The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #441  
Old 04-18-2012, 08:32 AM
asturiana's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: BW, Germany
Posts: 1,935
(The Washington Post)

King Juan Carlos says he is sorry for having gone on African elephant-hunting trip - The Washington Post
__________________

  #442  
Old 04-18-2012, 08:35 AM
EIIR's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
Have you read the link EIIR? JC and Mohamed Eyad Kayali are close friends and apparently this relationship was instrumental for Spain getting a very lucrative contract - one that France was almost sure to get until JC personally intervened.

It's always been known the close relationship betwen Spain, the SRF, JC, the Middle East and its Royal Houses. This is no news.

Whilst this is delving in political issues and I have no intention of going further (there is plenty information for those wanting to further explore this issue) Spain did not recognise Israel until 1986 because they didn't want to recognise it until it withdrew from the occupied territories and a Palestinian estate was created. This is just one reason for the close relationship, there are plenty of others.
The link doesn't answer my question. This Prince chose to pay for Juan Carlos to hunt and kill elephants. Now, most people don't shell out tens of thousands of dollars without expecting reciprocation in some way. What does Juan Carlos do for this Prince that makes him willing to pay for his holiday?
__________________

  #443  
Old 04-18-2012, 08:36 AM
Alondra's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 332
Have you read the book by Pilar Urbano "La Reina muy de Cerca"?. It was a book that Queen Sofia had a very direct imput from the beginning. It caused quite an uproar in Spain at the time when she revealed some of her personal views on various subjects.

On the issue of JC abdication she said "never, ever, ever. The king will die as king, preferable on his own bed" When asked about whether she had thought about JC dying before her and whether she could be referred as a Queen Mother, her answer was categorical - "Never. I will always be Sofia Queen of Spain"

Sofia and JC didn't marry for love, they had a royal marriage where love was not really the important issue. As Pilar Urbano said in her book, and was not contradicted by QS, she was born to be a Queen. That's it.

Sofia has had an apartment in London for more than a decade where she spends a lot of time with her Greek family. She certainly knows about JC private life - she's known for years. They've had a good working relationship until now ....and considering their ages, I think it's normal they clash from time to time.

She is not putting her lifestyle aside for him...and vice-versa. To see her as a "poor woman being abused by her cheating husband" is completly ridiculous.
  #444  
Old 04-18-2012, 08:41 AM
Alondra's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
The link doesn't answer my question. This Prince chose to pay for Juan Carlos to hunt and kill elephants. Now, most people don't shell out tens of thousands of dollars without expecting reciprocation in some way. What does Juan Carlos do for this Prince that makes him willing to pay for his holiday?
I don't know. Maybe a political pay back from the Spanish government at some point?

All countries play the same game.
  #445  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:00 AM
EIIR's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
I don't know. Maybe a political pay back from the Spanish government at some point?

All countries play the same game.
Well, don't you think that the Spanish public have a right to know if their King is organising 'payback' in return for his free luxury holiday? Not to mention what that 'payback' entails?
  #446  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:03 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,978
Thank you for your reply, Alondra.

I do wonder however how devoute a Catholic the King really is in light of his chosen indiscretions.

And its not as though he has had one mistress with whom he has shared such intimacies. He's a philanderer, plain and simple. But naturally, that is aside from his constitutional function as sovereign and ultimately is a personal matter for the Queen and him.
__________________

"Dressing is a way of life" - Monsieur Saint Laurent
  #447  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:05 AM
Alondra's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
Well, don't you think that the Spanish public have a right to know if their King is organising 'payback' in return for his free luxury holiday? Not to mention what that 'payback' entails?
How much do you know about what the politicians in your country do ....and their pay backs?

I said from the beginning that JC had made a mistake. But I refuse to crucify him for for doing what most other royals of his generation have done and still do.

He has apologised and said it won't happen again. It's way more that many heads of state who have done far worse, have ever done.
  #448  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:10 AM
Alondra's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Thank you for your reply, Alondra.

I do wonder however how devoute a Catholic the King really is in light of his chosen lifestyle.
Good question. My impression has always been that he's more of a Catholic in name than conviction.

Spain is a funny country in many aspects. It's considered "Catholic" and yet a good majority is agnostic - catholicism is more a tradition than a religious belief.

For what I've read, I think that Queen Sofia is much more spiritual than he is.
  #449  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:15 AM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,438
King Juan Carlos has been discharged from hospital.
There were well-wishers outside the hospital, but there were also a lot of protesters.

Gallery from Daylife
Gallery from Getty
  #450  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:23 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
Good question. My impression has always been that he's more of a Catholic in name than conviction.

Spain is a funny country in many aspects. It's considered "Catholic" and yet a good majority is agnostic - catholicism is more a tradition than a religious belief.

For what I've read, I think that Queen Sofia is much more spiritual than he is.
I identify well with your impression, as it's something I myself have noticed. Relgious conviction almost seems to be passed down like a family name. It becomes this cultural institution by where people observe it for a greater sense of nationalistic belonging.

The Queen has always seemed to me a more spiritual person.
__________________

"Dressing is a way of life" - Monsieur Saint Laurent
  #451  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:30 AM
EIIR's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
How much do you know about what the politicians in your country do ....and their pay backs?

I said from the beginning that JC had made a mistake. But I refuse to crucify him for for doing what most other royals of his generation have done and still do.

He has apologised and said it won't happen again. It's way more that many heads of state who have done far worse, have ever done.
Actually, just recently there was a big controversy in my country about the Prime Minister's party seeking donations from wealthy individuals in return for 'access' to decision makers. An inquiry is under way.

Just because others have done it doesn't make it right. Given the economic catastrophe unfolding in Spain, to have the King accepting huge gifts from Saudi Princes is just incredibly dubious. If I was a Spaniard I'd want to know what this Saudi guy is getting in return.
  #452  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:43 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 11,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
Actually, just recently there was a big controversy in my country about the Prime Minister's party seeking donations from wealthy individuals in return for 'access' to decision makers. An inquiry is under way.

Just because others have done it doesn't make it right. Given the economic catastrophe unfolding in Spain, to have the King accepting huge gifts from Saudi Princes is just incredibly dubious. If I was a Spaniard I'd want to know what this Saudi guy is getting in return.
EIIR, I said it in the other thread, these are old boys' network connections that origin from the unique situation of the monarchy being re-established and Spain being steered into democracy. Most of it wont continue under Felipe because he will be under a different scrutiny and doesnt see eye to eye with his fathers old buddies.

It may not be right but JC still gets away with most things (well, maybe not elephant hunting), especially if they serve the Spanish cause too (in this case, multi-billion contracts with saudi business). Installing democracy after the Franco regime will give him the life-long respect of his country and make him untouchable eg regarding abolishment or abdication, these discussions will only come up after his death. The fact that the Spaniards respect Juan Carlos doesnt make them necessarily monarchists.
  #453  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:49 AM
KittyAtlanta's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: KittyLand Junction, United States
Posts: 3,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
How much do you know about what the politicians in your country do ....and their pay backs?

I said from the beginning that JC had made a mistake. But I refuse to crucify him for for doing what most other royals of his generation have done and still do.

He has apologised and said it won't happen again. It's way more that many heads of state who have done far worse, have ever done.
He has apologized, but I don't believe it is sincere. He has the blood lust and did not quit this type of hunting when the other royal houses stopped big game hunting. Spain's King Kills Tame, Drunk Bear on Russian Trip (Update2) - Bloomberg and King of Spain Shoots a Drunken Bear Dead - Kommersant Moscow

The other royal houses still hunt, but their bag is served at table.
  #454  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:47 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Washington, D.C., United States
Posts: 339
The whole hunting thing seems to be obscuring the more concerning problems here:
-- the PR error or taking an apparently lavish trip during an economic crisis
-- the reports about the alleged mistress
-- the questions about accepting trips and associations with unsavory people

The hunting trip is, at worst, a PR blunder, both in terms of taking the trip and elephant hunting. But, it's not illegal.

If the stories about the mistress are true, that might well be illegal, assuming adultery is illegal in Spain.

Same with accepting gifts. I'd be curious to know if the King, as a public official, is allowed to accept such favors.

Hunting elephants may be objectionable to many, but it's not even the most alarming thing here.
  #455  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:59 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalnel View Post
The whole hunting thing seems to be obscuring the more concerning problems here:
-- the PR error or taking an apparently lavish trip during an economic crisis
-- the reports about the alleged mistress
-- the questions about accepting trips and associations with unsavory people

The hunting trip is, at worst, a PR blunder, both in terms of taking the trip and elephant hunting. But, it's not illegal.

If the stories about the mistress are true, that might well be illegal, assuming adultery is illegal in Spain.

Same with accepting gifts. I'd be curious to know if the King, as a public official, is allowed to accept such favors.

Hunting elephants may be objectionable to many, but it's not even the most alarming thing here.
Why would adultery be illegal in a secular society? It is a private matter.
  #456  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:08 PM
KittyAtlanta's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: KittyLand Junction, United States
Posts: 3,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalnel View Post
The whole hunting thing seems to be obscuring the more concerning problems here:
-- the PR error or taking an apparently lavish trip during an economic crisis
-- the reports about the alleged mistress
-- the questions about accepting trips and associations with unsavory people

The hunting trip is, at worst, a PR blunder, both in terms of taking the trip and elephant hunting. But, it's not illegal.

If the stories about the mistress are true, that might well be illegal, assuming adultery is illegal in Spain.

Same with accepting gifts. I'd be curious to know if the King, as a public official, is allowed to accept such favors.

Hunting elephants may be objectionable to many, but it's not even the most alarming thing here.
No, none of it is illegal. I'm blase regarding the mistresses and spending money and accepting gifts.

The man is too out of touch to be a 21st century monarch.
  #457  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:17 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
I don't know. Maybe a political pay back from the Spanish government at some point?

All countries play the same game.
Perhaps access to Spanish officials that may approve Saudi investment/development in Spain? Wouldn't be a bad thing if that were the case considering the current state of the economy.
Arab royals tend to prefer dealing with other royals which is why Prince Andrew and other British royals are frequent visitors to the Middle East. As the UK Foreign Minister said it gives the UK and its companies a profile and a boost that other countries cannot match.
  #458  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:06 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Washington, D.C., United States
Posts: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Why would adultery be illegal in a secular society? It is a private matter.
It varies from place to place. It's illegal in most states in the United States and in Canada, but I don't know about Spain. It's not often prosecuted, but it's a felony in several states, including Wisconsin, Michigan, and Maryland. Throughout North America, it's grounds for divorce.

A member of the U.S. military caught committing adultery can be court martialed and dishonorably discharged. That was a big issue when Bill Clinton admitted to Monica Lewinsky, since he was commander-in-chief.

In a legal sense, it's a breech of contract and a form of fraud.
  #459  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:11 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Washington, D.C., United States
Posts: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
No, none of it is illegal. I'm blase regarding the mistresses and spending money and accepting gifts.

The man is too out of touch to be a 21st century monarch.
I don't know what Spain's law on adultery is, but I imagine accepting gifts would be illegal if someone were trying to buy favor with the government. If it's just a matter of his rich friends buying him lavish gifts without any expectation of favors, I agree with you.

Is he out of touch? Hard to say. He certainly has a tin ear on PR issues, but kings do play by different rules. :-)
  #460  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:38 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalnel View Post
It varies from place to place. It's illegal in most states in the United States and in Canada, but I don't know about Spain. It's not often prosecuted, but it's a felony in several states, including Wisconsin, Michigan, and Maryland. Throughout North America, it's grounds for divorce.


In a legal sense, it's a breech of contract and a form of fraud.
How bizarre and puritanical. On that basis an awful lot of people, including several of your leaders would need to be locked up. Newt Gingrich having famously been unfaithful to 2 of his wives and then married to 2 women who were previously his mistresses. Fortunately most places have moved to no fault divorce. While adultery is one of 3 grounds for divorce (if it can be proved or is admitted) it doesn't gain the offended spouse any points in the divorce because Canada is essentially a no fault country.
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, Current Events Part 22: April 2012 - June 2013 dazzling Current Events Archive 533 06-24-2013 02:23 AM
King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, Current Events Part 20: March 2010 - May 2011 Her_Majesty Current Events Archive 493 05-04-2011 03:48 AM
King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, Current Events Part 9: March - April 2006 Elsa M. Current Events Archive 185 04-22-2006 09:15 AM
King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, Current Events Part 3: April - June 2005 Elsa M. Current Events Archive 173 06-21-2005 03:31 PM
King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, Current Events Part 2: February - April 2005 Elsa M. Current Events Archive 162 04-21-2005 10:29 AM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 belgian state visit to japan best gown best gown 2016 best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit best outfit september catherine middleton style coup d'etat courtship crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess victoria current events denmark denmark royal family duchess of cambridge duke of cambridge e-mail fashion poll kate middleton king abdullah ii king philippe king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince charles princess eugenie fashion princess madeleine hats princess marie princess mary princess mary casual style princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen margrethe queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania casual outfit queen rania daytime fashion queen rania fashion queen rania in australia september 2016 spanish state visit to japan state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:03 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises