Prince Gustav and Carina Axelsson, Current Events & Discussion 1: July 2007-Aug 2009

[ashelen]

he could do like my danish grandfathre, my grandmother was the governest of the house, they wouldn't allow the marriage, so he took off, married with her love but of course, lost all the money!

 

[michelleq]

He loves her, but I don't think that he will give up the manor for love. Just my honest opinion. I think that they will do as his great uncle, Bertil did and wait until he can marry her as Prince Bertil did to marry Princess Lillian.

 

[HRH Kerry]

Well, it seems that the DRF is behind them. I hope it doesn't turn into another Bertil and Lillian. Sad. They might have to sacrifice if they want children together.

 

[michelleq]

I hope so also. He should be able to marry whom he may. Maybe they are waiting for the uncle to pass since he has made no bones to the fact that he is having the will upheld. Horrible how greed and/or spitefulness will give license to a person to do such a thing. I naturally would forgive him but I would not want to be in his presence knowing the malice that he has in his heart.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Well, it seems that the DRF is behind them. I hope it doesn't turn into another Bertil and Lillian. Sad. They might have to sacrifice if they want children together.

The good thing in German law of today is that they can have children together and that Gustav could claim them as his and give them his name even though he is not married to their mother. So far I haven't heard of a S-W-B-house law that would deny these children the inheritance.

Bertil and Lillian had another problem: according to the Act of Succession valid back then, Bertil would have lost his rights to the throne on marrying Lilian, because only the king back then did not have to follow the rules of this act. All other potential heirs had done so, eg Lennart Bernadotte, and girls had not right of inheritance, so when Bertil's brother, the Crown Prince, died leaving only one son and four daughters, there was only the infant Carl Gustav and him to secure the monarchy in Sweden after king Gustav Adolf's death. In this situation both Bertil and Lilian put duty before their wish for a marriage.

And as soon as the Act of Succession had been changed after the new king Carl Gustav's marriage to Silvia, the king allowed Bertil to marry Lilian, for she had always been a favorite aunt to him, a great support for Silvia and had shown that she was willing to sacrifice her own social position for the sake fo the monarchy. It was only fitting that she should be the rest of her life HRH and Princess of Sweden.

 

[sneeuwklokje]

For Godsake, we are living in the year 2008. Let them marry and be happy. If I were a judge I would rule this will invalid straight away. We're not living in the middle ages anymore!!

 

[Jo of Palatine]

For Godsake, we are living in the year 2008. Let them marry and be happy. If I were a judge I would rule this will invalid straight away. We're not living in the middle ages anymore!!

The problem is that each person has a right to do with his/her private belongings whatever he/she wants to. You for example so not need to leave your son money if you simply don't want him to have it (apart from the amount your country's law grants him on being your child). Nobody has a right to question you why you don't want your son or anybody else to get something from you. It's your property and you deal with it as you like within the laws of your country.

But there are grounds on which to contest a will and the court has to prove if one of them apply in this case. For example your simply not liking your son would be a valid reason. But if you believed that your son is not your husband's child and you inherited your money from your husband's side and feel that this child should not have it and thus disinherit the child on telling why you did it - okay. But if it turned out later through DNA-testing that the child is in fact your husband's child then your reasoning would be wrong and your motive in error: that's one of the reasons the child could contest the will because on knowing the truth you would not have disinherited it.

So there could be stipulations that are according to the law and others that aren't. The court has to research, evaluate and judge if the stipulations are according to the law or not. But the person who made up the will has of course the right that his stipulations are being taken seriously, that they are carefully examinated and evaluated before being declared void. Even if people suffer for it - but they could walk away from that inheritance, couldn't they? Gustaf could marry Carina, there is no law against it. But he wants both: Carina and his inheritance and this is what keeps them from marrying, nothing else.

 

[michelleq]

The good thing in German law of today is that they can have children together and that Gustav could claim them as his and give them his name even though he is not married to their mother. So far I haven't heard of a S-W-B-house law that would deny these children the inheritance.

Bertil and Lillian had another problem: according to the Act of Succession valid back then, Bertil would have lost his rights to the throne on marrying Lilian, because only the king back then did not have to follow the rules of this act. All other potential heirs had done so, eg Lennart Bernadotte, and girls had not right of inheritance, so when Bertil's brother, the Crown Prince, died leaving only one son and four daughters, there was only the infant Carl Gustav and him to secure the monarchy in Sweden after king Gustav Adolf's death. In this situation both Bertil and Lilian put duty before their wish for a marriage.

And as soon as the Act of Succession had been changed after the new king Carl Gustav's marriage to Silvia, the king allowed Bertil to marry Lilian, for she had always been a favorite aunt to him, a great support for Silvia and had shown that she was willing to sacrifice her own social position for the sake fo the monarchy. It was only fitting that she should be the rest of her life HRH and Princess of Sweden.

I did not know all of the facts pertaining to Bertiland Lilian. How admirable and loving of them! Thank you!

 

[simon02]

Thanks also from me to Jo of Palatine for that very succinct summary of the situation in Sweden at the time. I'd pieced together most of the story from the Swedish forums, but I now understand why their concept of "duty" led to Lilian's place of honor even today within the Swedish family.

I, too, hope that this works out in Carina & Gustav's favor, as the wearing of the tiara at the wedding might seem to indicate. . .well, at least optimism about the outcome of the court case. I just didn't think that "optimism" alone would be sufficient to allow even her attendance at an "official" event.

Gustav is only a few months younger than CP Frederik, isn't he? It would seem quite difficult for them if they had to be in limbo for many more years, watching their cousins and friends marry while waiting for their own time to come.

 

[kimebear]

Forgive my ingnorance, but is the will just money related or does it also concern the title? I could see why Gustav would not want to throw his (non-reigning albeit) title away without a good fight, money or no money.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Forgive my ingnorance, but is the will just money related or does it also concern the title? I could see why Gustav would not want to throw his (non-reigning albeit) title away without a good fight, money or no money.

There is no title as Germany does not recognize noble titles anymore. He has just the name of prince, nothing more. His mother though is a real princess as Germany recognizes foreign Royal titles, so she is HRH princess Benedikte (of Denmark).

 

[michelleq]

Forgive my ingnorance, but is the will just money related or does it also concern the title? I could see why Gustav would not want to throw his (non-reigning albeit) title away without a good fight, money or no money.

I believe that it is the whole kit and kaboodle! There is the title, castle, acres of forrest, and I think a paper factory. I inquired in a earlier post, as to whether anyone knows (or can give an educated guess) the actual worth of the entire estate. We do know that land is money. Prince Richard, Gustav's father, had (has??) land/ranch in Canada that was sold in the early 90's. Maybe he has more outside of Germany but I do beleive I read somewhere that Gustav is the 5th largest owner of land in Germany. I can't remember what board that I read it on; possible Netty's or Anuschka's.

 

[sneeuwklokje]

Isn't the whole problem of this will that Prince Gustav's prospective bride doesn't meet the requirements of the will? Carina is A: not an "arian" (although I am sure that no judge today will agree to that, because it is sheer discrimination and also quite 'nazistic' (couldn't find a better word for it) and B: she is not of noble birth. Come on, this doesn't stand in this day and age does it??

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Lovely photos of the couple from tonight's 40th birthday bruhaha at Fredensborg for Crown Prince Frederik: [URL="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj201/kategt2/Carina%20Axelsson%20and%20Prince%20Gustav%20SWB/PPE08053168.jpg"]One[/URL], [URL="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj201/kategt2/Carina%20Axelsson%20and%20Prince%20Gustav%20SWB/PPE08053178.jpg"]two[/URL], and three.
*PPE

 

[Adelheid]

Hi everybody

Can you tell me how old is this Carina?

Thanks

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Some reports say that she is in her [URL="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj201/kategt2/Prince%20Joachim%20and%20Princess%20Marie%20of%20Denmark/carina.jpg"]early[/URL] [URL="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj201/kategt2/Carina%20Axelsson%20and%20Prince%20Gustav%20SWB/carinagustav.jpg"]30's[/URL]. However, in the article below the writer notes that she is 39 years old. So essentially nobody really knows at this point.
polfoto


Meanwhile, [URL="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj201/kategt2/Carina%20Axelsson%20and%20Prince%20Gustav%20SWB/50985888_16232674_widescreen.jpg"]Carina[/URL] is back on her book reading tour thingy around Germany. Once again she read from her Nigel series while Gustav was off doing somethingorother. According to Der Westen Carina Axelsson at the Berleburger City Library the author helps local students understand as well as practice their English. In the castle Berleburg lives an American children's book author who just read before a total of 200 primary school pupils in Bad Berleburger from her debut feature "Nigel of Hyde Park" and then answered the questions of children.

The first readinds shows how well the students learned English after two years. For Carina Axelsson, who is reading her native language, the students had understood exactly what the book is about. A little shy, green dragon with funky hair who is about to have his birthday and who is about to be crowned king in London's Hyde Park. This was his grandmother, the queen, wish. But Nigel feared not only against creepy ghosts, terrible monsters, eerie sounds and the darkness, but even before his own mirror image. Such a coward but may not become king, thinks the nasty Lord Black and Fox tries to Nigel einzujagen even more fear. Only a wise owl is able to Nigel in his imagination the fear and finally defeated brave. So brave that he even the nasty Lord Black saves from drowning and courageous King Nigel.

At the end of the first reading on Monday morning were the children of primary school Berghausen began to ask Carina Axelsson many questions. The life companion of Prince Gustav zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg obviously had fun and the children responded. However, the students wanted to know what it is like to live in a castle. "Beautiful. But we have no ghosts in the castle..." said the author. "It is also a lot of work to lived and keep up the castle in order to live, because there are so many rooms there, which should be kept shooting (?)..." said the 39-year-old, also had no problem with that they asked their age or thereafter whether she and Gustav wanted to marry. "Yes," said Axelsson and smiled, "but we do need a bit of time."

So what did the students also ask Carina? Prince Gustav was at a dinner with friends in Munich and she also said that she likes horses, writing, painting, and Iceland ponies (oooohhhkay.)

[URL="http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/bad-berleburg/2008/6/9/news-54255283/detail.html"]Link[/URL] and [URL="http://www.siegener-zeitung.de/nachrichten/aktuell/region/wittgenstein/detailansicht/article/95/nigel-und-das-grosse-geheimnis.html"]here[/URL]. Finally, you can view a set of photos [URL="http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/bad-berleburg/2008/6/9/news-54255283/slideshow.html?resourceId=3"]here[/URL] which you can see her giant ruby and diamond ring on her wedding finger.

 

[Adelheid]

Thank you very much GlitteringTiaras


I think Carina Axelsson is in her early 40's, this woman is a mystery, I can't understand why she was wearing a tiara at Joachims wedding.

Carina said: "we do need a bit of time" to marry, but she says she is 39 years old and what about Children?

 

[berry]

Some reports say that she is in her [URL="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj201/kategt2/Prince%20Joachim%20and%20Princess%20Marie%20of%20Denmark/carina.jpg"]early[/URL] [URL="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj201/kategt2/Carina%20Axelsson%20and%20Prince%20Gustav%20SWB/carinagustav.jpg"]30's[/URL]. However, in the article below the writer notes that she is 39 years old. So essentially nobody really knows at this point.
polfoto


Meanwhile, [URL="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj201/kategt2/Carina%20Axelsson%20and%20Prince%20Gustav%20SWB/50985888_16232674_widescreen.jpg"]Carina[/URL] is back on her book reading tour thingy around Germany. Once again she read from her Nigel series while Gustav was off doing somethingorother. According to Der Westen Carina Axelsson at the Berleburger City Library the author helps local students understand as well as practice their English. In the castle Berleburg lives an American children's book author who just read before a total of 200 primary school pupils in Bad Berleburger from her debut feature "Nigel of Hyde Park" and then answered the questions of children.

The first readinds shows how well the students learned English after two years. For Carina Axelsson, who is reading her native language, the students had understood exactly what the book is about. A little shy, green dragon with funky hair who is about to have his birthday and who is about to be crowned king in London's Hyde Park. This was his grandmother, the queen, wish. But Nigel feared not only against creepy ghosts, terrible monsters, eerie sounds and the darkness, but even before his own mirror image. Such a coward but may not become king, thinks the nasty Lord Black and Fox tries to Nigel einzujagen even more fear. Only a wise owl is able to Nigel in his imagination the fear and finally defeated brave. So brave that he even the nasty Lord Black saves from drowning and courageous King Nigel.

At the end of the first reading on Monday morning were the children of primary school Berghausen began to ask Carina Axelsson many questions. The life companion of Prince Gustav zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg obviously had fun and the children responded. However, the students wanted to know what it is like to live in a castle. "Beautiful. But we have no ghosts in the castle..." said the author. "It is also a lot of work to lived and keep up the castle in order to live, because there are so many rooms there, which should be kept shooting (?)..." said the 39-year-old, also had no problem with that they asked their age or thereafter whether she and Gustav wanted to marry. "Yes," said Axelsson and smiled, "but we do need a bit of time."

So what did the students also ask Carina? Prince Gustav was at a dinner with friends in Munich and she also said that she likes horses, writing, painting, and Iceland ponies (oooohhhkay.)

[URL="http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/bad-berleburg/2008/6/9/news-54255283/detail.html"]Link[/URL] and [URL="http://www.siegener-zeitung.de/nachrichten/aktuell/region/wittgenstein/detailansicht/article/95/nigel-und-das-grosse-geheimnis.html"]here[/URL]. Finally, you can view a set of photos [URL="http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/bad-berleburg/2008/6/9/news-54255283/slideshow.html?resourceId=3"]here[/URL] which you can see her giant ruby and diamond ring on her wedding finger.

she is wearing the same heartmade jacket mary owns

 

[grevinnan]

Thank you very much GlitteringTiaras


I think Carina Axelsson is in her early 40's, this woman is a mystery, I can't understand why she was wearing a tiara at Federicks last birthday party.

Carina said: "we do need a bit of time" to marry, but she says she is 39 years old and what about Children?

Why would she not wear a tiara? If Gustav wants her to wear family heirlooms she can absolutely do so. Considering what the issue with the will is doing to the timing of their own wedding I believe they are handling the current situation with much style and aplomb.

 

[Adelheid]

Why would she not wear a tiara? If Gustav wants her to wear family heirlooms she can absolutely do so. Considering what the issue with the will is doing to the timing of their own wedding I believe they are handling the current situation with much style and aplomb.

What they are doing it's not according protocol, Carina Axelsson is only Gustavs mistress , not his wife and they are not engaged.

 

[acdc1]

What they are doing it's not according protocol, Carina Axelsson is only Gustavs mistress , not his wife and they are not engaged.

I wouldn't call her his "mistress", that sounds rather harsh or "bad" to me. Personally, I think that if it were not for that stupid will, they would have been long married by now. It seems like the family loves her and thinks very highly of her, and considers her one of them. It might not be protocol, but they are dealing with the situation very well, IMO.

 

[kimebear]

There is nothing stopping her from wearing a tiara to a tiara event. If you or I was invited to that wedding and we owned a diamond tiara, or our boyfriend's family owned a tiara and was willing to lend it to us, we would be encouraged to wear it.

Also, I'm not sure if there is a language misunderstanding or not, but Carina is not Gustav's mistress as he is not married to someone else. She is his girlfriend/fiancee/companion. She could be considered the mistress of his home as she runs the household and takes special interest in the affairs of his estate.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

There are two ways to look at the term "mistress.:

First, is considered a big no-no and vulgar to some; others not so much.

Second, the term could also be referred to as being the Mistress of the House and in this case Carina is known around Bad Berleburg as the Lady of the Schloss which can also be stated as the Mistress of the Schloss.

Third, Carina is not the fiancee of Gustav. There is a long explanation as to why throughout this topic. Yes, she has a nice fat ring on her finger for the past several months, but there has been no official statement nor confirmation that the two are engaged. Also, she noted that she wanted to get married in the latest article, but she along with every other royal watcher and Gustav's family know why the couple cannot at this time.

 

[Adelheid]

There is nothing stopping her from wearing a tiara to a tiara event. If you or I was invited to that wedding and we owned a diamond tiara, or our boyfriend's family owned a tiara and was willing to lend it to us, we would be encouraged to wear it.

Also, I'm not sure if there is a language misunderstanding or not, but Carina is not Gustav's mistress as he is not married to someone else. She is his girlfriend/fiancee/companion. She could be considered the mistress of his home as she runs the household and takes special interest in the affairs of his estate.

Sorry, I was talking about Fredericks birthday party, but I mean Joachim+Maries wedding, I've ready edit it.

But it was not "a tiara event", it was a wedding, where the brides Mom and grandma, were not using tiara because they aren't royals. Prince Nikolaos of Greece and Denmarks girlfriend Tatiana, knows also about protocol and she was wearing no tiara at this wedding.

It was ridiculous that Carina wanted to appear like a royal, she will receive a title if she marries Gustav, but now she is only his mistress, not his fiancée, they are not engaged.

Right GlitteringTiaras, I was writing the same when you sent your message

 

[kimebear]

Sorry, I was talking about Fredericks birthday party, but I mean Joachim+Maries wedding, I've ready edit it.

But it was not "a tiara event", it was a wedding, where the brides Mom and grandma, were not using tiara because they aren't royals. Prince Nikolaos of Greece and Denmarks girlfriend Tatiana, knows also about protocol and she was wearing no tiara at this wedding.

It was ridiculous that Carina wanted to appear like a royal, she will receive a title if she marries Gustav, but now she is only his mistress, not his fiancée, they are not engaged.

I have to disagree with you. It was a tiara event as it was very formal. True that the brides mother and grandmother were not wearing tiaras, but perhaps it was because they do not own them, or maybe if they do (it is entirely possible that the grandmother, coming from a noble family, may very well have access to such a jewel) they simply did not want to. I will repeat again very strenuously that the wearing of a tiara is not strictly the provenance of royalty. Non-royal socialites around the world have worn tiaras forever. In the UK, all women who were presented at court were strongly encouraged to wear them. A tiara is a symbol of status, not royalty.

As far as Tatiana not wearing a tiara, I don't think it has anything to do with her knowledge of protocol. More likely, the GRF did not offer to lend her one for the occasion. The difference being that Nikolaos has not yet proposed (that we know of) as opposed to Gustav being unable to. Since Carina wore a tiara from Gustav's family, it was obviously with the family's consent. Princess Benedikte, born the daughter of the King and Queen of Denmark and sister of the current Queen of Denmark would certainly know enough about royal protocol to consent to this loan of a jewel or not. If anything, the fact that it was loaned to Carina in the first place cements her position, official or unofficial, in Gustav's life as far as his family is concerned.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

I believe the reason why many were surprised that she wore a tiara, despite being accepted by Queen Margrethe and the rest of the DRF, the official life companion of Gustav, invited to all the official family events, representing the SWB's at Schloss Berleburg's castle tours and other events around Germany, is that it has never happened before specifically with the very traditional DRF. Second, it's okay for members to question and state their opinions on the matter because, again, the situation has never happened before. Finally, I'm not so sure anymore the tiara was a SWB or the personal property of Princess Benedikte that she brought over from Denmark. As for cementing her position, that was obvious a long long time ago... tiara or not.

 

[kimebear]

The tiara Carina was wearing at the wedding has been potentially identified at the RJOTW message board as being the same one that was worn by the late Princess Margareta to Princess Alexandra's wedding in 1998. If that is true, it would make it a SWB heirloom.

Close up photo of Carina:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h191/kimebear_2006/Carina.jpg

Princess Margareta:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h191/kimebear_2006/19980606wedding06apl2sr.jpg

IMHO, Carina was not putting on airs or pretending to be something she is not by wearing the tiara. She also looked quite beautiful in it.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

So has it been confirmed? Definitely? Oh and thanks for the links.

IMHO, Carina was not putting on airs or pretending to be something she is not by wearing the tiara. She also looked quite beautiful in it.

No one has implied or stated any such thing, Kimebear. If anything, a majority of us support their relationship and are quite fond of Carina.

 

[kimebear]

Well, actually I was responding to this comment:

It was ridiculous that Carina wanted to appear like a royal

Also, the tiara has been potentially identified as I said. It seems to be similar enough in design. No one from the House of SWB has confirmed it though.

 

[Adelheid]

I have to disagree with you. It was a tiara event as it was very formal. True that the brides mother and grandmother were not wearing tiaras, but perhaps it was because they do not own them, or maybe if they do (it is entirely possible that the grandmother, coming from a noble family, may very well have access to such a jewel) they simply did not want to. I will repeat again very strenuously that the wearing of a tiara is not strictly the provenance of royalty. Non-royal socialites around the world have worn tiaras forever. In the UK, all women who were presented at court were strongly encouraged to wear them. A tiara is a symbol of status, not royalty.

As far as Tatiana not wearing a tiara, I don't think it has anything to do with her knowledge of protocol. More likely, the GRF did not offer to lend her one for the occasion. The difference being that Nikolaos has not yet proposed (that we know of) as opposed to Gustav being unable to. Since Carina wore a tiara from Gustav's family, it was obviously with the family's consent. Princess Benedikte, born the daughter of the King and Queen of Denmark and sister of the current Queen of Denmark would certainly know enough about royal protocol to consent to this loan of a jewel or not. If anything, the fact that it was loaned to Carina in the first place cements her position, official or unofficial, in Gustav's life as far as his family is concerned.

Of course kimebear is your right to disagree with me and who else you mind, but where do you acquire your knowledges? Because y read "perhaps" and "I don't think" in your message and those sentences are subjetive but not objetiv.

I write about protocol with insider knowledges, Lady in UK is a nobility title, that's the reason why they use tiaras.

Carina Axelsson was not invited to the recently christening of Alexias daughter, because in Spain, they follow the protocol. (Alexia is the 1st grade cousin of Gustav).

Carinas mistress condition is only tolerate by Gustavs close danish relatives.