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  #341  
Old 02-04-2006, 02:29 PM
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In London, hundreds of demonstrators converged on Denmark's Embassy and burned the Danish flag. Women wearing headscarves chanted and held banners proclaiming: "Kill the one who insults the Prophet."
Don't you worry, I've been down there and told quite a few what I think of them and I know many passers by did too. I'm not Danish but it makes me so angry when I see this sort of thing.
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  #342  
Old 02-04-2006, 02:37 PM
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Has the queen, at least, given a public statement regarding this matter?
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  #343  
Old 02-04-2006, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
like it or not, but the essence is that you can say and print whatever you like, which is a good thing. I do not think we should turn the situation around now. The cartoons were bad taste indeed, but the reaction of a part of the muslim world is so shocking that we should defend our right to publish whatever we want. Of course, as the father of the murdered filmmaker Theo van Gogh said: You are allowed to say it, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to!

It amazes me why 100.000's of muslims are protesting now, while on a daily basis muslims murder each other in Iraq, and you don't hear a word about that from them. That a future EU-member, Turkey, is saying that the freedom of the press should be contained worries me as well.

I don't think the Queen can do anything right now :(

It upsets and worries me as well, to see how much some islamic people hate us, the western world, especially as many of those who hate our way of living are living amongst us & I fear the worst for the future.
So true, especially the sentence I highlighted !!!

If the Danes were as extreme as some of these Muslims the Danish prime minister would be the first to shout out that the boat disaster in Saudi Arabia is Allah's punishment on the muslims for the way they treat the Danish flag.

In my opinion, it's no scientific mystery why this boat went down so fast. This is what you get when you put two ferries on top of each other and expect it to be seaworthy. Well, this is a different matter, anyway, here is a picture of that monstrous ferry: http://www.faktaomfartyg.com/al_sala...o_1970_b_1.htm

(As Muslim leaders were fast to call the storm Katrina God's punishment on the US.)

I don't think the Queen is the main target for any attacks. I think the most likely scenario is a bomb in the metro system. Everyday security in Denmark isn't the most efficient. (The royals and the government have security around them.)

I'm just thankful the baptism of Christian was 14 days ago. Can you imagine the tension if it took place today ??
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  #344  
Old 02-04-2006, 04:04 PM
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It's a bit sad, I think, that the situation has escalated to this point. The drawings were originally from a children's book, wherein the illustrators were afraid to use their names. Jyllandsposten (the paper carrying the drawings) took some of them in to make a point on something, or another. This was in September last year.

Suddenly I heard stories about urging to boycot the festival Images of the Middle East (Prince Joachim is going to be the patron, and the festival encourages understanding of different cultures...)

And now... well... I would expect a higher security on the metro stations in Copenhagen, and possibly around Amalienborg and other royal residences. (Especially considering that the road over the palace square is open for any vehicle.) Going in to work on Wednesday might be fun. I work fairly close to Amalienborg - and with the situation being the way it is - it was no fun getting to work on Friday when I had to take the metro because I was too late to bike. I imagine Wednesday will be worse. I really hope the snow they promised won't arrive. It destroys the Danish transport system.

It should be pointed out though... burning of the Danish flag is actually the recommended method of disposing of old worn out flags, so that they aren't used to polish the silver or similar things...
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  #345  
Old 02-04-2006, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
like it or not, but the essence is that you can say and print whatever you like, which is a good thing. I do not think we should turn the situation around now. The cartoons were bad taste indeed, but the reaction of a part of the muslim world is so shocking that we should defend our right to publish whatever we want. Of course, as the father of the murdered filmmaker Theo van Gogh said: You are allowed to say it, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to!

It amazes me why 100.000's of muslims are protesting now, while on a daily basis muslims murder each other in Iraq, and you don't hear a word about that from them. That a future EU-member, Turkey, is saying that the freedom of the press should be contained worries me as well.

I don't think the Queen can do anything right now :(

It upsets and worries me as well, to see how much some islamic people hate us, the western world, especially as many of those who hate our way of living are living amongst us & I fear the worst for the future.
I don't mean to start a religion war, but I felt obligied to respond to this post.:)

First of, publishing a picture of a prophet is very offensive to many--or all-- muslims around the world. Fine, a printing or a sketch of our beloved prophet can be forgiven BUT portraying him as TERRORIST????????That is just plain ignorant! Many around the world wonder why do all Muslims feel soo offended regarding the picture. I ask you, how would you feel if a muslim jounalist published a picture of Jesus and somehow altered the cross as a bomb? How would the Vatican react then? We all also understand the "Freedom of Press" but COME ON! If Danish press has the freedom to express their opnions then we should be able to express OUR opinions. In a world where we are seen as terrorists already, our prophet is deemed a terrorist as well? That is going a little too far.The thing that aggrivates me the most is that, fine, you printed the picture once, but AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN??? I don't know if anyone remember but, when Dixie Chicks were in England one time and they commented on how they aren't pround of how Bush is from Texas as well, all hell broke loose. What happened to Freedom of Speech then?
  #346  
Old 02-04-2006, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo

I don't think the Queen can do anything right now :(
Yes she can and Yes she should. First of, she is Head of State, so it's very much her bailiwick.
She would be wise to take a page out of Beatrix of the Netherlands's book. After the van Gogh murder a few years back, Beatrix did the right thing: the next days, she used to spearhead dialogue between the various immigrant groups and the rest of her nation. She showed her face, she went to the various neighborhoods in Amsterdam to talk to people in the immigrant communities. She showed that she cared, and she did the best thing possible: give the right example, namely that respectful dialogue is the only way to go for <all> parties. A wise, noble and right thing to do for a Head of State. I have had my doubts about Beatrix in the past, but that day, boy was I proud to have such a Queen.

The LEAST Queen M could do is sth of the sort: tell everyone to cool their horses and that insulting religions of all sorts (under the excuse of freedom of speech or whatever else) is just not respectful, period.

And about those cartoons: what I don't understand is that much of 'Europe' just doesn't grok, doesn't see, how intentionally racist these cartoons were. They were intentionally published to antagonize. Never a good thing. As Tony Blair--who I typically don't fancy-- rightly pointed out: "freedom of press doesn't mean the right to insult people's religions". And rightly so. Now--burning of embassies and the like is just as idiotic, but a Danish friend of mine said that she thinks that an economic boycot is what the Danish deserve--and described her nation as 'racist and arrogant' (not my own words as I have never lived in DK, but I'm quoting a native, folks!)

So in short, Queen Margarethe, Where ARe you? Show your face, be a uniting force, DO something.
  #347  
Old 02-04-2006, 05:10 PM
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Fine, a printing or a sketch of our beloved prophet can be forgiven BUT portraying him as TERRORIST????????
Then don't look at it. Denmark is not a muslim country. It has no obligation to follow muslim tradition. It's time some people started to remember that when they start calling for Danish leaders to be killed. And don't bring the Vatican into it. How did they react when Spitting Image portrayed John Paul II as a gangster rapper? They didn't. They ignored it. Margrethe shouldn't have to make a speech or statement but if she wants to then she should.
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  #348  
Old 02-04-2006, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
So in short, Queen Margarethe, Where ARe you? Show your face, be a uniting force, DO something.
Considering that it's nearing midnight in Copenhagen - what good would appearing now do?
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  #349  
Old 02-04-2006, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Then don't look at it. Denmark is not a muslim country. It has no obligation to follow muslim tradition. It's time some people started to remember that when they start calling for Danish leaders to be killed. And don't bring the Vatican into it. How did they react when Spitting Image portrayed John Paul II as a gangster rapper? They didn't. They ignored it. Margrethe shouldn't have to make a speech or statement but if she wants to then she should.
Hear, Hear!!
  #350  
Old 02-04-2006, 07:40 PM
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Does Queen Margrethe more political power than King Juan Carlos in Spain?
Prime Minister of Denmark gave a speech about it and I think that it was enough
  #351  
Old 02-04-2006, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraib
I don't mean to start a religion war, but I felt obligied to respond to this post.:)

First of, publishing a picture of a prophet is very offensive to many--or all-- muslims around the world. Fine, a printing or a sketch of our beloved prophet can be forgiven BUT portraying him as TERRORIST????????That is just plain ignorant! Many around the world wonder why do all Muslims feel soo offended regarding the picture. I ask you, how would you feel if a muslim jounalist published a picture of Jesus and somehow altered the cross as a bomb? How would the Vatican react then? We all also understand the "Freedom of Press" but COME ON! If Danish press has the freedom to express their opnions then we should be able to express OUR opinions. In a world where we are seen as terrorists already, our prophet is deemed a terrorist as well? That is going a little too far.The thing that aggrivates me the most is that, fine, you printed the picture once, but AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN??? I don't know if anyone remember but, when Dixie Chicks were in England one time and they commented on how they aren't pround of how Bush is from Texas as well, all hell broke loose. What happened to Freedom of Speech then?
I see the cartoon was offensive, bad taste and maybe even ignorant (though the entire goal of a cartoon is to simplify things, in this case the mis-use of muslim-fundamentalists of the word of the prophet) and I understand people are hurt by it. I am not to fond of the cartoons the Arabic/European movement has published now, about Anne Frank in bed with Hitler either, it hurts me a lot, as does the burning of the Daneborg and many other things. BUT if islamic groups feel hurt they should have taken legal action and go to a Danish court of justice, instead of demolishing & burning down ambassedes, looking in hotels for people to take hostage or to threaten to kill people.

I think there is a circle movement now, It was published, groups in the islamic world showed their grieviances rather openly and violently, which caused the press here to publish the things even more as they claimed the free word was in danger (as was the case with the slaughter of Theo van Gogh), which caused more anger among muslims, etc.

BTW I highly doubt that the statement of the dixie chicks caused 100.000's americans to threaten to kill the dixie chicks, or demolish the office of the record company of the dixie chicks etc. Apart from that, what has a group from Texas to do with Denmark?
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  #352  
Old 02-04-2006, 07:49 PM
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Who would be responsible for advising the Queen to make a comment or to remain silent? Would it be the Danish PM? And would anyone be involved in approving any comment the Queen might make?

And as I've learned from the What bothers you about Frederik and Mary thread, what is the feeling in Denmark regarding this situation? Do the Danes think that the cartoon was grossly inappropriate and should never have been printed or inappropriate but the right of individuals to express as they feel?

And do Danes feel that the Queen should make a public statement regarding this situation? Right after Diana died, Queen Elizabeth received a lot of public flack for not speaking up sooner publicly about Diana's passing.
  #353  
Old 02-04-2006, 07:52 PM
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In response to an earlier post: QMII can't do what QBeatrix did because the stakes are much higher. The incident in The Netherlands was relatively isolated in terms of international involvement. Denmark is now dealing with every other nation on earth either supporting it, or demanding its total destruction.

Also, I realize that the cartoons were offensive. But in Denmark and other western cultures, there is a very sophisticated way of thinking. It goes something like, "I don't support what you do, but I'll die to preserve your right to do so." The freedom of the press is a fundamental right in a democracy, and it's not up for debate. Some radical Muslims would like it to be, but it's not going to go away. Doing acts of terror (like burning down an embassy) will only make people more polarized against each other and all the more ardent about their rights to free expression.

Also, cartoon v. terror on foreign embassies. Riiiiiiight. I'm offended by constant calls to kill my president, my leaders, my fellow citizens, to wipe Denmark off the face of the earth, to have the heads of everyone involved in this exercise in free speech, but yeah - I don't get to go set fires, no matter how angry I get.

So I think this will become a matter of international relations very soon, and either action will be taken or it won't. As a pillar of light for the Danish people, I think they would be best served if QMII and her family remained safe rather than out in a very dangerous public.
  #354  
Old 02-04-2006, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
Yes she can and Yes she should. First of, she is Head of State, so it's very much her bailiwick.
She would be wise to take a page out of Beatrix of the Netherlands's book. After the van Gogh murder a few years back, Beatrix did the right thing: the next days, she used to spearhead dialogue between the various immigrant groups and the rest of her nation. She showed her face, she went to the various neighborhoods in Amsterdam to talk to people in the immigrant communities. She showed that she cared, and she did the best thing possible: give the right example, namely that respectful dialogue is the only way to go for <all> parties. A wise, noble and right thing to do for a Head of State. I have had my doubts about Beatrix in the past, but that day, boy was I proud to have such a Queen.

The LEAST Queen M could do is sth of the sort: tell everyone to cool their horses and that insulting religions of all sorts (under the excuse of freedom of speech or whatever else) is just not respectful, period.

And about those cartoons: what I don't understand is that much of 'Europe' just doesn't grok, doesn't see, how intentionally racist these cartoons were. They were intentionally published to antagonize. Never a good thing. As Tony Blair--who I typically don't fancy-- rightly pointed out: "freedom of press doesn't mean the right to insult people's religions". And rightly so. Now--burning of embassies and the like is just as idiotic, but a Danish friend of mine said that she thinks that an economic boycot is what the Danish deserve--and described her nation as 'racist and arrogant' (not my own words as I have never lived in DK, but I'm quoting a native, folks!)

So in short, Queen Margarethe, Where ARe you? Show your face, be a uniting force, DO something.
I think that most of her countrymen would not appreciate a lecture of the Queen about THEIR values, while there are people all over the world insulting and threatening the danish, it would feel like a sort of open betrayal.

BTW In the Netherlands Queen Beatrix also faced critisism for only going to islamic minorities and NOT to the relatives of the slaughtered filmmaker Theo van Gogh or to the team of policemen who arrested the fundamentalist killer of the filmmaker etc.
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  #355  
Old 02-04-2006, 08:04 PM
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BTW In the Netherlands Queen Beatrix also faced critisism for only going to islamic minorities and NOT to the relatives of the slaughtered filmmaker Theo van Gogh or to the team of policemen who arrested the fundamentalist killer of the filmmaker etc.
When Queen Elizabeth went to visit a gurdwara, she was asked to remove her shoes and cover her head with a scarf. People were outraged at the photographs of her wearing this ghastly shawl thing and pottering around in her socks. The problem is, that in Europe there is talk of integration, integration, integration. But neither side wants that. Immigrants, and lets be honest here - thats the group we're discussing, seem to want to force their traditions onto countries and make them protect them but the other side want their traditions protected. So what do governments do? They bring in laws that say you HAVE to integrate. This whole thing is a coiled spring and the governments are pushing down on it harder and harder, forcing people to get along - it's going to bounce back and this could well be the start of an east vs west situation.

Now, Monarchs have to do what they're told. Queen Elizabeth wouldn't dare not obey the gurdwara staff. And if Margrethe has been told to keep quiet about these cartoons then she has to follow that. For security more than anything. She seems to be attending engagements reguarly and thats what is needed at the moment - normality and routine.
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  #356  
Old 02-04-2006, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
When Queen Elizabeth went to visit a gurdwara, she was asked to remove her shoes and cover her head with a scarf. People were outraged at the photographs of her wearing this ghastly shawl thing and pottering around in her socks. The problem is, that in Europe there is talk of integration, integration, integration. But neither side wants that. Immigrants, and lets be honest here - thats the group we're discussing, seem to want to force their traditions onto countries and make them protect them but the other side want their traditions protected. So what do governments do? They bring in laws that say you HAVE to integrate. This whole thing is a coiled spring and the governments are pushing down on it harder and harder, forcing people to get along - it's going to bounce back and this could well be the start of an east vs west situation.

Now, Monarchs have to do what they're told. Queen Elizabeth wouldn't dare not obey the gurdwara staff. And if Margrethe has been told to keep quiet about these cartoons then she has to follow that. For security more than anything. She seems to be attending engagements reguarly and thats what is needed at the moment - normality and routine.
i would agree with you but HM Queen dont listen to gurdwara staff when she visit there because she is Queen of England if HM Queen Margrethe will kept quiet like HM Queen Elizabeth did that
  #357  
Old 02-04-2006, 10:23 PM
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I agree the cartoons were offensive. I fail to see that launching a jihad is an appropriate response by the middle eastern muslims. The message being broadcast to the world by the muslim demonstrations is one of social incontinence, intolerance, and ignorance. We in the USA suffered from this extreme religion and its world view when the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were attacked in 2001. Most muslim countries are very oppressive towards women....Queen MII is wise to remain silent. Having a woman make any kind of address to these people would add more fuel to the fire. And as for the Dixie Chicks reference...I live in Texas and I did not vote for Mr. Bush. However, we in the USA have a long traditiion of respecting the office while "talking stink" about the office holder.
  #358  
Old 02-05-2006, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraib
Fine, a printing or a sketch of our beloved prophet can be forgiven BUT portraying him as TERRORIST????????That is just plain ignorant! Many around the world wonder why do all Muslims feel soo offended regarding the picture. [...] I ask you, how would you feel if a muslim jounalist published a picture of Jesus and somehow altered the cross as a bomb? How would the Vatican react then? We all also understand the "Freedom of Press" but COME ON! If Danish press has the freedom to express their opnions then we should be able to express OUR opinions.
1. Cartoons exaggerate. That is their function. They should make you think. So they should make you think whether there is a connection between the Muslim faith and terrorism. You can answer yes or no to that question.
2. If a muslim journalist pulished a picture of Jesus and altered the cross as a bomb I would respect his freedom of speech. Plain and simply. The vatican wouldn't stage demonstrations or threaten to kill those people either. Most Christians wouldn't turn to violence either.
3. Sure you have the right to express your opinions. If you turn to violence, however, that is unlawful and only reinforces the criticism of Islam.

I know this is not related in any way to the topic of royalty, so feel free to remove the post. I do think, however, that I had to answer to this post.
  #359  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:22 AM
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The Regent couple will inaugurate Rembrandt Exhibition, at State Museum of Art, Copenhagen, 19.30
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  #360  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:39 AM
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Is it me or is Her Majesty's hair getting taller?
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