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  #41  
Old 01-26-2019, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Items that are held in trust by the family foundations should not be counted in the King's private fortune as they are not owned by him privately. The book is misleading then IMHO.

That is true, unless a foundation can be dissolved and then the properties to be divided under members of the royal family. In such a case it is currently not private property but it can become private property again. It is depending on what the statutes of a foundation say about dissolving the foundation.
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  #42  
Old 01-26-2019, 07:03 AM
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I am constantly amazed that the Swedish Royal Court so openly comment on such books and articles. I appreciate Sweden has a more open society than many other countries but surely they would be better not commenting on everything.
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  #43  
Old 01-26-2019, 07:06 AM
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Indeed.

And a lot of the artwork and items must be considered of national historical value as well. Something the Swedish government will object to being sold outside Sweden.

To me this looks more like an insurance.
Should Sweden become a republic, most of these items would IMO likely be bought by the Swedish state at a reasonable price, ensuring the SRF maintain a life befitting their former status.
A second concern that seem plausible to me, is that by placing especially the jewellery but also antiques and artworks in foundations they remain in the family in case of a bad divorce going against the SRF. - Or because a specific member of the SRF end up in personal financial trouble, and starts to sell the family-jewellery.
AFAIK, the SRF don't pay tax. Should that change, and change pretty quickly, the SRF seem prepared for that as well.
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  #44  
Old 01-26-2019, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That is true, unless a foundation can be dissolved and then the properties to be divided under members of the royal family. In such a case it is currently not private property but it can become private property again. It is depending on what the statutes of a foundation say about dissolving the foundation.
According to what Fredrik Wersäll, the Marshall of the realm, says in the interview the foundations are in reality not foundations, but fideicommises (I don't know the correct English word) meaning that they can't be abolished for as long as the monarchy remains. I'm not sure about why they can't be abolished, but I know that when the Swedish fideicommis system was abolished in the 1960s the four royal fideicommises (or foundations) were exempt.
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  #45  
Old 01-26-2019, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That is true, unless a foundation can be dissolved and then the properties to be divided under members of the royal family. In such a case it is currently not private property but it can become private property again. It is depending on what the statutes of a foundation say about dissolving the foundation.



The Court Marshall said in the interview that, according to the interpretation of the court lawyers, the foundations cannot be dissolved as long as the monarchy remains in place. He refused to answer if the foundations would be dissolved and their assets would revert to the RF in case the monarchy was abolished, claiming he did not know the answer and would not speculate about that scenario.


I agree with the Court Marshall that, if Sweden or the Netherlands for that matter ever become republics, there is no way to tell what kind of settlement the new republican government will reach with the RF. In principle, family foundation assets should revert privately to the trustees if the foundation is dissolved, but I assume the State would have an interest in buying back or having custody over historical items to prevent them from being sold or dispersed by private owners.
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  #46  
Old 01-26-2019, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
AFAIK, the SRF don't pay tax. Should that change, and change pretty quickly, the SRF seem prepared for that as well.
Like all Swedes they pay tax on properties, financial gains etc.
Worth noting here is that Sweden does not tax wealth and inheritance (though we did at the time of the death of Gustav VI Adolf when the royal foundations applied for tax exemption).
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  #47  
Old 01-26-2019, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
He refused to answer if the foundations would be dissolved and their assets would revert to the RF in case the monarchy was abolished, claiming he did not know the answer and would not speculate about that scenario.
I'd say that's a bad translation by Google. What Fredrik Wersäll says is that he can't answer the question, because as you write it'd be a matter of speculation, not that he refuses to answer.
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  #48  
Old 01-26-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
So how does the King distribute the allowances?
Unknown. The Court regularly states that Prince Carl Philip and Princess Madeleine receive only enough from the Royal House's allowance to reimburse them for their official activities, but there is no proof of this. Which may be the reason why a parliamentary committee announced last year that it wished to set official regulations for the funding of the Royal House.

Quote:
Expressen met the Marshal of the Realm Fredrik Wersäll, Treasurer Jan Lindman and director of the press department Margareta Thorgren. Everyone has read the book - but the king hasn't.
- We have advised him not to do so, says the Marshal of the Realm.
They think that there are personal attacks in the new book - but they also believe that in some parts it is ambitiously written.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I am constantly amazed that the Swedish Royal Court so openly comment on such books and articles. I appreciate Sweden has a more open society than many other countries but surely they would be better not commenting on everything.
I am not sure if the Swedish court is more "open" in this regard. It seems as if most the European royal families denounce books, articles, and comments when they see them as "attacks".
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  #49  
Old 01-26-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Unknown. The Court regularly states that Prince Carl Philip and Princess Madeleine receive only enough from the Royal House's allowance to reimburse them for their official activities, but there is no proof of this. Which may be the reason why a parliamentary committee announced last year that it wished to set official regulations for the funding of the Royal House.

But it is not published who gets how much money from the Apanage i think they shoudl do this to show how much Prince Carl Philip and Princess Madeleine really get.

This is done in the other Houses egen in Spain they now publish how they Apanage they get from the State is divided.
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  #50  
Old 01-26-2019, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Unknown. The Court regularly states that Prince Carl Philip and Princess Madeleine receive only enough from the Royal House's allowance to reimburse them for their official activities, but there is no proof of this. Which may be the reason why a parliamentary committee announced last year that it wished to set official regulations for the funding of the Royal House.





I am not sure if the Swedish court is more "open" in this regard. It seems as if most the European royal families denounce books, articles, and comments when they see them as "attacks".
Wait that’s actually a thing? You do official duties and get paid?
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  #51  
Old 01-26-2019, 01:40 PM
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I don't doubt that the King is a very rich man but I assume that they are speaking of billions in Swedish Krona which does not pack the same punch as being a billionaire in dollars, pounds or Euros.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Wait that’s actually a thing? You do official duties and get paid?
Yep, only the King and Crown Princess have apanages, so the King compensates the other royals who carry out royal work. I don't think that Queen Silvia gets an apanage but she has her own household and she I think that Princess Madeleine's work is part of her household.
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  #52  
Old 01-26-2019, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
I don't doubt that the King is a very rich man but I assume that they are speaking of billions in Swedish Krona which does not pack the same punch as being a billionaire in dollars, pounds or Euros.


Yep, only the King and Crown Princess have apanages, so the King compensates the other royals who carry out royal work. I don't think that Queen Silvia gets an apanage but she has her own household and she I think that Princess Madeleine's work is part of her household.
Interesting. So different how it works in the UK. The royals never get a salary for royal duties.
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  #53  
Old 01-26-2019, 04:28 PM
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That's the difference between families that still (primarily) live of properties that they have held from a long long time ago (in the case of the British monarch: the duchy of Lancastar has been the sovereign's private estate from 1399 onwards currently providing a net income of £20 million per year; and in addition there is also the Duchy of Cornwall -from 1337- with a net income of about £19 million per year; moreover, there is also the Sovereign Grant that funds part of the functioning of the monarchy) versus the monarchies that do not live of huge estates that they have held over the centuries. The first could be considered the relics of the feudal system while granting an apanage seems more democratic.
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  #54  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:05 AM
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Now that Sweden has finally organized a new government, does the committee of the constitution intend to proceed with regulating the apanage as they announced last year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
Yep, only the King and Crown Princess have apanages, so the King compensates the other royals who carry out royal work. I don't think that Queen Silvia gets an apanage but she has her own household and she I think that Princess Madeleine's work is part of her household.
There is only one apanage, but the King can distribute it according to his own preferences to his family members, their households, and so on.

https://www.kungahuset.se/royalcourt...180005637.html
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  #55  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:33 AM
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The page mentions that three Households are part of the Court Administration category: The Queen's Household (which administers The King and Queen's activities), the Crown Princess's Household and Princess Lilian's Household.

Perhaps apanage was the incorrect term, my guess is that I got it from a translated article, but the Crown Princess, along with the Royal Couple, has her own Household which distinguishes her from other Swedish Royals.

P.S.
I wonder when that page was last updated because it mentions Princess Lilian's Household .
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  #56  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
The page mentions that three Households are part of the Court Administration category: The Queen's Household (which administers The King and Queen's activities), the Crown Princess's Household and Princess Lilian's Household.

Perhaps apanage was the incorrect term, my guess is that I got it from a translated article, but the Crown Princess, along with the Royal Couple, has her own Household which distinguishes her from other Swedish Royals.

P.S.
I wonder when that page was last updated because it mentions Princess Lilian's Household .



I think that currently there are 3 separate households within the Court: the King's household, the Queen's household, and CP Victoria's household. In addition, the Royal Mews is a fourth separate department that is responsible for royal transportation.
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  #57  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Now that Sweden has finally organized a new government, does the committee of the constitution intend to proceed with regulating the apanage as they announced last year?



There is only one apanage, but the King can distribute it according to his own preferences to his family members, their households, and so on.

https://www.kungahuset.se/royalcourt...180005637.html
The matter is planned to be debated and decided on in the chamber on Februari 27th.

The proposal from the Constitutional Committee is not yet public.

Follow the matter at the website of the Riksdag (only in Swedish):
http://riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-laga...ar-mm_H601KU18
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  #58  
Old Yesterday, 06:00 AM
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The proposal from the Constitutional Committee has been published, and I have to admit I made a mix up. This proposal does not contain anything about the costs, finances or size of the Royal Court/House. Instead, all of that was decided upon last May and a committee was to be appointed. What's new, however, with the this new proposal is that the Riksdag has been informed from the Government Offices that a committee not yet has been appointed. That is likely due to the long process of government formation, so we just have to wait and see I guess.
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