Prince Joachim and Marie Cavallier, Current Events 1: September 2005 - May 2007

[ysbel]

Don´t forget that Joachim and Marie don´t see each other very often.
This is a long distance relationship. It also makes sense if Marie always shows her best side to Joachim when they meet.

And I also agree that Marie is an attention seeker. Of course she is. Compared to Mary´s behavior before her wedding, this fact is very obvious.

It´s natural that we speculate and make theories about Marie here. Otherwise it wouldn´t be called the royal forum, would it? For example, some people here also consider themselves know more/better about Alexandras personality and motivations than Prince Joachim and the DRF.

So that means that people here who have never met Marie at all STILL know Marie better than Joachim does who may have seen her at least a little over the last year.

All that despite the fact that everything we know about Marie comes to us second or third hand from media reports because we've seen nothing except what the media has chosen to let us see. They're in business to sell papers. Let me put it this way, Joachim has seen Marie a lot more than any of us and even if she is putting on appearances in front of him, he has more information to actually judge her than we do.

There's no guarantee that even a published interview faithfully reprints everything Marie says in the context in which she's given. What seems so obvious to you could well be just the result of whatever public relations angle a paper or magazine decides to take with a Marie and Joachim story and have nothing to do with the people themselves.

I enjoy speculating about the royals myself; I just don't have the arrogance in believing that based on a few Billet Bladet pictures and interviews that I know more about Joachim's girlfriend than he does.

 

[Heike]

So that means that people here who have never met Marie at all STILL know Marie better than Joachim does who may have seen her at least a little over the last year.

All that despite the fact that everything we know about Marie comes to us second or third hand from media reports because we've seen nothing except what the media has chosen to let us see. They're in business to sell papers. Let me put it this way, Joachim has seen Marie a lot more than any of us and even if she is putting on appearances in front of him, he has more information to actually judge her than we do.

There's no guarantee that even a published interview faithfully reprints everything Marie says in the context in which she's given. What seems so obvious to you could well be just the result of whatever public relations angle a paper or magazine decides to take with a Marie and Joachim story and have nothing to do with the people themselves.

I enjoy speculating about the royals myself; I just don't have the arrogance in believing that based on a few Billet Bladet pictures and interviews that I know more about Joachim's girlfriend than he does.

People choose to believe what they want to believe.
I believe that Joachim hasn´t found out that Marie is an attention seeker.
Just like some people believe that Alex married Joachim not because of love but because she wants to become a princess.
It´s also possible that Joachim knows Marie is an attention seeker, but he doesn´t care at all.
I only pointed out that there exists the possibility that Joachim still has no chance to find out she is an attention seeker. This is my personal speculation. Of course it´s also possible that Marie is not an attention seeker at all, but I personally believe she is. I didn´t say that people here know Marie better than Joachim.
You overexplained my post.

 

[UserDane]

That may be true but that's not exactly what I meant. I meant that unless the Queen has said anything, there's a good chance we don't know exactly what she thinks about Joachim's and Marie relationship?

Sorry, don't quite understand what you mean then.
In my reply I meant that the queen has never commented on any relationship - real or imaginary - which her sons have been involved in - until in two cases practically up to the time of their engagements. Her silence is therefore open to interpretation, I think.

Marie IMO isn't doing anything all that bad. I dont' even see her promoting herself l ike some others women have done in the past with various royals. I think she's very very naive, but also happy-go-lucky. When I see her pics, I don't see opportunist. I think she's caught up in the whole fairytale thing of dating a Prince. Whether or not she will last, I can't say. I am liking her more with each new article or picture.

I tend to agree with you Burberry. And people do and say things they haven't really thought through when they are infatuated/in love. Most of us just get to do it outside the media's attention.

 

[ricarda]

I don't think Marie is that much of an attention seeker.
Her situation is not easy.
Here she is in love with a prince (and somehow I believe she does love him)
whose former wife is still very popular in Denmark and
well known for being "always accessible for the press" (quotation from Point de Vue).
What is Marie supposed to do?
Let's face it, the media can destroy a relationship by writing negative about a person.
Actually Marie can't be the "distant Mary" some on this board want her to be, she has to be more like the "accessible Alexandra".
That's what the media is used to with Joachim's partner.

Perhaps Marie overdid it a bit in the beginning.
And therefore my own feelings towards her were quite negative and I am still quite sceptical whether she is "Princess"-material or not.
But actually I think the press is writing very positively about her, so her strategy seems to work.
What would they have written if she had answered with "no comment"?

 

[norwegianne]

What would they have written if she had answered with "no comment"?

Considering that the press managed to spin a new relationship for Joachim out of thin air after the divorce - with a girl who hadn't even met him - I think the press can manage to get whatever they want out of anything

 

[CPKatarina]

Joachim in Billed Bladet

There is an article about Joachim in today's Billed Bladet, http://www.billed-bladet.dk/default.asp?Ac...s&Item=4829.

Prins Joachim går og gemmer på en hemmelighed. En af den slags, der får ham til at smile: »Privat bliver det kommende år både spændende og udfordrende«...




I tried to use Internet Translator and got this

:

Prins Joachim leaves and keeps on a secret. One of the kind, who causes him to smile: "Private Residence bliver The Next Year both Exciting and Provocative". Prince Joachim was in a high mood, when BILLED-BLADET met him but in connection with Tønder Handelsskole's 100-year's jubilee a short, but very important remark.

Can someone HELP?

Thanks

 

[BurberryBrit]

That is really NOT a flattering picture.

 

[magnik]

I agree. Joachim looks little strange.

 

[Ctejnoe]

Prins Joachim går og gemmer på en hemmelighed. En af den slags, der får ham til at smile: »Privat bliver det kommende år både spændende og udfordrende«...
translates as:
Prince Joachim has a secret; a kind of secret that makes him smile: "Privately, the coming year will be both exciting and challenging"

could mean anything and nothing. More than likely nothing - i mean, he could be talking about just about everything under the sun.

Iam still negatively tuned towards Marie Cavallier... Cant quite get my head around her - The press is probably positive about cause she's a good story. Sells the papers - and they must love that she talks to them.

And off course its ok to base an opinion on the girl based on what is presented in the media: Firstly, she places herself there pretty openely. And secondly, isnt that what all our opinions are based on??? Isnt that what we do here? Its part of the fun...

 

[ysbel]

Sorry, don't quite understand what you mean then.
In my reply I meant that the queen has never commented on any relationship - real or imaginary - which her sons have been involved in - until in two cases practically up to the time of their engagements. Her silence is therefore open to interpretation, I think.

I totally agree with you that the queen's silence is open to interpretation; I was responding to your comment that Marie could take a page out of Queen Margrethe's book on being tight lipped. That may be true but I wasn't mentioning Queen Margrethe's silence as a recommendation for Marie to do the same. I only meant it in the context that with her silence its almost impossible to tell what the Queen thinks of Joachim's and Marie's relationship.

So we were saying the same thing.

 

[UserDane]

OK - got it this time - thanks.

 

[ysbel]

UserDane, going back to what you originally said:

Everybody, what do you think would be the public reaction if the couple announced their engagement?

Would there be public well wishing or would it cause a controversy? Or perhaps a public well wishing with private misgivings?

I don't think it would cause a controversy; Alexandra seems to be at a place where she can continue her role as a princess or withdraw more if she wants to - so it won't appear as if she is been 'squeezed' out by a new wife for Joachim.
If Joachim and Marie marry, the media will probably just start another round of expectant calls for new babies and keep the public entertained that way

Do you think that people's perception of Marie is based partly on how Alexandra will fare in all of this? Sometimes it seems like people don't want Joachim to get married again unless he re-marries Alexandra and it seems awfully similar to the Brit fans who don't want Prince Andrew marrying again unless he re-marries his first wife Sarah.

I wonder if its because people get used to seeing a couple together, then when they split up, people still see them as together when they're not.

 

[Heike]

I don´t think Alexandra will get together with Joachim again because she seems to be happy with Martin.

 

[pollyemma]

There's a reason she was photographed at the window: she wanted the world to know she was there. I don't remember Mary being seen at intimate family events like that when she was dating Fred. Marie needs to show some discretion. No one else was seen at the window.

I really think you're drawing a hasty conclusion there. she may well just have looked out the window for a second to see something. that's not a crime. many royal persons have been photographed at windows. it doesnt mean they stood there especially to be photographed.

and is it so bad to enjoy the attention, really? I think if you werent born royal, you have to-on some level- enjoy the attention to preserve your sanity.

Marie hasn't said anything even remotely controversial. That speaks well for her. If joachim strongly objected to her speaking to the media, he would tell her to stop or break up with her.

I think this couple has made a joint decision to be open about their relationship. Maybe Joachim even encourages her to talk to the media so that he won't have to?

 

[Heike]

Marie hasn't said anything even remotely controversial. That speaks well for her. If joachim strongly objected to her speaking to the media, he would tell her to stop or break up with her.

I thought Joachim has brocken up with her and even revealed this news to the media.
It is only recently that they are a couple again.
When being asked who restarted the relationship, Marie refused to answer.

 

[pollyemma]

I thought Joachim has brocken up with her and even revealed this news to the media.
It is only recently that they are a couple again.
When being asked who restarted the relationship, Marie refused to answer.

well i think that's a sign of her discretion. she doesnt give intimate details of their relationships.

and as to who restarted the relationship: I think that's a moot point. they BOTH restarted the relationship. he(presumably) isn't forced to date her against his will. neither is she forced to date him. they both wanted to be together again so voila!

 

[UserDane]

Do you think that people's perception of Marie is based partly on how Alexandra will fare in all of this? Sometimes it seems like people don't want Joachim to get married again unless he re-marries Alexandra and it seems awfully similar to the Brit fans who don't want Prince Andrew marrying again unless he re-marries his first wife Sarah.

I wonder if its because people get used to seeing a couple together, then when they split up, people still see them as together when they're not.

I don't think I know anyone who now feels strongly about Joachim and Alexandra getting together again.
IMO, the sightings of Alexandra together with Martin Jørgensen has made it quite clear that Joachim and Alexandra as a couple is a thing of the past.
Seeing Joachim and Alexandra together with their children is - I think - positive to most Danes in terms of their children's wellbeing.
Being responsible parents who can be civil in each other's company - together with their children - counts for a lot, but does not necessarily mean that people think they will patch things up again as a couple IMO.

There seems to most focus on Joachim's love life now. He's still young and may start another family - and provide some more baby hype

 

[Heike]

I agree generally with UserDane.
But I don´t know if the DRF can afford to pay another ex-wife of Joachim if he divorces again.
He must be very sure the next time when he remarries.
Does anyone know if Nikolai and Felix will recieve allowance from the state when they grow up? Or they have to earn their own living?

 

[H.M. Margrethe]

I agree generally with UserDane.
But I don´t know if the DRF can afford to pay another ex-wife of Joachim if he divorces again.
He must be very sure the next time when he remarries.
Does anyone know if Nikolai and Felix will recieve allowance from the state when they grow up? Or they have to earn their own living?

I don´t think they are going to recive anny allowance from the state when they are growing up. It depence if they are going to do som of the work as their parrents are doing.
Take HH Princess Elisabeth she is doing a littel bit of work,but she are reciving her pension from her olde work as the Foreign Secretary.

 

[pollyemma]

I agree generally with UserDane.
But I don´t know if the DRF can afford to pay another ex-wife of Joachim if he divorces again.
He must be very sure the next time when he remarries.
Does anyone know if Nikolai and Felix will recieve allowance from the state when they grow up? Or they have to earn their own living?

I'm sure they will carefully craft a pre-nup that will reflect his current financial situation.

and let's not feel too sorry for joachims money woes. Sure joachim suffered financially (as most people do when they divorce.) But he still has way more money than people making minimum wage at fast food restaurants. Especially in a country with generous social benefits like Denmark, I'm sure he could easily afford a few more children.

 

[BurberryBrit]

I really think you're drawing a hasty conclusion there. she may well just have looked out the window for a second to see something. that's not a crime. many royal persons have been photographed at windows. it doesnt mean they stood there especially to be photographed.

and is it so bad to enjoy the attention, really? I think if you werent born royal, you have to-on some level- enjoy the attention to preserve your sanity.

Marie hasn't said anything even remotely controversial. That speaks well for her. If joachim strongly objected to her speaking to the media, he would tell her to stop or break up with her.

I think this couple has made a joint decision to be open about their relationship. Maybe Joachim even encourages her to talk to the media so that he won't have to?

I don't think I'm drawing a hasty conclusion since it's based on my opinion. I do think Marie needs to show more discretion, but at the same time, there is something natural about her. I do think she's genuinely caught up in the romance with Joachim. I dont know if Joachim would tell her to be the front man and speak about their relationship, but it's clear they have decided it's okay to talk a little about their love. She has toned it done a little and I like her more and more.

 

[pollyemma]

I do think Marie needs to show more discretion, but at the same time, there is something natural about her .

I agree. and its that naturalness that I'm drawn to. she seems like a sweet person who I'd like to know. I really hope they're happy and that if they do marry people will judge her on own merits and not on how she compares to Alexandra.

 

[BurberryBrit]

I think she should get a page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Cavallier

 

[pollyemma]

I think she should get a page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Cavallier

did you just put that together? its really cool!

 

[princess olga]

I think she should get a page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Cavallier

Just learned from your wikipedia article that Marie's birthday is the 5th of February. So is Mary Donaldson's!! Eerie!

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Billad Bladet has a new story about the couple:

Read more about it here: http://www.billed-bladet.dk/default.asp?Action=Details&Item=4829

The English translation can be found here:
http://danishroyalwatchers.blogspot.com/

 

[BurberryBrit]

I wonder what made their year so challenging? The press? Maybe Margrethe disapproved? Maybe it was Marie's talking to the press? And I wonder why he predicts this year will be just as challenging? A "new" relationship shouldn't be too heavy. Hopefully, they will find out if they really want to be together once and for all.

 

[princess olga]

I wonder what made their year so challenging? The press? Maybe Margrethe disapproved? Maybe it was Marie's talking to the press? And I wonder why he predicts this year will be just as challenging? A "new" relationship shouldn't be too heavy. Hopefully, they will find out if they really want to be together once and for all.

Can;t speak for them of course, but here's my 2 cents.

It's a pity for Joachim he prefers petite, exotic brunettes to Danish homegrown stock, and not because I have anything against ladies such as Alexandra or Marie, both of whom I think would be great princess material 'an sich'.

The thing though, is this.

1.The reality of living with Joachim is living on a de facto farm, no matter how charming, is in a tiny village in the middle of nowhere in Denmark (which in itself is the middle of nowhere depending on your outlook--just my opinion! Nothing against lovely Denmark, a wonderful place to visit!)

Joachim <is> a farmer, by profession. AND he spends most of his time at Schakenborg, not at his apartment in Copenhagen.

So that's the conundrum here. For this all to work, he would need a partner who is an outdoorsy type who enjoys living in the middle of nowhere.

But that's asking a lot from a woman who, in both Marie's and Alexandra's case, seem:

1. City women
2. who, on top of this, would feel isolated enough moving to a completely other country and culture in and by itself, let alone moving to the middle of nowhere.

How would that work in practise? Marie spending her days raising kids in the middle of nowhere, Denmark, where she has no friends and nothing to do besides those kids? I think that <that> was a huge factor in the brakeup with Alexandra if you ask me!
I mean, let's say Marie would move to Copenhagen and marry J. And let's say she'd get a job in Copenhagen. That would mean, for them, that <she> would be spending her days in the city, working, and <he> would be spending his days some 300 miles away on the farm.

Again, I think there's a dichotomy here between Joachim's lifestyle, rural etc., and the delicate, foreign city-girls he's always drawn to. I think there's a real gap there and that's why it's just not going to be easy.

It just would be easier for a Danish-born girl who would at least be at home in the culture and speak the language. So that would be one barrier removed. That leaves the barrier of living in the countryside in the middle of nowhere.

 

[BurberryBrit]

Can't Joachim just move closer to Copenhagen? Or another city instead of a rural farm?

 

[Lakshmi]

I don't think Joachim ever would move to the city. He seems a farmer born.
Interesting thing that he likes women that are opposite to him. Both Marie and Alexandra indeed seem liking city life. Both women seems to have temper while Joachim is is more phlegmatic(no pan intended).