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  #61  
Old 06-04-2007, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras
Hi Waxxwing, welcome to forums!

I disagree with you slightly. When Marie and Joachim broke up for several months I don't think it was because she talked to much, I believe they rushed into their relationship too fast. Or, perhaps they really didn't break up in the first place, when in fact, they were actully secretly together.

By telling the media they are no longer together it would allow the couple to get to know each other, without the papparzzi trailing their every move.

Yes that is very logical.

BTW, it's almost creepy how alike Mary and Marie are in physical and in things like their names and birthdays. Isn't Marie the French form of Mary? But they are probably different in personalities, both in their own way. It would be VERY odd if they have alike personalities too!
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  #62  
Old 06-04-2007, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by acdc1
Yes that is very logical.

BTW, it's almost creepy how alike Mary and Marie are in physical and in things like their names and birthdays. Isn't Marie the French form of Mary? But they are probably different in personalities, both in their own way. It would be VERY odd if they have alike personalities too!
They do look alike but I don't think it is that odd. Perhaps the brothers have the same tastes in women. And yes, Marie is the French version of Mary.
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  #63  
Old 06-04-2007, 07:46 PM
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We have been seeing a lot of Marie lately, and if I were to judge her solely by what we have read and heard, I would say that she is much more outgoing, vulernable, and confident than Mary when she was at the beginning stages of her relationship with Frederik.

If you remember, Mary was very discrete and not as forthcoming to the media like Marie. From my observation, Mary was somewhat shy, unsure, and she always seemed to be hiding behind Frederik when they would go places and the media was there. However, a couple of months before their engagement was announced, Mary seemed to come out from behind Frederik's shoulder. She was more confident, very bold, than say, five months earlier. Sure she was still smiling and always kind towards the media, but something had changed. Her strides changed, her head was held up high, and she was basically a more confident woman.

Marie, on the other hand, has always been open since she first opened her mouth, walking with confidence as she marches next to Joachim. You can really see that she is proud to be with him and in love. Nice.

As time goes on, I've changed my mind about Marie. At first, she irritated me. Now, not so much. She's good for Joachim; he seems more bold, bouncy, fit, and essentially very happy to have her as his companion. Good for them.





What does everybody else think?
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  #64  
Old 06-04-2007, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras
As time goes on, I've changed my mind about Marie. At first, she irritated me. Now, not so much. She's good for Joachim; he seems more bold, bouncy, fit, and essentially very happy to have her as his companion. Good for them.





What does everybody else think?
I have to echo you there. I really didn't like Marie in the beginning, but then something changed. I really think she's a genuinely nice person who just can't help herself! Yes, Mary was the MODEL of discretion when she dated Fred and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the reason she ended up with the ring on her finger. But, keep in mind that Joachim doesn't need another Mary (at least in personality). He is a little more free than Fred in that regard. I couldn't see Marie is the next CP of Denamark. But as Joachim's wife, sure!

Look, Joachim already had the "prefect princess" with Alex. She by all standards should have been perfect for him. I admit I wasn't following royalty back in 1995, but from what I've seen in pics, Alex carried herself well, was discreet, learned the language, had style and flair, etc. And it didn't work out. I've read that Marie went to finishing school, so if that's true, believe me, she knows how to act when it counts! I think any one of us who was caught up in a new relationship with a prince or celebrity would take a bit of time to adjust to the new attention. I'm sure in time, Marie will blossom as Mary did.

One more thing! Mary may have appeared to be shy and quiet and discreet but remember, the press didn't meet her until 1.5 years into the relationship. Mary had a lot of time to wrap her mind around the possibility of being the next CP of Denmark and (please don't stone me because I adore Mary) I think Mary knew what she was doing. She is not the CP of Denmark simply by luck or love. That's all I'm going to say about that. It is clear Marie is maturing. Can't wait to see what develops.
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  #65  
Old 06-04-2007, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras
As time goes on, I've changed my mind about Marie. At first, she irritated me. Now, not so much. She's good for Joachim; he seems more bold, bouncy, fit, and essentially very happy to have her as his companion. Good for them.





What does everybody else think?
I was surprised when she gave the first interview; I thought the relationship wouldn't survive such an indiscretion but to my surprise it did; and I began to think that the emotional bonds between Joachim and Marie were stronger than I saw at the time.

I think Marie is an incredibly open person; whereas Mary and to a lesser extent Alexandra were more reserved and Marie's openness seems to relax Joachim a bit. She's not naughty and she doesn't do incredibly embarassing things, she just speaks her heart out which can cause an awkwardness sometimes.

But even Mary has conducted an embarassing interview and survived it but I think all the women that have married into the Danish Royal Family have incredibly good hearts in their own way. They're all different personalities though.
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  #66  
Old 06-04-2007, 10:29 PM
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One more thing! Mary may have appeared to be shy and quiet and discreet but remember, the press didn't meet her until 1.5 years into the relationship. Mary had a lot of time to wrap her mind around the possibility of being the next CP of Denmark and (please don't stone me because I adore Mary) I think Mary knew what she was doing. She is not the CP of Denmark simply by luck or love. That's all I'm going to say about that. It is clear Marie is maturing. Can't wait to see what develops.
No one will stone you, BurberryBrit . Nonetheless, you are right, she did have a lot to think about in the beginning. Once she finally landed in Denmark, she was still very reserved and understandably so. Did she know what she was doing? Some would say YES because of her background in PR while others would disagree.

Marie, is naturally outgoing, completely opposite to Mary. Marie is vulnerable, very much an everyday girl/no "airs" about her. Perhaps that is why some liked her right off the bat.

It will be very interesting to see what the next few months will bring. Will Joachim propose? Will the wedding have all the royal bells and whistles? Or will it be a simple one with only close relatives and family? How big will her tiara be? Will she become HRH Princess Marie Agathe (suspiciously hinted by "a good friend" of the DRWs magblog), HH Princess Marie Agathe, or Countess of Schackenborg? How will the Danes respond to her and I don't mean the royal watchers either. Will she be embraced by the rest of the royal family? What kind of relationship will she have with Mary? Will they get along? Will the media play the two against each other?

I could go on and on.

DRWs posted the entire article from Billed Bladet on June 2 and I found some of the commentary quite interesting. Here's a snippet of what the journalist has to say:

Quote:
Marie Cavallier has established a solid network of friends in Denmark. Prince Joachim has helped her with that by quietly introducing her to the friends he himself has had through the years and who have supported him faithfully. Several of them he has known since the years when he was a boy at Krebs Skole (where Nikolai and Felix now attend).

Many of the friends are also close to Alexandra and so it’s completely normal that Marie and Alexandra now share several Danish (female) friends.
Marie is close to Britt Tang Lassen, Henriette Steenstrup, Benedcite Darsberg and Maria Bast, among others, who Alexandra has had as her most intimate friends since her arrival in Denmark.
Camilla Barfoed is also a friend and Marie and Joachim went to the Sunday morning christening of her baby.

Marie Cavallier seems ready to take the leap from her small apartment in Geneva in Switzerland to bigger surroundings in Denmark.
Prince Joachim too seems ready, says Ulriksen, he’d rather not be without Marie for too long.
With all of the frequent flyer miles she's been racking up lately, I think it's high time she get it over with, and move to Denmark . Enough of this nonsense and move already.




Quote:
But even Mary has conducted an embarassing interview and survived it...
Which one, Ysbel?


Quote:
but I think all the women that have married into the Danish Royal Family have incredibly good hearts in their own way. They're all different personalities though.

I completely agree.


Thoughts anyone? I would love to hear what others have to say.
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  #67  
Old 06-05-2007, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras

Thoughts anyone? I would love to hear what others have to say.
I think Mary knew from the beginning that she was not only in love with a man and thinking about a common future, but that she was going to marry so much more. Especially duties. Mary, apart from being a warm-hearted family woman, IMHO is a very correct and dutiful person who has a deep interest in the image she is projecting. Hence her studies in law and PR. When I look at the first pictures of the RF with her, I see somebody who is very serious in trying to behave and look absolutely correct - that's why a lot of these pics make her look arrogant. I don't think Mary ever was interested in the fame she could have had as Fred's girlfriend - she was interested to figure out if she could hold on to a potential promise at the altar. To not only be Fred's love but his wife and princess. I think she managed perfectly - and the more security she finds in her position, the more of the "real" Mary emerges. A woman who embraces her man, her new family and her new country. And one who has smiles and understanding for us Royal watchers.

As for Marie: her position is completely different. Her relationship with Joachim is much more private than that of Fred and Mary. Joachim already has fulfilled his duties to his country. He is the father of two sons, he is the uncle of a prince and princess who are in front of him in the line of succession, he already had married the "perfect princess" for Denmark. Now he can opt for a girlfriend who is fun to be with. He can take his time to get to know her and to dream together with her of a common future and if she is not the perfect princess, so what - they can both become Count and Countess who live in the countryside as a gentleman-farmer and his wife.
All that will not change the fact that Joachim is the son of the queen and brother/uncle of the next kings. But still there is much less pressure on him and Marie.

My opinion: let them enjoy their life together - it's so nice to see them together.

As for the question of a title for Marie if she marries Joachim: I'M convinced that the queen will find just the right solution to make these two happy. And it's only them that counts.
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  #68  
Old 06-05-2007, 04:44 AM
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Jo of Palatine,

Receive a cyberhug from me. I agree 100% with your view of Mary and Marie. You have said exactly what I wanted to but couldn't find the right words.

Thank you, thank you.

Stellad
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  #69  
Old 06-05-2007, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras
Which one, Ysbel?
The interview when Mary first got engaged when she said her home was going to be a no-nanny zone.
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  #70  
Old 06-05-2007, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
When I look at the first pictures of the RF with her, I see somebody who is very serious in trying to behave and look absolutely correct -
In Mary's first pictures with the DRF that would be understandable because she was appearing in public with them for the first time. Marie hasn't appeared with the DRF in public yet as far as I know and we may see some of the same from her. But I agree they seem like different personalities

I don't know if Mary had thought everything out from the beginning. Some of her steps in the beginning didn't seem well thought out. But I think she had an instinct for reading a situation and putting together a look and an image that fit the situation. To me it looked like she first thought it would be great fun to marry a prince and then later as she got to know him and his family, she found they had a lot in common.

The Danish Royal Family has always been adept at creating good PR itself and they seem to enjoy creating an image that captures the public's imagination. So I think the marriage had more to do with kindred spirits.

Given the DRF's flair for promotion, I was curious to see how they'd handle Marie's little publicity faux-pas but it didn't seem to bother them. So I do think that the fact that this is a second marriage for Joachim and that he is a second son, has a lot to do with the DRF's relaxed attitude over the relationship.
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  #71  
Old 06-05-2007, 06:07 AM
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Could you give a link to that "embarrassing" interview and especially the part where she said "her home was going to be a no-nanny zone"?
Because I think this is one of her most (mis)quoted sentences and it would be nice to see what she actually has said and what was so embarrassing.
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  #72  
Old 06-05-2007, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
I think Mary knew from the beginning that she was not only in love with a man and thinking about a common future, but that she was going to marry so much more. Especially duties. Mary, apart from being a warm-hearted family woman, IMHO is a very correct and dutiful person who has a deep interest in the image she is projecting. Hence her studies in law and PR. When I look at the first pictures of the RF with her, I see somebody who is very serious in trying to behave and look absolutely correct - that's why a lot of these pics make her look arrogant. I don't think Mary ever was interested in the fame she could have had as Fred's girlfriend - she was interested to figure out if she could hold on to a potential promise at the altar. To not only be Fred's love but his wife and princess. I think she managed perfectly - and the more security she finds in her position, the more of the "real" Mary emerges. A woman who embraces her man, her new family and her new country. And one who has smiles and understanding for us Royal watchers.
Wonderful said, thank you Jo of Palatine.

I remember when I stumbled over this royal message boards I found also the Jewelery Board. If people don't believe me, they can go and ask the person in question.

Late in September 2003 I found a post of a certain well known danish jewelery expert. He wrote more or less this:
Some people think that Crown Prince Frederik was unable to decice if he wanted Mary Donaldson as his bride or not. This was not so. It was Mary Donaldson who wanted to know what kind of life she would have on his side. She could not decide.
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  #73  
Old 06-05-2007, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
The interview when Mary first got engaged when she said her home was going to be a no-nanny zone.
There is no mention of that at all in her interview. This is the engagement interview which was kindly translated by Bis and Netty.

Frederik & Mary
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  #74  
Old 06-05-2007, 06:22 AM
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ricarda, you perhaps know more about the initial interview than I do so perhaps you can provide some background on it.

I still think it would be equally embarassing for Mary if she didn't mean it and as you say, it has become the most mis-quoted sentence in her history.

In an interview, a public person wants what they say to be understood and if Mary's statement was so mis-quoted and mis-understood as you say it was, the interview wasn't as good as it could have been and can lead to embarassment.

The same thing with Marie when she gave her first interview. She wanted the people to see how warm, friendly, and down to earth she was but that wasn't the image that came across.

These aren't terrible mistakes and the ladies have pretty much overcome them.
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  #75  
Old 06-05-2007, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
ricarda, you perhaps know more about the initial interview than I do so perhaps you can provide some background on it.
I'm not ricarda, still here is what I know about this statement.

To my knowledge it's based on a statment made during a very long interview (24 hours) for the Ninka book. There Mary said that her kids wouldn't be raised by nannies. This is total different to a nanny free zone. Using a nanny is one thing let the kids be raised by nannies is at least to me something else. Especially the austrailian papers wrote nearly immediately about the nanny free zone. This is if I remember right an exact qoute of one of this papers.
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Old 06-05-2007, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Binz
I'm not ricarda, still here is what I know about this statement.

To my knowledge it's based on a statment made during a very long interview (24 hours) for the Ninka book. There Mary said that her kids wouldn't be raised by nannies. This is total different to a nanny free zone. Using a nanny is one thing let the kids be raised by nannies is at least to me something else. Especially the austrailian papers wrote nearly immediately about the nanny free zone. This is if I remember right an exact qoute of one of this papers.
That's a shame she was misquoted but I still think its an embarassing situation for her to be in-probably moreso if she was mis-quoted like that.
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  #77  
Old 06-05-2007, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by BurberryBrit
One more thing! Mary may have appeared to be shy and quiet and discreet but remember, the press didn't meet her until 1.5 years into the relationship. Mary had a lot of time to wrap her mind around the possibility of being the next CP of Denmark and (please don't stone me because I adore Mary) I think Mary knew what she was doing. She is not the CP of Denmark simply by luck or love. That's all I'm going to say about that.
Yes, but when the press finally met her Mary didn't react like she had thought everything through and knew what she was doing. She reacted as if the press was her enemy (remember that first pic with that defensive/angry look on her face). IMO if she really had thought everything through she would have reacted differently (more friendly but still reserved) because let's face it those princesses-to-be actually need the press as their allies to get a positive image on their way to the engagement (or they come as a surprise like Alexandra).

If I compare Mary with Diana or Kate Middleton for example I would say that Mary was not a "natural" in her relation to the media although she was working in PR. I think Mary really is a very reserved and introvert character which may have helped her on the one hand but on the other hand I do think that the Danish media did not seem to be so very fond of Mary in the beginning, perhaps because of her reservedness. They had to get used to her just like Mary had to get used to them. And I think somewhere on her way Mary started to like the attention and the media started to see her as the "perfect crown princess".

Marie really seems totally different to me, a very extrovert character, taking things more easily, not media-shy at all and more confident (also more naive but not necessarily more vulnerable). And I personally feel that she has success with that, at least when it comes to the media. They are actually very positive about her and the positive coverage has an influence on how people see her. Of course she is not going to be the crownprincess and that's why her "mistakes" are forgiven more easily. I think if Mary had done such interviews and photo sessions after 10 months and before she told Frederik she loved him then that would have been it - the end.
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:49 AM
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There's my opinion on this I didn't like Marie at the start after her I love him but I haven't told him yet comment but she seems to have learnt from her mistake and Joachim seems very happy with her, so good luck to them.
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Old 06-06-2007, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by lise
There's my opinion on this I didn't like Marie at the start after her I love him but I haven't told him yet comment but she seems to have learnt from her mistake and Joachim seems very happy with her, so good luck to them.
As for that stupid remark: there was a French woman talking to a Danish reporter, maybe in English, maybe in French. Who's to say that they got her answer the way it was meant? Maybe she said smilingly, I love him but he doesn't know it yet meaning I haven't convinced him yet. After all, they separated shortly after, maybe because of issues of belief in the other's affection....

IMHO people don't separate because of the media but because of the revealing things the media is able to tell about the other or about the situation they're in. Eg William and Kate: Kate said nothing ever to the media but through the harrassment Kate received William realized that their relationship could not go on that way and that he was not willing to tie the knot. But I'm not sure that Joachim and Marie separated because of the media. Maybe she realized that being his girlfriend means more than she was willing to take on at that time.
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Old 06-06-2007, 05:20 AM
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Do you think she will be invited to the Christianing?
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