard them as a borderline tabloid...
Same here. Don't get me wrong, I totally love and support Prince Daniel, I just reported what it was said at that time. You didn't actually answer my question though
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  #236  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:47 AM
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Its difficult to imagine a better Crown Princess than Victoria. No doubt she helps the overall institution of monarchy within Sweden
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  #237  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:52 AM
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Same here. Don't get me wrong, I totally love and support Prince Daniel, I just reported what it was said at that time. You didn't actually answer my question though
I was trying to get away from the little of topicness :P But I see no problem with Sofia so I'm not the right person to ask :) But if I was to hazard a guess. There is a difference between being a owner of a sucsessful buisness in Stockholm and Sofias work history.
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  #238  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
I was trying to get away from the little of topicness :P But I see no problem with Sofia so I'm not the right person to ask :) But if I was to hazard a guess. There is a difference between being a owner of a sucsessful buisness in Stockholm and Sofias work history.
I was kidding of course, Im aware my question was a bit off topic.
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  #239  
Old 10-08-2015, 09:24 AM
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Its difficult to imagine a better Crown Princess than Victoria. No doubt she helps the overall institution of monarchy within Sweden
I totally agree with you. If the monarchy was abolished, and we had a president instead, I have no doubt that she would win the presidential election if she was a candidate :)
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  #240  
Old 10-08-2015, 09:29 AM
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I totally agree with you. If the monarchy was abolished, and we had a president instead, I have no doubt that she would win the presidential election if the was a candidate :)
I agree. I would vote for her. I have the uttermost trust and respect for her and her judgement.
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