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  #321  
Old 07-08-2008, 08:27 AM
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Am back after a short break and see that noone has mentioned the upcoming change in German family law which will become valid at the beginning of next year.

This law revises a law that became valid in 1875 which forced the churches to only marry people religiously when they had married by the state's lwa before. From 1.1.2009 church marriages and state marriages are two seperate bodies of law again like it was in 1875 and before.

How does that influence Gustaf and Carina?

A will with a provision about the marriage of an heir most likely will only affect a marriage by public law. Houselaws which are older than 1875 most probably are build around religious marriages, as public marriages did not really exist before that date. So when in 2009 these two types of marriage are seperated as bodies of law, Gustaf could marry Carina in church (probably valid according to his houselaws when it comes to produce legitimate heirs) while not marry her in a public office. It's a discussion going on if a church wedding consists of an "important reason" for a name change according to general law but as far as I could find out most experts say that it is.

So if Gustav married Carina in church, she could even get a name change to Princess of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg and bear "legitimate" children with a claim to both the name and the inheritance of their father while the will is not affected by it.

I personally like that idea for Gustaf and Carina's sake, though I wished the will's provision about an "Aryan" marriage would be declared void. But who knows when and if this will happen!
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  #322  
Old 07-13-2008, 12:04 AM
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This Billed Bladet article, entitled "Prins Gustavs Carina åbner galleri" ("Prince Gustav's Carina opens gallery"), talks about Carina opening/planning to open a new gallery at the Bad Berleburg Castle
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  #323  
Old 07-13-2008, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post


By the way....who did we decide was the "next heir" of the Berleburg? Given that Alexandra's children do not represent the next heir, who will inherit after Gustav, should he and Carina fail to, er, reproduce?
From what I can tell, the next heir that meets the requirement for the will would be, PrinceBernhart, Furstzu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein. He is married toKatherina Countess von Podewils-Durniz and they have a son, HP Wenzel born in 1997. After that it would be prince Otto Ludwig of Sayn Wittgentein Berleberg, married to a Barroness von Cramm, the parents of Princess Lilly who was married to The Prince of Schuamberg-Lippe. However their eldest son is not married to a noble woman and so their youngest son, Prince Maximillian, wold be the next heir
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  #324  
Old 07-14-2008, 11:16 AM
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Correct me if I am wrong, but whoever qualifies for the current will, will become head of the house and make his heir not go through the same qualifications. I thought that the Aryan, Noble and Protestant was for Gustav (or if he doesn't inherit) the next in line heir.

Did I say this correctly?
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  #325  
Old 07-14-2008, 05:07 PM
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Yep you would be right but I was looking at who was suitable according to the will as it stands, in case one of the older men dies before the whole issue was settled.
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  #326  
Old 07-14-2008, 11:19 PM
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Prince Gustav can't even marry his beloved because of a law.Which I find sad
and he is of a non reigning house hopefully someday in this lifetime that he will be able to marry and have children with the woman he loves.
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  #327  
Old 07-15-2008, 12:14 AM
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He CAN marry her if he's willing to give up his present status. I think that they are waiting for the court to make a decision so that they will be able to plan their future. Is there any reason that if they don't marry but have children that their kids would not be able to inherit their father's estate?
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  #328  
Old 07-15-2008, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reen View Post
He CAN marry her if he's willing to give up his present status. I think that they are waiting for the court to make a decision so that they will be able to plan their future. Is there any reason that if they don't marry but have children that their kids would not be able to inherit their father's estate?
I meant to say he can't keep his status if he marries her because of a law.
Gustav and Carina should be able to mary for love instead of law but they
want to see how things pin out in court I agree with that statement made
in your previous post.
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  #329  
Old 07-15-2008, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Star View Post
I meant to say he can't keep his status if he marries her because of a law.
Gustav and Carina should be able to mary for love instead of law but they
want to see how things pin out in court I agree with that statement made
in your previous post.
The law does not get involved with who he can marry. It is the stipulation in his grandfather's will that states the requirements of his bride.
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  #330  
Old 07-15-2008, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
The law does not get involved with who he can marry. It is the stipulation in his grandfather's will that states the requirements of his bride.
It seems we have misunderstanding from my two previous post on this pacific thread.

He will lose his noble status and title along with the headship of the house
and the estate for marrying a woman who does not have the requirements
stated in late grandfather's will.
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  #331  
Old 07-15-2008, 09:39 PM
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I was not aware that he would lose his noble title and status; I thought just the headship of the house and the estate by not meeting his grandfather's requirements. Are you sure?
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  #332  
Old 07-16-2008, 03:09 PM
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To clear one argument and confusion up once and for all: Carina's age. She's 40 years old. Born on August 5, 1968 according to Netty @ RP who snooped through my state's, California, birth as well as marriage records recently.

We already know (mentioned months ago in this topic) that she has a brother and sister as well as relatives still living in Sweden.
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  #333  
Old 07-16-2008, 03:36 PM
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Here's some info. from Marlene's blog about who's next in line to the title after Gustav:Royal Musings: A Princess in all but name

Quote:
So who is the next in line? Good question. Prince Richard has a younger brother, Prince Robin, who lives in France with his second wife. According to Gustav Albrecht's will, Robin cannot inherit because his marriages were unequal. This brings us to Gustav Albrecht's younger brother, Prince Christian Heinrich, 5th Prince of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein, who married equally.
If Gustav cannot marry Carina and produce an heir to Berleburg, will the estate and headship of the family eventually pass to Bernhart, 6th Prince of of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein, who lives in Bad Berleburg, with his wife, the former Countess Katharina von Podewils-Dürnwitz, and ten-year-old son, Hereditary Prince Wenzel.
Bad Berleburg is the name of the German town where Schloss Berleburg is located.
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  #334  
Old 07-16-2008, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Star View Post
It seems we have misunderstanding from my two previous post on this pacific thread.

He will lose his noble status and title along with the headship of the house
and the estate for marrying a woman who does not have the requirements
stated in late grandfather's will.
No misunderstanding. The law has nothing to do with the issue at hand. He is fighting the validity of the will - not the statute.
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  #335  
Old 07-30-2008, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
No misunderstanding. The law has nothing to do with the issue at hand. He is fighting the validity of the will - not the statute.
The law must be still valid if the prince is going to court to fight to change it.If he marries the woman he loves he could possibly lose everything.
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  #336  
Old 08-01-2008, 12:50 PM
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The will is valid at this time, which is why the family is trying to overturn it. Again, the law does not enter into it; it is the private will, a private document, that governs the Prince and his financial well-being.

This is not a tragic choice of love thwarted; it's mercenary decision. There is no law forbidding their marriage. None. The Prince wants to have his bride and his inheritance; he wants money AND love. The terms of the will set up by his grandfather say that he cannot, not with this particular bride.
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  #337  
Old 08-01-2008, 01:06 PM
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That is what I meant to say the will is still valid he does want to keep what rightfully belongs to him and marry the woman he loves this is the statement that I have been trying to get across all of this time.
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  #338  
Old 08-02-2008, 06:18 PM
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Carina's birthday is coming up on August 5th. I wonder if they will have a big party for her, since it will be her 40th.
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  #339  
Old 08-02-2008, 06:47 PM
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I'm sure there will be a party; however, whether it will be reported remains to be seen and doubtful that it will be.


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  #340  
Old 08-02-2008, 07:29 PM
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So she´s older than Gustav who becomes 40 in January? How do you know that she becomes already 40?
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