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  #61  
Old 02-27-2018, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
If there is strife in The House of Bonaparte because of a divorce I'm sure old Josephine is laughing on a cloud in heaven.
She absolutely is. So much hypocrisy.
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  #62  
Old 02-27-2018, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Most likely the openly republicanism of Prince Charles was a thorn in the flesh for the bonapartists but the three formal reasons for the drastic testamentary actions were: marrying without permission of the head of the House, adopting without permission of the Head of the House and marrying against the dynastic interests and tradition of the House. Prince Charles' republicanism formally is no factor in the juridical battle to fight his father's testament.

Needless to say that the bonapartist infighting and the openly republicanism by Prince Charles is not very much advancing the Bonapartist cause. The same can be said about the chronic infighting amongst the Orléanists. The République has zero comma zero to fear from both pretending Houses.
Thank you for the explanation. So is being a commoner not advancing the cause? Does it mean that Charles and Beatrice's marriage was arranged to keep the tradition of the dynasty as in bringing more aristo/royal blood and connections into the mix?
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  #63  
Old 02-27-2018, 09:55 PM
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Does it mean that Charles and Beatrice's marriage was arranged to keep the tradition of the dynasty as in bringing more aristo/royal blood and connections into the mix?
Definitely not an arranged marriage: Charles and Beatrice rather mortified both sets of parents by only contacting a civil ceremony when they wed in 1978. At the time, they both held left wing views, with Beatrice being described as a "militant feminist." Beatrice remained on very good terms with Louis and Alix after the divorce from Charles: it was Beatrice who attended the funeral of Prince Louis in 1997 as the mother of the Head of the Imperial House - Charles opted not to attend as he was told he would not be able to bring his second wife.


Battle rages for the Napoleonic succession | The Independent

Charles Napoléon, 47 ans, fils du prince Louis. «Républicain et démocrate», divorcé, il a été déshérité par son père. Sorti du rang. - Libération

Prince Napoleon alive and well in Paris

Brouilles impériales, actualité Société - Le Point

Imperial France: House Bonaparte news
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  #64  
Old 02-27-2018, 11:48 PM
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Bonapartes

It was not arranged. I think the idea of marrying other nobles/royals is due more to knowing them more (on average) than commoners and other similarities. Some blue bloods are genuinely more keen to marry for blood purity than love, but Jerome and Charles are not like that.
I think their children are much the same in that regard though I've never met them and can only guess.
Josephine herself was not high ranking as was Eugiene. Lucien and Jerome's first wives were common. Lucien's first wife was illiterate but he loved her all the same and married her in defiance of the emperor. Loving commoners even in the face of great adversity is a very Bonaparte trait. Rather or not it furthers their cause I cannot say.
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  #65  
Old 02-28-2018, 03:56 AM
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It was not arranged. I think the idea of marrying other nobles/royals is due more to knowing them more (on average) than commoners and other similarities. Some blue bloods are genuinely more keen to marry for blood purity than love, but Jerome and Charles are not like that.
I think their children are much the same in that regard though I've never met them and can only guess.
Josephine herself was not high ranking as was Eugiene. Lucien and Jerome's first wives were common. Lucien's first wife was illiterate but he loved her all the same and married her in defiance of the emperor. Loving commoners even in the face of great adversity is a very Bonaparte trait. Rather or not it furthers their cause I cannot say.
But Joséphine -an aristiocrat- married a commoner. Napoléon and his brothers were commoners. It was in their newly vested dynasty's interest to marry as well as possible to extablish themselves as a respected family in the Almanach de Gotha. Exactly the same was done by the Bernadottes in Sweden, with their strict marriage policy.
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  #66  
Old 02-28-2018, 04:41 AM
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Definitely not an arranged marriage: Charles and Beatrice rather mortified both sets of parents by only contacting a civil ceremony when they wed in 1978. At the time, they both held left wing views, with Beatrice being described as a "militant feminist." Beatrice remained on very good terms with Louis and Alix after the divorce from Charles: it was Beatrice who attended the funeral of Prince Louis in 1997 as the mother of the Head of the Imperial House - Charles opted not to attend as he was told he would not be able to bring his second wife.
Thank you! "Militant feminist"? Wow that's news to me. This family is becoming more and more interesting.
So they only had a civil ceremony. I was trying to find their wedding pic online but there's nothing, unfortunately.
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  #67  
Old 02-28-2018, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by IlekVad View Post
It was not arranged. I think the idea of marrying other nobles/royals is due more to knowing them more (on average) than commoners and other similarities. Some blue bloods are genuinely more keen to marry for blood purity than love, but Jerome and Charles are not like that.
I think their children are much the same in that regard though I've never met them and can only guess.
Josephine herself was not high ranking as was Eugiene. Lucien and Jerome's first wives were common. Lucien's first wife was illiterate but he loved her all the same and married her in defiance of the emperor. Loving commoners even in the face of great adversity is a very Bonaparte trait. Rather or not it furthers their cause I cannot say.
Thanks a lot for this info. Yes, I understand that those are their primary circles. But JC has been studying and working abroad and hence has a lot of exposure to all sorts of people. I hope he will choose someone for himself, not for the dynasty.
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  #68  
Old 02-28-2018, 08:52 AM
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He is supported by his grandmother the old Dowager Princess Napoleon.
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  #69  
Old 02-28-2018, 09:01 AM
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He is supported by his grandmother the old Dowager Princess Napoleon.
what sort of support by the Dowager Princess do you mean?
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  #70  
Old 02-28-2018, 09:05 AM
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He is supported by his grandmother the old Dowager Princess Napoleon.
Very true ! And when by any chance you have a nice chitchat with the Princess Napoléon about "the Prince", it's very clear in her mind that we are talking about Jean-Christophe, not her son...
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  #71  
Old 02-28-2018, 10:27 AM
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The Buonapartes were in fact members of an old Tuscan noble family incorporated into the French nobility. Louis XV issued an edict in april 1770 "whereby all Corsicans who can prove their possession of nobility for two hundred years are admitted into the French nobility with the enjoyment of all its privileges". Carlo Buonaparte made the application and it was approved 13th of September of 1771.
That said Josephine was of a totally different social standing than her husband Napoleon. The former a member of an old, prominent family of courtiers and the other a member of the petty nobility.
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  #72  
Old 02-28-2018, 08:07 PM
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Bonapartes

I wouldn't define the Bonapartes, or rather in that age Buonaparte, as being "petty" nobility. Carlo was Corsica's representative in the court of King Louis and before Corsica was incorporated into France they were in the Italian courts and councils. They were low ranking to be sure, but not petty.
Joseph would've been higher in status than Napoleon with him being the older brother, but Napoleon strove for power and succeeded. At the time of their religious marriage Napoleon's status was much higher than Josephine's.
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  #73  
Old 03-01-2018, 06:46 AM
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I wouldn't define the Bonapartes, or rather in that age Buonaparte, as being "petty" nobility. Carlo was Corsica's representative in the court of King Louis and before Corsica was incorporated into France they were in the Italian courts and councils. They were low ranking to be sure, but not petty.
Joseph would've been higher in status than Napoleon with him being the older brother, but Napoleon strove for power and succeeded. At the time of their religious marriage Napoleon's status was much higher than Josephine's.
The term petty nobility is just another way to say lower, untitled nobility.
According to the views of the French nobility at the time I would say that the widow of a Vicomte Beuharnais, herself a member of the ancient House of Tascher, was more prominent than a general of noble Corsican descent.
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  #74  
Old 03-01-2018, 07:15 AM
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The term petty nobility is just another way to say lower, untitled nobility.
According to the views of the French nobility at the time I would say that the widow of a Vicomte Beuharnais herself a member of the ancient House of Tascher was more prominent than a general of noble Corsican descent.
Yes, I have understood that especially anciennity is important in blue blooded circles.

Let us use the example of the Southern-Netherlands (now Belgian) comital family De Lannoy, a prestigious family with an Nobility Charter from the 13th C. This means that a De Lannoy often is then seen as "more prestigious" than a family with a higher rank, but with a Nobility Charter just from the 20th C.

The nobility of the Tascher de La Pagerie family (Joséphine) has far more anciennity than the higher ranked but brand new acquired noble titles of Napoléon Bonaparte.
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  #75  
Old 03-01-2018, 08:31 AM
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The last Bonaparte was HRH Princess Georges of Greece.
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  #76  
Old 03-01-2018, 08:50 AM
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The last Bonaparte was HRH Princess Georges of Greece.
I think she said that "I'm the last Bonaparte. My Imperial cousins are just Napoleons" Fascinating woman.
We're way off topic aren't we 🤪
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  #77  
Old 03-01-2018, 09:52 AM
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yes , a bit but what a destiny ! ( the Blanc casino of Monte Carlo and Freud) !
back to the thread! kind regards JR76 from Maria Olivia.
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  #78  
Old 03-01-2018, 10:48 AM
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I hope it won't be off topic to ask about the work of Princess Beatrice - does she work? has she ever worked? where does she live? also, does the family spend a lot of time together? what are C and JC relationships with Prince Charles?
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  #79  
Old 03-01-2018, 11:16 AM
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I hope it won't be off topic to ask about the work of Princess Beatrice - does she work? has she ever worked? where does she live? also, does the family spend a lot of time together? what are C and JC relationships with Prince Charles?
I have no idea actually but she often turns up on the Instagram on the branch of the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies led by her brother The Duke of Castro. Often in curcumstances involving The Sacred Military Constantinian Order of Saint George of which she is Grand Prefect and over which her brother claims to be sovereign.

If I remember it correctly Jean-Cristophe was the sponsor of his cousin Maria-Carolina of Bourbon-Two Sicilies at her confirmation.

Charles let it be known in Point de Vue in 1997 that "there will never be conflict between us" and as far as I know there hasnt been any public signs of conflict so hopefully the family members is at peace with each other.
If theres anything the Bonapartes have been good at its family feuds.
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  #80  
Old 03-01-2018, 09:00 PM
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I hope it won't be off topic to ask about the work of Princess Beatrice - does she work? has she ever worked? where does she live? also, does the family spend a lot of time together? what are C and JC relationships with Prince Charles?
When she was younger, she worked as a press attachée. In recent years, she co-authored a book entitled Votre Mariage Royal with Cyrille Boulay. She lived in France at Neuilly-sur-Seine...not sure if the address is current anymore.
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