Popularity of the Monarchy in Sweden

[Curryong]

Thanks Laurels, you've been very succinct. That is what I think might happen. No storming of the barricades, or fleeing across the border for this Royal family. Instead, a bit of a nudge here with Parliament taking a little more power each time, a nudge there, with an unpopular King and a longterm Press campaign about costs and powers and egalitarianism, perhaps.

In other words, keep nibbling away at the edifice until it finally collapses in on itself, or a majority of the population finally says, as people who are republican often do,'Well, he's only a figurehead, we can have a figurehead President and he won't cost as much!'

Poor Victoria. She works her socks off for her country. I sincerely hope it doesn't end, either with a whimper or a bang. However, I do feel that Sweden is one to watch for the future. Unfortunately.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Yeah I feel sorry for Vickan too. She is much more deserving than a certain other future monarch who by reasons of outrageous fortune is heading for a (at the present) more secure throne....

Based on what I know sweden has far larger problems than its head of state - I notice that conscription has recently been brought back due to the threat of russian aggression in the region.

Most of the republican sentiment is really about the fact that CG is unpopular; he's not the sharpest knife in the draw, his views on a number of things are out of step with the rest of Sweden, and his friends are rather questionable. Lets not get started on the rumours about his sex life either (oh Carl you naughty, naughty boy! *whip crack*).

I think some of the sentiment will come back once Victoria is Queen as she is less tainted as her old man and there is the novelty factor of reigning Queens as well.

 

[Queen Claude]

I thought that while Victoria is by far the most popular Swedish royal, Carl Gustaf is popular as well.

 

[Muhler]

I have a less pessimistic view of the SRF.

Partly for political reasons. I won't go into to many details, but the next election in 2018 is going to be a harsh experience for the established parties. And it is mainly the established parties that wish to ultimately abolish the monarchy.
But these parties have in many ways (in this one as well) lost touch with the ordinary Svenson's outside the inner cities.

And in time of political upheaval people look to what is not only politically neutral but also a stable institution.

Another thing is team V&D themselves. Charisma, dedication and personality matters. This is something V&D have.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In essence the royal families are eroding their very own "being royal" from within. Was it before King Carl XVI Gustaf an absolute no-no to marry a fellow Swede or a commoner (both actions did lead to the loss of the royal status). The (intended) marriages with Daniel Westling, Jonas Bergström and Sofia Hellqvist show that any Swede can become "royal". Suddenly that sporty dude from Örebrö, that whizzkid classmate from Djursholm or the fellow teammate from Danderyd become a "Royal Highness", get a Seraphim hanged around their shoulders, people bow and mumble "Royal Highness" and their babies are suddenly Dukes and Duchesses from Nowhere and Everywhere. It all turns out into a vaudeville. It is a pure eroding of the core fundaments of what a royal family actually is.

The distance to the royal family and "the street" has totally disappeared:

You are that hunky fitness trainer?
You can become Prince of Sweden and be father of the next Queen!
No problem.

You are that underwear model?
You can become a Princess of Sweden and a Duchess of So-and-So.
No problem.

You have a child outside marriage from another dude?
You can perfecly become Queen of Norway.
No problem.

The underlying message is that the gates of the palace are wide open. While people have to apply for jobs, show diplomas and certificates, a curriculum from here to nowhere and compete for a "normal" jobs, it looks like for becoming royal nothing is needed. Royal or noble birth? Spotless past? Respectable careers? Pffff.... come on... this is 2016: no any requirement needed to become "Prince(ss)". Welcome in the royal family! (And this counts for almost all royal families, all of them will be wiped out in the coming decades).

 

[hernameispekka]

In essence the royal families are eroding their very own "being royal" from within. Was it before King Carl XVI Gustaf an absolute no-no to marry a fellow Swede or a commoner (both actions did lead to the loss of the royal status). The (intended) marriages with Daniel Westling, Jonas Bergström and Sofia Hellqvist show that any Swede can become "royal". Suddenly that sporty dude from Örebrö, that whizzkid classmate from Djursholm or the fellow teammate from Danderyd become a "Royal Highness", get a Seraphim hanged around their shoulders, people bow and mumble "Royal Highness" and their babies are suddenly Dukes and Duchesses from Nowhere and Everywhere. It all turns out into a vaudeville. It is a pure eroding of the core fundaments of what a royal family actually is.

The distance to the royal family and "the street" has totally disappeared:

You are that hunky fitness trainer?
You can become Prince of Sweden and be father of the next Queen!
No problem.

You are that underwear model?
You can become a Princess of Sweden and a Duchess of So-and-So.
No problem.

You have a child outside marriage from another dude?
No problem.
You can perfecly become Queen of Norway.

While people have to apply for jobs, show diplomas and certificates, a curriculum from here to nowhere and compete for a "normal" jobs, it looks like for becoming royal nothing is needed. Royal or noble birth? Spotless past? Respectable careers? Pffff.... come on... this is 2016: no any requirement needed to become "Prince(ss)". Welcome in the royal family! (And this counts for almost all royal families, all of them will be wiped out in the coming decades).

Haha, I see you don't understand Sweden one bit. I think them marrying "normal swedes" has actually saved the monarchy.

 

[Blog Real]

I hope the Swedish monarchy is not abolished. Think the monarchy in Sweden are in danger?

 

[Marty91charmed]

I don't know, but I get the feeling that Princess eìEstelle won't see the throne. Jmo.

 

[Mbruno]

Partiföreträdare vill avskaffa monarkin | Nyheter | Expressen

Does this report in Expressen mean that all Swedish political parties intend to rid Sweden of the monarchy? I hope not!

No, it doesn't. That motion is introduced every year in the Riksdag. The only difference is that the motion is now backed by a minority of MPs in all parties.

The important point is, however, that 65 % of the Swedish people still want to retain the monarchy and only 25 % want to abolish it, with the remaining 10 % falling in the "don't know" category. That is actually very low popular support for any meaningful republican move to succeed.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Haha, I see you don't understand Sweden one bit. I think them marrying "normal swedes" has actually saved the monarchy.

When you think a minute longer about it you know that I have touched a very essential question: what is actually a royal family. If Swedes are so hallelujah about the monarchy, we would have seen better statistics, don't we? And... when all Swedes are so happy with non-royals, I have the ultimate instrument to boost their happiness even more: elect your own best candidate from Örebrö, Djursholm or Danderyd to become President of Sweden.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I hope the Swedish monarchy is not abolished. Think the monarchy in Sweden are in danger?

All monarchies are in danger. When Sweden or Luxembourg hold a referendum, you will see a domino-effect in all other monarchies. "Why can the Swedes have a say about their constitution? And why have we no say about our (Belgian, Spanish, Dutch, etc.) constitution?"

 

[Mbruno]

The underlying message is that the gates of the palace are wide open. While people have to apply for jobs, show diplomas and certificates, a curriculum from here to nowhere and compete for a "normal" jobs, it looks like for becoming royal nothing is needed. Royal or noble birth? Spotless past? Respectable careers? Pffff.... come on... this is 2016: no any requirement needed to become "Prince(ss)". Welcome in the royal family! (And this counts for almost all royal families, all of them will be wiped out in the coming decades).

As pointed out before, that is not true. Actually, all royal marriages in Sweden have to be approved by the monarch personally and by the government. In other countries like the Netherlands, they have to be approved by parliament.

In other words, royal brides and grooms are actually subject to very strict vetting before they can join the royal family. When the bride's or groom's past is deemed to be not "spotless" as you said, chances are that consent to the marriage may be withdrawn, as it happened with Mabel in the Netherlands.

Of course, a prince or princess may simply ignore that vetting and marry anyway despite lack of consent from the appropriate authorities, but that means losing his/her succession rights and his/her future descendants' succession rights.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

As pointed out before, that is not true. Actually, all royal marriages in Sweden have to be approved by the monarch personally and by the government. In other countries like the Netherlands, they have to be approved by parliament.

In other words, royal brides and grooms are actually subject to very strict vetting before they can join the royal family. Of course, a prince or princess may simply ignore that vetting and marry anyway despite lack of consent from the appropriate authorities, but that means losing his/her succession rights and his/her future descendants' succession rights.

Nice in theory. Means nothing in practice. King Carl XVI Gustaf could not marry a Swede and/or a commoner. No problem. Scratch scratch. Voilà. He could marry that hostess he met at the Olympic Games. For so far the "very strict vetting".

 

[Queen Claude]

Haha, I see you don't understand Sweden one bit. I think them marrying "normal swedes" has actually saved the monarchy.

I agree. I don't think that there are any hard or fast rules these days. Marrying a foreigner, whether royal or not, is possible but I think that when a potential royal marriage is being evaluated, and the pluses and minuses are being tabulated, the intended being the same nationality as the royal goes in the plus column.

Nice in theory. Means nothing in practice. King Carl XVI Gustaf could not marry a Swede and/or a commoner. No problem. Scratch scratch. Voilà. He could marry that hostess he met at the Olympic Games. For so far the "very strict vetting".

King Carl XVI Gustaf could not marry a Swede or commoner because his grandfather, who was born in the 19th century, disapproved of unequal marriages. On the one hand you may have a point that Silvia was not vetted that strongly because it was a unique situation where the marriage needed approval of the monarch himself, so as monarch King Carl XVI Gustaf was the one who approved his own choice of a wife/consort and also overturned the rules regarding unequal marriages. But then again I still think his choice had to be approved by the government, which it was, and Silvia has more than proven herself as a consort.

By the way is being a hostess at the Olympics really a bad thing? I would think that a lot of "vetting" went into selecting the men and women who serve as hosts and hostess for the Olympic games.

 

[LadyFinn]

In essence the royal families are eroding their very own "being royal" from within. Was it before King Carl XVI Gustaf an absolute no-no to marry a fellow Swede or a commoner (both actions did lead to the loss of the royal status). The (intended) marriages with Daniel Westling, Jonas Bergström and Sofia Hellqvist show that any Swede can become "royal". Suddenly that sporty dude from Örebrö, that whizzkid classmate from Djursholm or the fellow teammate from Danderyd become a "Royal Highness", get a Seraphim hanged around their shoulders, people bow and mumble "Royal Highness" and their babies are suddenly Dukes and Duchesses from Nowhere and Everywhere. It all turns out into a vaudeville. It is a pure eroding of the core fundaments of what a royal family actually is.

The distance to the royal family and "the street" has totally disappeared:

You are that hunky fitness trainer?
You can become Prince of Sweden and be father of the next Queen!
No problem.

Yes, Daniel was once a fitness trainer. But he had started his own company already in 1997 and later went on to run his own gym, Master Training, together with a colleague. Daniel was the ceo and Member of the Board of Master Training. In 2006, he started the company Balance, a gym featuring a new concept. He was the ceo of and member of the Board of Balance too. He still owns the shares in these companies.
Even though he was once a fitness trainer, even a boyfriend of the crown princess has the right to try to go further in his career and not to stay as a fitness trainer for the rest of his life. And when he has done so, he should be addressed with his right title, the ceo of his gyms. And as we have now seen from his work as a prince, Daniel is very ambitious, innovative and hardworking, so his work with his gyms is no surprise.

Here is the motion made to the Riksdag.
Dags att gå vidare från Torekovkompromissen Motion 2016_17_1051 av Niclas Malmberg m.fl. (MP, V, L, C, S) - Riksdagen

And I agree with hernameispekka, Silvia and Daniel have been a big help to the monarchy and will be in the future too. And I agree with Muhler's opinion about Victoria and Daniel.

 

[hernameispekka]

Yes, Daniel was once a fitness trainer. But he had started his own company already in 1997 and later went on to run his own gym, Master Training, together with a colleague. Daniel was the ceo and Member of the Board of Master Training. In 2006, he started the company Balance, a gym featuring a new concept. He was the ceo of and member of the Board of Balance too. He still owns the shares in these companies.
Even though he was once a fitness trainer, even a boyfriend of the crown princess has the right to try to go further in his career and not to stay as a fitness trainer for the rest of his life. And when he has done so, he should be addressed with his right title, the ceo of his gyms. And as we have now seen from his work as a prince, Daniel is very ambitious, innovative and hardworking, so his work with his gyms is no surprise.

Here is the motion made to the Riksdag.
Dags att gå vidare från Torekovkompromissen Motion 2016_17_1051 av Niclas Malmberg m.fl. (MP, V, L, C, S) - Riksdagen

And I agree with hernameispekka, Silvia and Daniel have been a big help to the monarchy and will be in the future too. And I agree with Muhler's opinion about Victoria and Daniel.

Exactly. Plus, they cannot marry swedish nobility since no such thing exists anymore, so if they were to marry "high up enough" they would have to marry other nationalities. If that is the case, I am almost certain that a "normal swede" ranks higher in peoples mind than a foreign nobility. Any whiff of a noble+royal marriage here in Sweden would prompt arranged marriage speculations and "they don't think we're good enough" sentiments and that would be way harder on the monarchy. In sweden, while they are technically above others, it is very very important that they don't seem to think themselves above others.

 

[Queen Claude]

Even though it is a different country, I think that it is interesting that Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh re-classified himself away from being a prince of Greece and Denmark to being Philip Mountbatten, a British commoner in order to make himself more acceptable as the intended husband of the then Princess Elizabeth.

 

[Madame Verseau]

If there were a strict vetting process Sofia wouldn't have been allowed in. It's not just the nude pictures (an unseemly image of a representative of a country, elected or not) but the accusation of fraud with Project Playground (funneling those donations in a personal bank account) would warrant an investigation. I think the Riksdag let Sofia slide is because Carl Philip is never going to be king.

 

[Queen Claude]

There have been no credible accusations of fraud against Sofia, at least not that I am aware of.

 

[hernameispekka]

If there were a strict vetting process Sofia wouldn't have been allowed in. It's not just the nude pictures (an unseemly image of a representative of a country, elected or not) but the accusation of fraud with Project Playground (funneling those donations in a personal bank account) would warrant an investigation. I think the Riksdag let Sofia slide is because Carl Philip is never going to be king.

Again, you don't know Sweden. We were among the first country with nudity in movies. It's not a big deal here. On your other claims, I've heard nothing so...

 

[Blog Real]

All monarchies are in danger. When Sweden or Luxembourg hold a referendum, you will see a domino-effect in all other monarchies. "Why can the Swedes have a say about their constitution? And why have we no say about our (Belgian, Spanish, Dutch, etc.) constitution?"

I don't think that monarchies are all in danger. That's an exaggeration. In Luxembourg the petition asking for a referendum should not have enough signatures, because the monarchy in this country is also very popular. In Belgium and the Netherlands there are no major movements, neither politicians nor of other organizations, for ending the monarchy. In Spain things has also calmed down and Felipe VI is now very popular. In the United Kingdom, in Denmark and Norway the monarchical regime continues to be very popular.
In Sweden despite the wishes of some members of parties in ending the monarchy, as far as I know the monarchy continues to have great support from the people. I hope they don't end up with the monarchy.

 

[moby]

Years ago, I'd have agreed that monarchies throughout the world are in danger. Nowadays, I'm more cautious. There's a threat to the EU, the UK has become isolationist, right-wing parties are on the rise--these are international relations developments that people, during the 90s, would not have predicted will happen in 2016. Francis Fukuyama even wrote about the End of History, which was basically a reflection of optimism at the end of the Cold War. Now Russia and China are flexing their muscles more than ever.

If monarchical institutions are just elements in political science and international relations, history suggests that they will survive. There might be moments when they're not as popular, like present times, but in the future, bet it on it that political events will come into play that would call for stronger monarchies and more powerful monarchs. Might not be in the next 5 years, but it will happen.

As to the vetting process of future members of royal families, I've always felt that they should be screened in the same way a government screens their aspiring diplomats. If in Sweden its Ministry of Foreign Affairs wouldn't accept an applicant to the Foreign Service because of his or her past--as a nude model, links to mobsters, etc--then refuse to approve of a Royal's marriage to a person with similar background. If nudity is not a problem in the Foreign Service, then all right. But if the government thinks that a former nude model would not be the best representative of Sweden, then it definitely should use the same standards for future members of the RF.

Sorry if I segue on the topic a bit.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

[As to the vetting process of future members of royal families, I've always felt that they should be screened in the same way a government screens their aspiring diplomats. If in Sweden its Ministry of Foreign Affairs wouldn't accept an applicant to the Foreign Service because of his or her past--as a nude model, links to mobsters, etc--then refuse to approve of a Royal's marriage to a person with similar background. If nudity is not a problem in the Foreign Service, then all right. But if the government thinks that a former nude model would not be the best representative of Sweden, then it definitely should use the same standards for future members of the RF.]

moby your post deserves a standing ovation, imo.

Very well stated indeed!

 

[tommy100]

Look back in history and you will see any number of 'commoners' or people of 'lower rank' marrying into Royal Families. Its always happened and likely always will, it keeps the monarchy from being insular.

 

[xenobia]

Haha, I see you don't understand Sweden one bit. I think them marrying "normal swedes" has actually saved the monarchy.

I so much totally agree with this. Could marrying commoners have been the downfall of the monarchy in, lets say Belgium? Perhaps. But here, I would say that it saved the monarchy. Where would the king be without Silvia? And Victoria without Daniel? Princess Lillian was also a very popular person. The royal spouse that people may be a little hesitant towards is Chris. I think the general feeling among people is that we don't know him, and he doesn't seem interested in us. I hope he proves everyone wrong.

So if anything, the people who married into the royal family helped them become more popular, in their own way. Had (as an example) Victoria married someone from a foreign royal family, I'm not sure that he would have been as popular.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

The monarchy here in Sweden is not in more danger than any other monarchy in any other country.

Those "motions" from a few left wing - middle Mp:s are coming every year since many years. Nothing will happen until the 2 big parties, The Social Democrats and the Moderate Party will do something. And they have way too much to loose to even try to abolish the monarchy.

This is nothing to worry about.

What would defenitely have been the "death" of the swedish monarchy would be if the Prince's and Princesses would not be allowed to marry out of love and forced to marry another royal or even worse titular royal/nobility. That would be the most effective way to destroy the public support of the monarchy in Sweden. Anyone who says anything else can't be from Sweden because this is simply how it works here.

 

[hernameispekka]

The monarchy here in Sweden is not in more danger than any other monarchy in any other country.

Those "motions" from a few left wing - middle Mp:s are coming every year since many years. Nothing will happen until the 2 big parties, The Social Democrats and the Moderate Party will do something. And they have way too much to loose to even try to abolish the monarchy.

This is nothing to worry about.

What would defenitely have been the "death" of the swedish monarchy would be if the Prince's and Princesses would not be allowed to marry out of love and forced to marry another royal or even worse titular royal/nobility. That would be the most effective way to destroy the public support of the monarchy in Sweden. Anyone who says anything else can't be from Sweden because this is simply how it works here.

Exactly! Any sign or hint of a sign that they were forced to marry someone and they would be out the door sooooo quick.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Who said anything about "forcing" them to marry someone? And practically speaking when was the last time this happened in any of the RF's?

Since when is expecting a member of any Royal family to marry someone with a non controversial background the equivalent of forcing them into a loveless marriage? It's not even a matter of requiring the partner to be an aristocrat.

You seem to be implying that the young Swedish Royals have the inability to love someone who is suitable, and if one of them had married a diplomat or an aristocrat versus say...a reality starlet...it would have been because they were "forced"? I really don't understand the reasoning these days that if a Royal is with someone of their own rank it's because they were forced into it.

But, they don't represent my country and I don't have to pay for them and call them Highness.

So if the Swedes like it, then I love it.

 

[Madame Verseau]

Perhaps that's the reason why the Riksdag wants out in granting final consent to royal marriages - if something horrible and damaging to Sweden comes out on the consort it approved it would hurt that representative's political career? Questions raised on the approval process and how thorough was the vetting?

 

[Hans-Rickard]

The royals are humans like all of us and no pre-programmed robots. They can also fall in love with any person on planet earth. I don't see anything wrong with that as long as they aren't serial killers or something like that.

If you fall in love with someone but is being denied to marry that person because that person doesn't have a noble background or isn't a diplomat, a military or a doctor in something, then you are forced to not marry your loved one as i see it. Most people in Sweden have no problem with Princess Sofia today and defenitely not with Queen Silvia and Prince Daniel.
Sofia did her less good choices in her youth and she admits that. Posing for a nude photo and participating in a reality tv show is controversial things that most people later regrets. But hey, it is not a crime. I don't think that should stop you from marry the love of your life. I want to see the person who has never done a controversial thing in his/her life.

We saw with Charles and the "according to the protocol suitable" Diana how things can go when you are marrying someone you were persuaded to marry and not 100 % in love with. Let that be the last example of that !