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  #201  
Old 04-06-2008, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Guido View Post
Please don't twist my words! Why do you bring up another thread here?
Guido, no one has twisted your words. I fully understand the context and underlying tone of what you are saying. Unfortunately, you have made it quite clear that you honestly believe that a majority of women, specifically ex-Models, are golddiggers. In Carina's case, you are obviously speculating. There is absolutely no solid evidence to support your claims. If you can provide links to legitimate sources, please do so.


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Don't you find odd that celebrity women always marry a wealthy, influential and noble men.
That's because they run in the same social circle. Many nobles are involved in the art, banking, and fashion world. Thus are invited to many of the shows, personally know the designers, and eventually get to personally know those behind the scenes, including models, on an intimate level. It makes sense. Furthermore, it should be made known that the Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg's are not as wealthy as you seem to believe Guido. Prince Richard gave an interview some time ago, in which he addressed his financial situation. The link to the German article is noted in several posts above.



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I know that many girls love the sugared pink fairytales but unfortunately life is not a fairytale.
Wow! You just gave yourself away big time.
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  #202  
Old 04-06-2008, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MissSaga View Post

Anyways, any news on when the wedding could be ? I think we can assume that it won't be this summer. Summer '09 perhaps ?
As the will as yet to be overturned, I can only speculate they won't be getting married any time soon. They haven't announced an engagement yet, either. So it's just wait and see for them.
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  #203  
Old 04-07-2008, 08:22 AM
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I'm genuinely baffled

I'm genuinely baffled as to the dichotomy of opinion of Carina expressed here.

I see many posters saying how sweet she is, how good she is, and I wonder - what's the evidence for that?

I see other posters decrying her, and I think - what's the evidence for that?

My own opinion is this: it's easy to love a man who is young, wealthy, and handsome. If he can never marry you because of a legally enforceable will, but you can enjoy the benefits of his wealth and attention (including your children being able to inherit,) then why not play the game for all its worth? What's the downside? None.

Time is not on their side in the fertility game, to be sure; one presumes that the couple is waiting for the courts to rule definitively against overturning the will before having a child out of wedlock, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem if the courts rule in the next two years. If it goes beyond that, then they will have gambled a great deal; however, as we have seen in other Royal/Imperial families, a little bit of medical assistance goes a long way in the reproduction arena.

I'm not saying she doesn't have some talents somewhere.

This person, however, is essentially a cypher: expert at projecting a certain aura and appearance (as she is through her modeling experience) then what evidence is there of her "sweetness" and "goodness?" Being the author of books didn't make Princess Michael of Kent particularly likeable, if I recall correctly.

Bluntly, a bare skimming of the Gotha can deliver a large number of suitable candidates for this Prince, as they could have for Haakon or Felipe.

If he chooses to make this woman his life partner, then there may be a price to be paid for that. Clearly, he doesn't think he should have to pay any price at all. Few things are that simple.
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  #204  
Old 04-07-2008, 12:58 PM
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Evidence that I found for this claim which led me to believe that she is a nice girl: Firsthand, accounts from casual royal journalists who have covered small weddings in Germany and have encountered Carina and Gustav. I trust their judgement. Other sources include local German papers that have reported on her activities in Bad Berleburg. Do you honestly believe a golddigger would spend her time helping the children of Bad Berleburg, help to restore the schloss, and setting up a Arts and Literature Award just for the heck of it? No, I don't believe so. Golddiggers wouldn't waste their time on anyone else except themselves and the man they are trying to entrap. Moreover, once they found out their victim was not as wealthy as they assumed they leave them in a heartbeat. Marriage is the sole goal of a golddigger. They do not wait around for two, three, four years, and so on to have a giant ring placed on their fingers. They want to be married pronto. If it takes their significant other more than a year, they move on to their next target.

In regards to Gustav's family, I believe Princess Benedikte would have never accepted Carina if she honestly believed she was out for Gustav's money (rather lack of it.) Instead, Princess Benedikte has welcomed her with open arms and has publicly stated l"... we like her..." The Princess has also invited her to several official events, but I already noted that several posts above. Overall, she is the key person whose judgement has more "weight."

Now let me say it is quite easy for me to spot a golddigger a mile away. I don't know where you live, but here in L.A., they are everywhere. The fact that Carina was a model and knows how to "act" for the camera may be true, but one can see through those who are being "fake" ... or at least I can.

So there you go...

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  #205  
Old 04-07-2008, 01:02 PM
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New York, actually

Since you seem to have delivered that missive to me (although at no point did I refer to Carina as a "golddigger,") I am from New York.

Where, of course, there are simply no golddiggers at all. I would find myself at a loss entirely to determine the attributes of such a person, since none could ever be found in Manhattan or the outer boroughs...or Long Island...or Connecticut...or Westchester County...
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  #206  
Old 04-07-2008, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Since you seem to have delivered that missive to me (although at no point did I refer to Carina as a "golddigger,") I am from New York.
No, it was general and I was answering your question which seemed to be directed towards all members. If I wanted to be specific I would have out your name down.


Now back on topic:

Have you had a chance to read about Carina and Gustav prior to this recent "golddigger discussion?" Or is this your first time hearing and reading detailed discussions regarding the Will, the family, official and non official events, Carina, Gustav, Bad Berleburg, and so forth?

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  #207  
Old 04-07-2008, 11:06 PM
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Carina and Mary

I don't know if this has been addressed before but it appears to me that Mary and Carina being close is a no-brainer. They both share English as their first language and are of a similar age. Perhaps they are of a similar background as well. I realize that The U.S. and Australia are two different countries but usually the people of those countries can forge an easy friendship. This could be the reason that Carina and Mary are often seen together. I would imagine that the women are close and their husbands are cousins and similar in age. Actually, I think it would be odd if they weren't friendly and didn't socialize.
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  #208  
Old 04-08-2008, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras View Post
Um, that's a tad harsh, don't you think, Guido? Although I don't agree with you, could you please tell us why and how you came to this conclusion that she is a "golddigger"? What evidence do you have to support your claim? Did you date her or something? It is a fact, afterall, that she was finanicially stable prior to meeting Gustav as well as having a successful career not only as a model, but more importantly as an illustrator and an author of two books plus one more coming out soon.
How is it a fact that she was financially stable before meeting Gustav? She had a short and failed modeling career because of her lack of height, her excess of poundage, big nose and bad teeth (most models make rather little money unless they become internationally known supermodels - not the case with Carina). She wrote a couple of little books but there is no money in children's literature unless you are a prolific writer with a worldwide audience (again, not the case with Carina) and this fact can be proven with a call to any publishing house. Books for small children are very inexpensive and it would take phenomenal sales to make significant money. Even if she earned a million euro that's not to say that she isn't up to her neck in credit card debit or loans. It can happen.

I don't think Carina is a golddigger at all but find no evidence that it is a fact that she was stable in terms of finances.
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  #209  
Old 04-08-2008, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
How is it a fact that she was financially stable before meeting Gustav
She worked for John Galliano whilst going to Ecole Boulle school. Once she graduated she was a successful illustrator in Paris. Thus she was able to take care of herself financially.



Quote:
She had a short and failed modeling career because of her lack of height, her excess of poundage, big nose and bad teeth (most models make rather little money unless they become internationally known supermodels - not the case with Carina
And how do you know this? I would love to read your legit sources confirming your "...short and failed modeling career because of her lack of height, her excess of poundage, big nose and bad teeth..." statement. Please do so.
Furthermore, I guess appearing in French Vogue and Marie Claire, to name a few, is a utter failure for models.

Quote:
She wrote a couple of little books but there is no money in children's literature unless you are a prolific writer with a worldwide audience (again, not the case with Carina) and this fact can be proven with a call to any publishing house. Books for small children are very inexpensive and it would take phenomenal sales to make significant money.
Actually, her books were and still are quite popular; plus she was still an illustrator when the first Nigel book came out. Money. Financially stable. Hence not broke, poor and living in the gutter.


Quote:
Even if she earned a million euro that's not to say that she isn't up to her neck in credit card debit or loans. It can happen.

I don't think Carina is a golddigger at all but find no evidence that it is a fact that she was stable in terms of finances.
Well, if she was living in Paris since 1995, worked as a model then decided to go back to school, worked for Galliano, then finally worked as a successful illustrator I believe she was financially stable hence Carina was able to support herself. You must be thinking in terms of being a millionaire, but I'm not. Obviously, she was able to take care of herself thus it is easy to deduce that she was far from being poor and financially unstable.
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  #210  
Old 04-08-2008, 05:40 PM
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Fashion industry pays peanuts. People who work in the fashion industry make peanuts. Working for a major designer does not mean that she earned any money at all. There is no proof other than the tabloid magazine that she worked for Galliano and, if she did, what kind of work did she do. Get coffee? Based on her wardrobe choices, she knows even less than Mary about fashion and style so I doubt she assisted in the design process.

The proof that she is a failed model is that she failed to get more than a couple of jobs in a period of a few years. Successful models careers don't stall at such a young age. Anyone - literally anyone - can be in Marie Claire or French Vogue once. Most of the people I know in NYC have been in the glossy pages on more than one occassion. It doesn't make them a model at all let alone a successful one. It is hard to dispute that she is short, chubby, and has a big nose and bad teeth with a huge gap. The older she gets the homelier she gets. The agencies saw this coming and dumped her for being a bad bet hence her career stalled. It happens to failed models all the time.

Do you have the updated sales figures for Nigel? How could you possibly know that is still selling well around the world? Even so that doesn't mean that she got any money for it besides an advance and advances (and royalties) in children's literature are minute and royalties payment schedules are not built into every contract.

You equate supporting herself and not living in a gutter with being financially stable. The two have little to do with each other. People support themselves every day but most are only one paycheck away from homelessness. Financially stable is a different level altogether. That would indicates savings, investments and assets. Living in Paris but doing the menial work that Carina did indicates that she supported herself but in a hand-to-mouth manner.
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  #211  
Old 04-08-2008, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraMCS View Post
Fashion industry pays peanuts. People who work in the fashion industry make peanuts. Working for a major designer does not mean that she earned any money at all. There is no proof other than the tabloid magazine that she worked for Galliano and, if she did, what kind of work did she do. Get coffee? Based on her wardrobe choices, she knows even less than Mary about fashion and style so I doubt she assisted in the design process.

The proof that she is a failed model is that she failed to get more than a couple of jobs in a period of a few years. Successful models careers don't stall at such a young age. It doesn't make them a model at all let alone a successful one. It is hard to dispute that she is short, chubby, and has a big nose and bad teeth with a huge gap. The older she gets the homelier she gets. The agencies saw this coming and dumped her for being a bad bet hence her career stalled. It happens to failed models all the time.

Do you have the updated sales figures for Nigel? How could you possibly know that is still selling well around the world? Even so that doesn't mean that she got any money for it besides an advance and advances (and royalties) in children's literature are minute and royalties payment schedules are not built into every contract.

You equate supporting herself and not living in a gutter with being financially stable. The two have little to do with each other. People support themselves every day but most are only one paycheck away from homelessness. Financially stable is a different level altogether. That would indicates savings, investments and assets. Living in Paris but doing the menial work that Carina did indicates that she supported herself but in a hand-to-mouth manner.
I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. Not anyone can be in Vogue. Also not every successful model is a high fashion supermodel. There are lots of successful commercial models who make very good money but they don't do the glamorous modeling that we're all familiar with. I think it's a bit drastic to call her a failed model when modeling could never be considered a long-term career in the first place.

You are correct that most fashion jobs don't pay well because the perks of the job (clothes, cache of working in fashion, networking potential, etc) are more than payment. Also, a lot of girls with financial security are able to take these jobs because they don't worry about the lack of sustainable income. I definitely wouldn't say Carina worked a menial job, even if she was just an assistant. My goodness, she had to start somewhere right? I doubt they would have her running the company from the start.
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  #212  
Old 04-08-2008, 07:54 PM
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I have to agree with GT on this. As for former model in Europe and the US, as well as someone who worked in fashion, you can make good money w/o being famous. Or in fashion mags. As far as a career in fashion, you can earn a decent living and save and invest. It depends on what you do.

I am amazed that people are constantly refering to others as golddiggers because they were not born with a silver spoon in their mouth or own their own castle. It is a sad statement on society and women when we treat each other with such venom.
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  #213  
Old 04-10-2008, 12:10 AM
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Where's all this aggression coming from and for what purpose! We have rules in place against this type of behaviour:

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Insulting comments about other posters and royals are not permitted. Criticism is acceptable; insults and flames are not. We expect our members to treat each other with respect.
Now let's move on to another topic.

Thanks,

Mandy
  #214  
Old 04-15-2008, 08:54 AM
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What are their options, then?

I see their options as this:

Scenario 1 - Grandpop's will is overturned.
Outcome A - Gustav & Carina marry & live happily in the castle with the full inheritance, leading to a possible Outcome B:
Outcome B - The next heirs after Gustav make a decision whether or not to appeal.
Scenario 2 - Grandpop's will is upheld.
Outcome A - Gustav & Carina marry & live happily in a nice semi-detached, forgoing the castle/titles/styles/jewels/lands/income & becoming merely Mr. & Mrs. Berleburg or some such derivative;
Outcome B - Gustav & Carina become "life partners," begat children, Gustav adopts said children to assure their inheritance, the couple/family retaining the castle/titles/styles/jewels/lands/income but never marrying.
From what I was reading earlier upthread and without access to the exact will itself, it appears on the surface that Scenario 2 has the better edge in the outcome.

They've been dating, what, 3 years? Her first official appearance as his girlfriend I believe was at the Hesse wedding.

There are third and fourth scenarios:

Scenario 3: Grandpop's will is overturned but Carina & Gustav have broken off their relationship, the stress of which has caused them to reconsider their commitment. In this Scenario, Gustav has the benefit of now being able to choose any bride he wishes, which literally opens up the world to him.

Scenario 4: Grandpop's will is upheld, Carina & Gustav decide to be life partners without marriage, but never have children for whatever reason. In which case, the entire kit and kaboodle goes to the next heir anyway, much angst for no gain.

I'm certainly glad I had no such weighty considerations in my personal life. But then again, they both have the absolute freedom to walk away from the castle/titles/styles/jewels/lands/income at any time now and live full and happy and productive lives.

It's wanting to have both - to have it all - that has placed them in this box. So in many ways, as much as they might feel that they are prisoners of Grandpop's will, they are prisoners only to their own needs and wants.

Can anyone think of any other Scenarios to add?
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  #215  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:19 PM
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No, I believe you covered just about everything under the sun, NAP.

In all likelihood scenario 4 is it and the heir to Bad Berleburg goes to Alexandra's son. In the end, the situation still does not look good.
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  #216  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras View Post
No, I believe you covered just about everything under the sun, NAP.

In all likelihood scenario 4 is it and the heir to Bad Berleburg goes to Alexandra's son. In the end, the situation still does not look good.
It will go to the next male heir of the Berleburg Family. Not to Alexandra's descendants.
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  #217  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:32 PM
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Whoops, sorry. Thanks for the correction, Stefan. So who is it again?
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  #218  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras View Post
Whoops, sorry. Thanks for the correction, Stefan. So who is it again?
It depends if the marriage-rule also counts for them. If not hten to Prince Richard's brother Robin and his son Sebastian. if yes then probably to more distant relatives.
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  #219  
Old 04-15-2008, 04:39 PM
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Interesting, very interesting especially when it comes to Prince Robin. So what are your thoughts regarding NAP's scenarios? What do you think the outcome will be ten years from now?
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  #220  
Old 04-30-2008, 01:58 AM
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Anyway...Moving on...

In the latest issue of Svensk Dam Tidning there is a snippet about Carina at the bottom of this article. In the article, Princess Benedikte remarked "...how lucky we are to have her in Berleburg and that she is so interested in Bad Berleburg..." I'm paraphrasing here so please don't cut my head off.
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