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  #61  
Old 03-30-2011, 09:23 AM
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i actually dont believe that at all. this whole felipe is slow and letizia is showing him up is a trope that shows up in the rags most monarchical countries. the 'let me interrupt' thing is only even brought up by people who don't like her. till date, i havent heard a reasonable argument as to why it is as damaging as people claim it to be. she added 'my love' to soften the 'sting', he laughed, the press laughed and it was EIGHT years ago.
and you contradict yourself when you imply that letizia's bossy personality has a negative impact on felipe just after saying that she has been 'streamlined' by the palace and doesnt appear too self-confident in public anymore?
which is it? shy retiring woman whose spirit has been forced out of her by the grey suits for one 'gaffe' or harpy who is bad for her husband's public image and private happiness?
also, how can you say a bossy woman doesnt suit the role of (future) queen of spain and then say that felipe has grown up in a household of strong woman? was not one of those women, the most important perhaps, the current queen of spain?
and the fact that sofia telling juan carlos to be quiet is unimaginable is true but its also equally true that (to me anyway) a future queen letizia will not make controversial remarks homosexuals. times are changing- while sofia has earnt the right to make slightly inapproariate remarks and still be respected; letizia is also able to admonish her husband for interrupting her without paying the penalty for it nearly a decade on. sofia, an excellent consort comes from a different era and behaved/s accordingly. same for letizia, a commoner who comes from the kind of families she will represent in the future.
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  #62  
Old 03-30-2011, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by black View Post
i actually dont believe that at all. this whole felipe is slow and letizia is showing him up is a trope that shows up in the rags most monarchical countries. the 'let me interrupt' thing is only even brought up by people who don't like her. till date, i havent heard a reasonable argument as to why it is as damaging as people claim it to be. she added 'my love' to soften the 'sting', he laughed, the press laughed and it was EIGHT years ago.
and you contradict yourself when you imply that letizia's bossy personality has a negative impact on felipe just after saying that she has been 'streamlined' by the palace and doesnt appear too self-confident in public anymore?
which is it? shy retiring woman whose spirit has been forced out of her by the grey suits for one 'gaffe' or harpy who is bad for her husband's public image and private happiness?
also, how can you say a bossy woman doesnt suit the role of (future) queen of spain and then say that felipe has grown up in a household of strong woman? was not one of those women, the most important perhaps, the current queen of spain?
and the fact that sofia telling juan carlos to be quiet is unimaginable is true but its also equally true that (to me anyway) a future queen letizia will not make controversial remarks homosexuals. times are changing- while sofia has earnt the right to make slightly inapproariate remarks and still be respected; letizia is also able to admonish her husband for interrupting her without paying the penalty for it nearly a decade on. sofia, an excellent consort comes from a different era and behaved/s accordingly. same for letizia, a commoner who comes from the kind of families she will represent in the future.
I am happy to agree to disagree. In my opinion, Letizia still is who she is, a bossy woman, which is fine for her private life and I am sure she still sports her snappy engagement attitude at home. For her role, she has learnt her lesson very early that it is insubordinate for the female consort in Spain to speak her mind and therefore simply does what casa real expects of her, to walk behind her husband, give him some adoring looks at events and give the usual bla bla speech "thank you for inviting me to support this important cause".

Sofia learned that lesson when she published her biography at the age of 70, yes, she is very respected, but only as long as she shuts up and does her job what does not include the right to make controversial statements. Despite of decades of service to Spain, the media reaction to Sofia's statements was extremely harsh, therefore I dont see any different handling to Letizia.
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  #63  
Old 03-30-2011, 01:16 PM
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Is the Princess unwell?! I was just browsing some photos of her from her career days and the difference is...shocking to put it kindly.

Her face is as lovely as ever, but she looks like she is in serious trouble otherwise.
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  #64  
Old 03-30-2011, 01:22 PM
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Letizia was always an extremely confident and sure woman and I was so excited when I learned of the engagement all those years ago. She is a perfect fit for Felipe, but I beleive that palace wasn't as ready for her as they thought and quickly put her in her place. It is extremely unfortunate because I believe so much of Leti's potential is being wasted and instead so much focus has gone to her fashion and weight. Hopefully when Felipe becomes King, Leti will be allowed to shine much more and be the true asset that she can be to Spain. Its the 21st century, and imo its ok if the consort wears the pants, similar to Mathilde in Belgium.
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  #65  
Old 03-30-2011, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
But its too bad that a bossy woman doesnt fit the job description for the Princess of Asturias or Queen of Spain, Spaniards dont like their future king being presented like a douche by his know-it-all wife. Letizia is being called something like social climber "trepa" in Spain very frequently what probably has to do with her character clashing with her position. I dont think its about Letizia herself, its about the woman's position in the institution, just imagine Queen Sofia would say to the King in public be quiet, I am talking now, unimaginable.
Sure there are people who don't like Letizia's profile or being 'bossy', I don't think it should be generalized to the whole Spaniards. I have never heard Letizia being called 'trepa' in the Spanish press except on some message boards (nothing like Waity Katie being called in England), then most of the commoner royal consorts had been called all sorts of things on the message boards.
Felipe is a bit quiet and shy, not as sociable as his Daddy who is pretty much a born leader. He needs to be more influencial, with more power in Spain, I don't see how a foreign princess would have helped him more than a Spanish professional woman like Letizia.
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  #66  
Old 03-30-2011, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I am happy to agree to disagree. In my opinion, Letizia still is who she is, a bossy woman, which is fine for her private life and I am sure she still sports her snappy engagement attitude at home. For her role, she has learnt her lesson very early that it is insubordinate for the female consort in Spain to speak her mind and therefore simply does what casa real expects of her, to walk behind her husband, give him some adoring looks at events and give the usual bla bla speech "thank you for inviting me to support this important cause".

Sofia learned that lesson when she published her biography at the age of 70, yes, she is very respected, but only as long as she shuts up and does her job what does not include the right to make controversial statements. Despite of decades of service to Spain, the media reaction to Sofia's statements was extremely harsh, therefore I dont see any different handling to Letizia.
yes i think we should leave it at this because i disagree with ur assessments and you with mine.
the simple adoring looks have never caused this much comment/consternation for phillippe/mathilde who are just as affectionate, if not more so imo, it doesnt bear comment. especially since it hasnt excited too much attention beyond the message boards
and the simplistic speeches? nearly all crown princesses give those kinds of speeches from time to time. she has also given excellent ones, like in germany for rare diseases (the only one i can remember for now anyway) and many others that i have seen commented on in the press favourably.
the press will devour letizia if she makes the comments that sofia did because she is a modern woman who has lived in modern times. so their reaction will be justified. i just dont see that she is being taken to task over the engageement thing. it seems wishful thinking that the handlers for the royal family would deviate from their agenda/plan for the (then) new princess simply because one tiny moment that has never even been mentioned too often in noteworthy press.
i think that in a haste to discredit letizia or felipe/letizia and their work, some of us have clutched at straws for years.
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  #67  
Old 03-31-2011, 02:31 AM
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...especially since it hasnt excited too much attention beyond the message boards
to be honest, I think less that 10% of what is being discussed on message boards will excite any attention beyond ... discussing here is fun and nothing that will have any impact on anybody, at least in my opinion.

Quote:
and the simplistic speeches? nearly all crown princesses give those kinds of speeches from time to time. she has also given excellent ones, like in germany for rare diseases (the only one i can remember for now anyway) and many others that i have seen commented on in the press favourably.
of course they do, but some of them also have kind of a royal campaigner role on world media stage, like Maxima or MM. the "engagement Letizia" probably thought she would go down a similar route and it would have suited her very well.

Quote:
i think that in a haste to discredit letizia or felipe/letizia and their work, some of us have clutched at straws for years.
who wants to discredit them? see above, we are exchanging opinions here, nothing more. at least to me its a fact though that Letizia had to adapt more than any other european CP in order to fit into her role and when I look at her today, the institution has brought down her spirits and energy.
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  #68  
Old 03-31-2011, 03:04 AM
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i think i agree regarding the interest and focus of the press and how it differs from the people of royalty boards.
the international nature of maxima and mm is great but letizia will one day be queen of spain. that has its own pull and it is my opinion that she is being groomed to be what queen sofia is now. so i wouldnt worry too much about her
none of us can guess what letizia thought or wanted when she married felipe but all i can suppose is that if her future plans as discussed behind the scenes were disagreeable to her, she could have walked out. since she has not and continues her work, she is fine. i think she has had to adjust to royal life but i don't think there is a single commoner woman who has waltzed into her princess role and been comfortable in it. i think mette marit of norway had/has a tough time but the press in norway is more forgiving and for some reason she does not attract as much censure as letizia.
and regarding the discrediting thing i was speaking about it is those on message boards who seem to say the same 'mistruths' about her over and over again- i can only assume that they are not interested in serious debate and are trying to convince themselves of her rampant unsuitability. lol
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  #69  
Old 04-01-2011, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Its not just judged on photos there is enough video "evidence" that Letizia is a bossy person, most notably on her engagement day where she told her husband not to interrupt her in front of the world media (after that she was "streamlined" by Zarzuela, no telling off hubby in public, no great gesture or too self confident posing anymore).

I dont mind Letizia being a bossy person at all, I think as a couple she is exactly what Felipe needed, somebody who would kick his butt from time to time because he does come across as boring, goofy or slow. He grew up among strong women and is used to being told what to do anyway.

But its too bad that a bossy woman doesnt fit the job description for the Princess of Asturias or Queen of Spain, Spaniards dont like their future king being presented like a douche by his know-it-all wife. Letizia is being called something like social climber "trepa" in Spain very frequently what probably has to do with her character clashing with her position. I dont think its about Letizia herself, its about the woman's position in the institution, just imagine Queen Sofia would say to the King in public be quiet, I am talking now, unimaginable.

A strong woman is not bad at all but there might be positions where a dominant woman is not very welcome because of the public reception and monarchy - a yesterday's instituition anyway, is one of them (at least for the female consort).

Duke, the issue is not just with your perception of her being "bossy", and hence unsuitable as a future queen. You have expressed similar opinion about her parenting skills also. She cannot be a good parent because "she is ambitious, she was career oriented, does not want more children/cannot have more children etc".
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post1175478


I totally get your dislike of her. You have been extremely consistent in your dislike of her and her family. But what gets some of us hot and bothered under the collar is scanty reading of known facts into something else - whether it is Leti's character, her mothering skills, her sisters taking advantage or not of her position.

Also, based upon the abundance of recent pics with King looking fondly at Letizia, or warmly talking with her like during the recent Charles&Camilla visit, can we put to rest the meme that the King dislikes her and does not care if monarchy survives past him because Letizia would make such a dreadful queen??
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  #71  
Old 04-01-2011, 08:13 AM
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Los Prncipes de Asturias agradecen la hospitalidad de los extremeos. hoy.es
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  #72  
Old 04-02-2011, 12:15 AM
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When Letizia married Felipe, unlike some other monarchies (ex. Dutch, Danish and etc), the SRF didn't get any additional resource from the state, so the family members had to make an adjustment to fit Letizia in. I heard there was some resistance from the family (mainly from the infantas and their supporters) at the beginning (I guess nobody wanted to be told 'you are not important anymore'), she was asked to wait for her opportunity for her own woking interest. I think Zarzuela had asked her to wait for a bit too long, I do believe there were some issues after she came back from the 2nd maternity leave, but the issues are no longer there now after Cristina moved to DC. From now on, you can only expect the increased responsibilites for her and Felipe since the Kings are getting older.
black, I agree with you that the Queen of Spain has her own pull, Letizia doesn't need to get a job at the UN. I don't think Letizia wants to travel as much as Maxima while the girls are still very small. Perhaps she will travel more on her own (like her mom-in-law) after the girls are bit older.
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  #73  
Old 04-02-2011, 02:12 AM
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When Letizia married Felipe, unlike some other monarchies (ex. Dutch, Danish and etc), the SRF didn't get any additional resource from the state, so the family members had to make an adjustment to fit Letizia in. I heard there was some resistance from the family (mainly from the infantas and their supporters) at the beginning (I guess nobody wanted to be told 'you are not important anymore'), she was asked to wait for her opportunity for her own woking interest. I think Zarzuela had asked her to wait for a bit too long, I do believe there were some issues after she came back from the 2nd maternity leave, but the issues are no longer there now after Cristina moved to DC. From now on, you can only expect the increased responsibilites for her and Felipe since the Kings are getting older.
This is something I find hard to believe. When Letizia came into the family as CP, it was clear that she would take precedence to the Infantas and had to be made fit in according to her position. Its not that this issue came out of the blue, it was always clear that Felipe would marry some day and the SRF, especially Sofia, are very into protocoll and will have raised her children accordingly, its common sense really and has been since Felipe was born that one day he will marry and that his wife will rank higher than her sisters in law who both have their own jobs because it was always clear that both will fade into the background, like JC's sisters.

The SRF have a good budget, and I find it a myth that there are monetary issues to the degree that Letizia cant afford a hairdresser. The family is RICH, and so is Felipe in his own right, he certainly has interited lots from his grandparents, and even if JC loves his money he will provide for the household of his son accordingly.

I rather think there are personal issues or character clashes and that the institution sadly is not ready for a modern woman image of the 21st century, JC is very macho and is boss, he is free to put the CP couple into the place he thinks is right for the institution. Its not a new problem by the way and will only increase, Charles is the extreme with over 60, still depends on Mummy and Felipe wont like being told what to do at this age either, nor does his wife. JCs agenda has returned to be very demanding these days, no sign of slowing down.
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  #74  
Old 04-02-2011, 02:28 AM
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  #75  
Old 04-02-2011, 03:42 AM
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Duke, perhaps Sofia is very into protocol , but JC isn't. You only need to look at Cristina's Cartier tiara (belongs to JC) at Victoria's wedding, it already said it all. Some royal insiders said that a certain group inside Zarzuela said Letizia was the newest, thus should be at the end of queue. Her work should not overlapped with the Queen or the infantas. This was also in the book of 'The Prince and Princess: Prepared to Rule', written by journalists Carmen Enriquez and Emilio Oliva. Zarzuela is like a corporation, when the work load of the infantas were reduced, it not only affected themselves, also people who worked for them.
The budget is not only for personal spending money, money is needed to organize acts, security needs money, thus the SRF can't have as many acts as they want. On the persoanl money, Felipe's grandparents were in exile, except for some jewels, I don't think he inherited any substantial cash or property from them.
Personality differences wouldn't matter that much (they don't live together, only see each other once a while) if not for the conflicts of interests among the sisters-in-law. I don't think it's a matter of not wanting an image of 21st century modern woman in Zarzuela, Sofia isn't one, but she is busy working. Letizia wanted to work like her mom-in-law, she didn't even get it the first few years. Now I think the working problem has been solved with Cristina gone, Elena the least ambitious in the family not care much of her role. The broken relation (ex. Cristina and Letizia) could be repaired, but hard to be the same as the beginning.
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  #76  
Old 04-02-2011, 09:14 AM
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Duke, the issue is not just with your perception of her being "bossy", and hence unsuitable as a future queen. You have expressed similar opinion about her parenting skills also. She cannot be a good parent because "she is ambitious, she was career oriented, does not want more children/cannot have more children etc".
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post1175478


I totally get your dislike of her. You have been extremely consistent in your dislike of her and her family. But what gets some of us hot and bothered under the collar is scanty reading of known facts into something else - whether it is Leti's character, her mothering skills, her sisters taking advantage or not of her position.

Also, based upon the abundance of recent pics with King looking fondly at Letizia, or warmly talking with her like during the recent Charles&Camilla visit, can we put to rest the meme that the King dislikes her and does not care if monarchy survives past him because Letizia would make such a dreadful queen??
Completely agree with you. Very well said.
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  #77  
Old 04-07-2011, 03:47 PM
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Prince and Princess of Asturias, Don Felipe and Doña Letizia, will preside the Spanish delegation thet will attend on May 1st at the Vatican the beatification of Pope John Paul II confirmed to Efe Spanish diplomatic sources.

Los prncipes de Asturias representarn a Espaa en beatificacin de Wojtyla - ABC.es - Noticias Agencias
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  #78  
Old 04-07-2011, 10:19 PM
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Finally... thank you it is so abvious that everything the Princess of Asturias does it to be taken in a negative way. I loved Letizia and Felipe and I think Spaniards have to be proud how well they are represented by this young couple :)
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Old 04-08-2011, 03:55 AM
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Finally... thank you it is so abvious that everything the Princess of Asturias does it to be taken in a negative way. I loved Letizia and Felipe and I think Spaniards have to be proud how well they are represented by this young couple :)
Well said!
I'm looking forward to seeing Letizia and Felipe during the beatification!
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jjkg View Post
Duke, the issue is not just with your perception of her being "bossy", and hence unsuitable as a future queen. You have expressed similar opinion about her parenting skills also. She cannot be a good parent because "she is ambitious, she was career oriented, does not want more children/cannot have more children etc".
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post1175478


I totally get your dislike of her. You have been extremely consistent in your dislike of her and her family. But what gets some of us hot and bothered under the collar is scanty reading of known facts into something else - whether it is Leti's character, her mothering skills, her sisters taking advantage or not of her position.

Also, based upon the abundance of recent pics with King looking fondly at Letizia, or warmly talking with her like during the recent Charles&Camilla visit, can we put to rest the meme that the King dislikes her and does not care if monarchy survives past him because Letizia would make such a dreadful queen??

Why is it so bad to post a negative comment about Letizia? This forum would be very boring if all we did was agree on everything. The king has to "look" pleasant whether he likes her or not. I think we need to understand that not all of us have the same view points. Being bossy is just her personality; mothering skills: we see that she is a perfectionist with the girls and very protective, not bad, not good, it's just how she is. Her family taking advantage of her position? Not good not bad, but we don't have to agree.
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