General News about Joachim, Marie and Family 2: August 2009 - January 2011

[stellam]

Thanks Muhler. Will be interesting to see what is written in the article. Hopefully one of the other Danish Board members will be able to share some info with us.

 

[dazzling]

Has this article emerged because Frederik and his family are not spending Christmas at Joachims place with the rest of the family?

Joachim & Frederik may have had their problems but they seem to be close or at least happy in each other company at varioues events they attened. Marie & Mary seem to also get along with each other.

 

[nwinther]

I'll give it a go (grabbed it from Prins Joachim: Mit og Kronprinsens forhold er rigtig godt | Starlounge 31-10-2010).

Both have previously told how they drifted apart. But now, says Prince Joachim, 41, the relationship between him and Crown Prince Frederik, 42, is "really good".

- Mine and the Crown Princes' relatioship is really good. We are good brothers to each other. The magazines who want to sell covers on made-up stories can write whatever they want. It does not affect me or the Crown Prince. What's been written now and again, is not the facts. It is that simple. None of us seems to be shaken by what is being written, says Prince Joachim to BT

Lately there's been some focus on the distance between the two brothers, when Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary told the family about her twin pregnancy - just over two months after the pregnancy was confirmed.

- Some messages you just don't give over the phone, said Prince Joachim to Ekstra Bladet, and conceded in that manner that he had not seen his brother in months.

According Trine Villemann, who has written two books on the monarchy, the two brothers, after all, still love each other.

- Joachim is royal to fingertips and know to keep family dramas within the palace walls and away from the public (the press.) He would NEVER say that he and Fred is no longer as close as they once were. NEVER! Explains Villemann in an interview with MSN Starlounge.

- It is natural that a sibling relationship changes when there are spouses, but during the marriage to Alexandra - at least the first few years - Frederik and Joachim were still very closely linked.
Let us not forget that Joachim in their childhood protected his sensitive older brother by taking the blame for some of Frederick's accident to save him from papas beating. He has always been totally loyal to Frederik. When the boys got bodyguards, he told them. "It's Frederik you must look after, for he shall be king." And then he's "rewarded" with being told the fantastic news of the twin pregnancies at the same time as the rest of the population?

Prince Joachim's divorce from Countess Alexandra coincided with Frederik and Mary's wedding and it was, according to Joachim one of the reasons that he did not include his older brother in his problems.

- And maybe my brother felt a little snubbed because I did not share it with him. But maybe it was also my way of acting, when you stand in an unknown situation and don't want to show signs of weakness. I would not bother him with it when he was in his happiest place and without the opportunity to provide experience, " says Joachim in Gitte Redder and Karin Palshøjs book "Frederik - Crown Prince of Denmark."

- I think I disappointed him a lot by not using him more, he acknowledges in the book.

According Trine Villemann Crown Princess Mary has come between Prince Joachim and Crown Prince Frederik.

- Mary has come between the brothers, it's as simple as that. She is a girl from the province - from the other side of the world, but Hobart's far from a metropolis! - And there is NOTHING wrong with that, but when you are not born as royalty and raised with all the pomp, circumstance and intrigue that goes along with that, it can be difficult when Joachim with his photographic momory and VERY royal style, makes his center of knowledge available for less well-read creatures, says Trine Villemann.

- Mary pulls Frederik away Joachim, and I feel sorry for Frederik, because I think he misses his little brother. Joachim is the one who has been closest to Frederik for most of his life, and it's a gap which Mary and the kids can not fill.

Erik Brandt, who is one of Prince Henry's closest friends, told BT that Prince Joachim and Crown Prince "is getting along, now."

- I don't comment on the Royal house out of sheer principle. But I must say that Fred has always been my darling, while Joachim has become very soft, sympathetic and humane, after he has been married to the lovely girl who Marie is," said Eric Brandt.

- I think he and Fred are feeling better and better together, but they've always had a good time together.

Sorry for any misunderstandings in spelling and translation. I know it's not the BT article, but it touches on the same subject.

 

[Emmily]

Isn't this the author that wrote the book on the DRF not long ago? How do those of you who are in Denmark feel about her and can you really take her word in the above article? She seems very biased against the DRF. JMHO

 

[Muhler]

Isn't this the author that wrote the book on the DRF not long ago? How do those of you who are in Denmark feel about her and can you really take her word in the above article? She seems very biased against the DRF. JMHO

Her books were torn apart by reviewers.

Her arguments and claims cannot hold when looked at more closely.

She has a tendency to very much rely on unnamed sources, which cannot be verified.

I personally do not consider Trine Villemann credible.

But let's have a closer look at what she said in Nwinter's excellent translation. My notes are based on the numbers in bold:

---------------
According Trine Villemann, who has written two books on the monarchy, the two brothers, after all, still love each other.

- Joachim is royal to fingertips and know to keep family dramas within the palace walls and away from the public (the press.) He would NEVER say that he and Fred is no longer as close as they once were. NEVER! Explains Villemann in an interview with MSN Starlounge. (1)

- It is natural that a sibling relationship changes when there are spouses, but during the marriage to Alexandra - at least the first few years - Frederik and Joachim were still very closely linked.
Let us not forget that Joachim in their childhood protected his sensitive older brother by taking the blame for some of Frederick's accident to save him from papas beating. (2) He has always been totally loyal to Frederik. When the boys got bodyguards, he told them. "It's Frederik you must look after, for he shall be king." (3) And then he's "rewarded" with being told the fantastic news of the twin pregnancies at the same time as the rest of the population? (4)

Prince Joachim's divorce from Countess Alexandra coincided with Frederik and Mary's wedding and it was, according to Joachim one of the reasons that he did not include his older brother in his problems. (5)

- And maybe my brother felt a little snubbed because I did not share it with him. But maybe it was also my way of acting, when you stand in an unknown situation and don't want to show signs of weakness. I would not bother him with it when he was in his happiest place and without the opportunity to provide experience, " says Joachim in Gitte Redder and Karin Palshøjs book "Frederik - Crown Prince of Denmark." (6)

- I think I disappointed him a lot by not using him more, he acknowledges in the book.

According Trine Villemann Crown Princess Mary has come between Prince Joachim and Crown Prince Frederik.

- Mary has come between the brothers, it's as simple as that. She is a girl from the province - from the other side of the world, but Hobart's far from a metropolis! (7) - And there is NOTHING wrong with that, but when you are not born as royalty and raised with all the pomp, circumstance and intrigue (8) that goes along with that, it can be difficult when Joachim with his photographic momory and VERY royal style, makes his center of knowledge available for less well-read creatures, says Trine Villemann.

- Mary pulls Frederik away Joachim, and I feel sorry for Frederik, because I think he misses his little brother. Joachim is the one who has been closest to Frederik for most of his life, and it's a gap which Mary and the kids can not fill. (9)

-----

(1) That is very much common knowledge. Joachim does not hang the laundry out to dry in public.

(2) It's the first time I've personally hear about Joachim taking the blame for Frederik. The comment by TV also indicates that Henrik more or less caned his children. There is no evidence to suggest that. He brought them up in a stern way and and he is no against spanking should it be necessary, but there is no evidence that he actually did beat Frederik and Joachim.

(3) They were attached PET officers in the mid 70's or so, just as QMII herself. I find it very hard to believe that a boy aged between 8-12 would say something like that! Especially using that choice of words. Correction around 9-10 years old, as Frederik was told that he would become king at the age of ten. He was incidentally a bit envious of Joachim, who was to inherit a manor, while he (Frederik) was to inherit a country. What was he supposed to do with a country? (Quoting Frederik from memory, but verifiable).

(4) The media were full of rumours at that time, so M&F may have planned to break the news to the family at Gråsten, then go public a little later on. That was no longer public. It's pure speculation and so is TV's claim.

(5) Correct, he stated that in the portrait book of Frederik.

(6) This is a summary of what Joachim said in the book and not a direct quote. (I've translated that part myself).

(7) Mary grew up in Hobart, that would hardly make her provincial in itself, would it? She spend several years in Sydney, unless of course Sydney is a pretty provincial town.

(8) Intrique? What intrique? Joachim is known not to be snobbish, despite his otherwise "aristocratic" demeanour.

(9) A dramatic claim! Even if it was true, surely Frederik is able to think for himself? Is Mary physically preventing him from seeing Joachim? Hardly.
Frederik is married to Mary, he would be a sorry husband and father if he did not put his wife and children first, in my opinion.

 

[H.M. Margrethe]

Isn't this the author that wrote the book on the DRF not long ago? How do those of you who are in Denmark feel about her and can you really take her word in the above article? She seems very biased against the DRF. JMHO

Yes it´s the same ridicilus author §!"#¤%&/

 

[windsorgirl]

I think it is unfair to say that Mary has torn the brothers apart. In regular families, when siblings marry and start families, their focus and priorities naturally shift. It does not mean that they love their siblings any less. I choose to believe that it is the same case here, especially since they live in different parts of the country. No need to throw blame around IMO. (Though perhaps happy family stories do not generate $$ for their authors.)

 

[nwinther]

(2) It's the first time I've personally hear about Joachim taking the blame for Frederik. The comment by TV also indicates that Henrik more or less caned his children. There is no evidence to suggest that. He brought them up in a stern way and and he is no against spanking should it be necessary, but there is no evidence that he actually did beat Frederik and Joachim.

This may be my fault. The danish wording was "klø" - which means physical punishment of some sort - sometimes in the extreme. I chose beating.

(8) Intrique? What intrique? Joachim is known not to be snobbish, despite his otherwise "aristocratic" demeanour.

Again - this is my chosen translation. In danish she says "sang- og julelege", litterally meaning "song- and christmas games". Had she said "spil" (game) instead of leg (play) I would better understand it in danish - and translate it. And adding sang- and jule- completely screws up any meaning IMO. I took it to mean something along the lines of court-intrigue (and pomp and circumstance).

That said & done - Muhler makes some good points. I think TV is drawing on her established "sources" i.e. out-of-the-blue fantasies and make-belive fitting her own agenda. Mary is supposed to be this cold-hearted bitch who'd step over her dead mother to cause pain and hardship for most anyone, only keeping up the most superficial appearance. Driving a wedge between brothers would apparantly be her mission in life.

 

[Muhler]

Thank you, nwinther I'm glad we are in agreement in regards to TV.

And I did check the original text. I would have translated it in the same way.
Klø = beating, caning, thrashing. Had it been "lussing" or "endefuld" the meaing would have been milder, and probably more in line with what Prince Henrik believe in himself. I.e. that it may be necessary from time to time to smack a child on the cheek (lussing) or in the behind (endefuld).

And as for intrique, that's also how I interpreted TV's meaning with her expression.
As usual she "spiced" her remarks. - Which would be fine if she would just back it up with something verifiable. But no....

This may be my fault. The danish wording was "klø" - which means physical punishment of some sort - sometimes in the extreme. I chose beating.



Again - this is my chosen translation. In danish she says "sang- og julelege", litterally meaning "song- and christmas games". Had she said "spil" (game) instead of leg (play) I would better understand it in danish - and translate it. And adding sang- and jule- completely screws up any meaning IMO. I took it to mean something along the lines of court-intrigue (and pomp and circumstance).

That said & done - Muhler makes some good points. I think TV is drawing on her established "sources" i.e. out-of-the-blue fantasies and make-belive fitting her own agenda. Mary is supposed to be this cold-hearted bitch who'd step over her dead mother to cause pain and hardship for most anyone, only keeping up the most superficial appearance. Driving a wedge between brothers would apparantly be her mission in life.

 

[Muhler]

Summary of article in Billed Bladet #44, 2010.
Vi laver vores egne traditioner - We will be making our own traditions.
Written by Ken Richter.

Who cornered Joachim during a hunt (for red deer) at Klosterhede in central Jutland. Here Joachim said that the plans for celebrating Christmas weren't completed yet.
"We have to find our own way to celebrate Christmas and I think it will be a mix of French and danish traditions".

However, Ken Richter believe that one typical Danish tradition may remain: Roast Pork. A dish which Our Marie has claimed to have surrendered to. (*)

Queen Margrethe has previously stated that the traditions around Christmas are fixed, they cannot be changed. - But she is not the host this time.

Joachim would not rule out that members of la Marie's family would also be present at Christmas.
"It's still too early to say whether the entire family will gather at Schackenborg".

- It should delight the locals in Møgeltønder. This year the Royal Lifeguard may be standing guard outside Schackenborg. That should make a neat postcard or two. And as Queen Margrethe is an eager churchgoer, we can expect to see her in Møgeltønder Church at least a couple of times and perhaps also in a church in the nearby town of Tønder. Joachim and Henrik are less eager when it comes to going to church. Not sure about Princess Marie though.

(*) An interesting remark by Ken Richter as the DRF usually does not have roast pork for Christmas, like a very large segment of the Danish population. Including my own family. Roast Pork: http://www.peter-hansen.org/reallife/food/flaeskesteg/
It's absolutely delicious! And no, it isn't fattening. - Until tomorrow...

 

[Kataryn]

This is my first answer on the Royal forums but I've been a reader for a long time. So I know how much Muhler and other Danish members have done for all readers interested in the Danish Royal family. Thank you very much for that. I really like the way the way the Danish Royal family shows themselves to the public and I believe they are nice people who like the other members of their family. My favorite is princess Marie with her sunny and sweet personality. But I think you might be wrong, Muhler, when you think that she acquired her taste of roast pork in Denmark. I, too, believe that the Danish version of roast pork is one of the best because of that wonderful crackling crust and the delightful combination of sweet and sour side dishes, but this is just a variation of the pork roast which is typical for the alpine regions between Switzerland, Austria, Germany and even Italy (South Tyrolia, Trentino, Lombardia and Veneto). So Marie must have had roast pork before when going to ski for roast pork dishes are a traditional staple at alpine huts and mountain restaurants. And I believe Marie is the person to delight in trying authentic and local dishes.

 

[Muhler]

Congratulations on your first post, Kataryn

Thank you for your kind and encouraging words.
You are probably right in regards to roast pork, in that case the dish may have reminded the fair Marie of home.

 

[Muhler]

The tabloid BT has finally unveiled a little more from their interview with Joachim recently: Prins Joachim afviser: Vi har det godt sammen - Royale - BT.dk

Especially in regards to his relationship with Frederik.

The interview took place while Joachim was visiting Ghana, so it's questionable how much of an interview it really was.

Anyway here are the quotes from the articles:

First in regards to Frederik, where the article states that Joachim responed in his usual professional and somewhat guarded manner.

"The relationship between myself and the Crown Prince is really good. We are brothers to each other. The magazines who will sell stories based on nothing but fiction, can write whatever they want. They do not concern/trouble me or the Crown Prince".

"What is occasionally written are not the realities. It's as simple as that. None of us allow ourselves to be shook up/concerned about what is written. I am on the other hand proud that I within a few months will become a double-uncle. I'm looking forward to the event".

About the recent book by Prince Henrik he said:
"I think it's a good book. The family has received it well and has with interest read the interviews. There are many things in the book I cannot recognice and other things I never knew about. And I will not say anything about what I did not know about. But it's funny reading. I percieve my father in my way and that's good".

 

[nwinther]

Princess Marie and father Alain gets new crests

Princess Marie has gotten her (new) crest mounted in Frederiksborg Slostkirke (Church of Frederiksborg) along with her fathers'.

Marie and her father have recieved the right to have their crests displayed in the church, Marie because she's holder of the Order of the Elephant, Alain because he's the holder of the Grand Cross of the Order of Dannebrog.

To see the crests click on the link below (click on the images to see a slightly larger version) - followed by an article in Danish.
Se prinsesse Maries nye våbenskjold

 

[Muhler]

Thank you, nwinter for a most interesting post.

Here is the translation of the article:

Se Princesse Maries nye våbenskjold - See Princess Marie's new crest.
Written by Mia Qvist Scheelsbeck.

Prince Joachim, Princess Marie and Allan Cavallier were present, when the latter two's crest were placed on the walls in the Knights Chapel of the Royal Orders in Frederiksborg castle chapel.
Princess Marie is Knight of the Order of the Elephant, while Allan Cavaller recieves his crest as holder of the Grand Cross of the Order of Dannebrog.

Princess Marie's crest is shown - as is tradition for Danish Princesses (*) - together with Prince Joachims crest (**) in a socalled alliance-crest.
The crest is also crowned with the order of rank for princes and princesses.

In both crests the main motif is a horse, which refers to the name of the family line Cavallier, which means rider/horseman/knight.
There are three secondary figures in Princess Marie's crest, which are hearts with a fleur de lys cut into them. That is the combination of the heart, which is a Danish symbol (***) and the fleur de lys, which is a French symbol. Beside that there is an attribut for the Virgin Mary, which refer to the christian name of the Princess.

In Allan Cavallier's crest the secondary figures are fleur de lys, as a French symbol.
The colors in the two crests are silver (white), red and blue, which are parts of both the Danish and the French flags.

(*) Princesses of Denmark. I.e. princesses who are married into the DRF.

(**) Actually his coat of arms, as the crest is the whole shield.

(***) Hearts are used in the Danish national crest.

 

[Muhler]

And if someone could dig up Mary's crest and merge it with this post, please.

Translation of article in Billed Bladet:

Billed Bladet #20, 2007-05-18.

Her er Marys våbenskjold – Here is Mary’s crest.

- “It’s about the greatest achievement you can aspire to”, says the 27 years old Ronny Andersen proudly, while he looks up at wall in the Knights Chapel (Ridderkapellet) at Frederiksborg Slot. Here Crown Princess Mary’s crest has just been hung up and Ronny is looking forward to see it. Because he designed it, just as he is master of the crest given to her father. The two crests are Ronny Andersen’s debut as royal painter of coats of arms and he has worked on them for a year and a half. During that time the sketches have been presented for both Crown Princess Mary and John Donaldson in Kancellihuset and at Århus University.
- “We thoroughly discussed how the crests should be designed. The Donaldson family has its roots in Scotland and as that is a country with particularly strong heraldic traditions and with strict rules in that field everything had to be in perfect order”, says Ronny Andersen who lives and work in Esbjerg.
Crown Princess Mary received the Order if the Elephant on the 9th of May 2004, fives days prior to her wedding to Crown Prince Frederik and on the same day her father became knight of the Grand Cross of the Order of Dannebrog. That means that in accordance with regulations royal orders of knights that they must have a crest with their coat of arms and proverb hanging on the wall in the chapel of the royal orders in Frederiksborgs Slotskirke. Crown Princess Mary’s crest is historical in the sense that no crest belonging to a Danish crown princess has been hung there previously, just as it hasn’t got a proverb either.

The writing on the edges of the crests in the Knights Chapel is traditionally in Latin, but as the title “crown princess” does not translate directly to Latin and as there is no precedence among the existing crests, the text ended up being: Mary, Princess of Denmark, the wife of the Crown Prince. Written in Latin naturally. (**)
During the work on the Mary and her father’s crests the wish has been that their coat of arms should be as close to what it would have been in Scotland, but also contain some very personal elements from the Donaldson-clan. That John Donaldson also associates himself with the MacDonaldson-clan was clear at the wedding of the CP couple where he wore the kilt of the MacDonaldson-clan and also in his speech to the bridal couple at the dinner in the evening also referred to the history of the clan.
The red double-eagle, on which a black galley with oars and silver-flag is present on both crests, but whereas Mary in the blue shield-head (top part of a shield with heraldics) has a gold-rose between two seven-pointed gold-stars, her father has the mathematical sign for infinity. A reference to his work as mathematician. The proverb “Ad Infinitium” means “Towards Infinity”.
Ronny Andersen has painted Mary’s crest as an alliance-crest with the crest of the Crown Prince, for which there is a tradition in regards to women who have married into the DRF. The coat of arms is crowned with the special crown-prince-crown specified by Christian V in 1693.
Crown Princess Mary’s crest is hanging between the crests of the Crown Prince and Prince Joachim. They got theirs on the 14th of Fabruary 1972 on the day their mother was proclaimed Oueen of Denmark. Above their hang the crest of Prince Henrik and on top the crest of Queen Margrethe.

Written by Anna Johannesen.

A little explanatory not for those who are unfamiliar with the fascinating but also pretty complicated subject of heraldic.
A crest: The entire thing hanging on the wall.
The shield: The painted shield inside every crest. The painting, also called a coat of arms, served as an identification and gave everyone an overview of your family relations. These paintings would also be on a coat worn above your armour in battle. Hence the word: coat of arms.

(**) Mary Principissa Daniae Regni Heredis Conjux Die IX Maji an MMIV.

 

[FasterB]

Beside that there is an attribut for the Virgin Mary, which refer to the christian name of the Princess.

Can anyone determine where this attribut is?

And if someone could dig up Mary's crest and merge it with this post, please.

We have it here: Danish Royal Watchers: Mary's new coat of arms

And Mr. John Donaldson´s C-o-A is there too

Or perhaps even better here: http://www.heraldryaustralia.org/news_and_events.htm#denmark

 

[Muhler]

Can anyone determine where this attribut is?

No, can't see anything either.

Thanks for the additional info, you supplied.

 

[FasterB]

No, can't see anything either.

Thanks for the additional info, you supplied.

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't see this attribut

Muhler, I'm always glad when I can add to your posts

 

[Muhler]

More on crests from my archive:

Part one.

Kristeligt Dagblad.

Våbenskjold på rette plads – Crest on the right place.

Heraldics: Crown Princess Mary’s, Crown Princess Victoria’s and professor John Donaldson’s crests can now be seen in Ridderkapellet = The Knights Chapel at Frederiksborg Slot in Hillerød.

Crown Princess Mary and Crown Princess Victoria’s crests as knights of the Order of the Elephant are now in the right places in Ridderkapellet at Frederiksborg Slot in Hillerød.

Prior to that has gone several years of intense heraldic studies and artistic considerations. The third new crest in The Knights Chapel is that of Mary’s father, professor John Donaldson as a knight of the Order of Dannebrog.

His crest is placed on the wall next to grand-cross-knights as the parents of Prince Henrik, Prince Richard’s mother and former chief of court Søren Haslund Christensen. John Donaldson has taken the proverb “Ad infinitum”, which means “Towards infinity” and refers to the professions as professor in mathematics.

All three crests have been placed in the Knights Chapel in connection with the visit of the Swedish royal couple recently.

Crown Princess Victoria was several years ago made knight of the Order of the Elephant.

That’s why she according to the tradition from 1693 must have here crest on the wall. It hangs next to her parents King Carl Gustaf, Queen Silvia the sister of the King, Princess Christina, the youngest of the Swedish Haga-princesses, who is also knight of the Order of the Elephant.

A slow work process has gone before that. First a crest must be designed. Symbolic language and composition of colours must be approved by Swedish and Danish heraldists. Then the drawings has to be made on a copper-plate and hung on the prescribed place in the Knights Chapel. But it does not end there.

The coat of arms must also be drawn and coloured in Ridderbogen = the Book of Knights from 1693. That means in a protocol consisting of many volumes with all the crests of knights until this day. The book of Knights is thus a cultural-historical treasure, which is kept behind lock and key in Hofmarskallatet. (*)

Mary’s crest has a very distinct story. It is the first time a Danish crown princess has her crest placed in the Knights Chapel, as the Order of the Elephant was only opened for women in 1958.

That happened in connection with the eighteenth birthday of the then heir to the throne, Princess Margrethe on the 16th of April. On the same day King Frederik IV appointed Queen Ingrid to Knight of the Order of the Elephant. The sisters of the heir to the throne, Princess Benedikte and Princess Anne-Marie were also Knight of the Order of the Elephant on their eighteenth birthdays.

Heraldry and thus the teaching of crests and coat of arms stems back to the 1100’s (**) and served to identify the armoured knights. The custom quickly spread all over Europe, where coats of arms became heredity in noble families.

Back then a distinct heraldic style with clear and strict styling arose. – And the rules apply to this day. The story about the making of the three new crests started on the 9th of May 2004.

On that day John Donaldson was made Knight of the Order of Dannebrog, and Mary became Knight of the Order of the Elephant. A solemn day. Five days before the wedding of the 14th of May 2004 Mary Donaldson’s status was changed to Crown Princess.

“Mary Principissa Daniae Regni Herendis Conjus”, is what is written in Latin around the coat of arms, and that means: “Mary, Princess of Denmark, the wife of the Crown Prince”. Because hardly had the court in the autumn of 2003 announced the engagement between Mary Donaldson and Crown Prince Frederik before the historians and heraldists began to speculate in Ordenskapitlet (***) = the Chapter of Orders and in Rigsarkhivet = The Archive of the Realm. The heraldic processor of the state, archivist and senior-researcher Nils Bartholdy went to work in seeking here and there in old books in order to find heraldic information.

While historians and heraldists pondered the entire Denmark was bursting from excitement because of all the happiness in the DRF. The whole world watched from the side. But in the Chapter of Orders the question once again was: Who is Australian Mary Donaldson from Tasmania? How can she be identified? How does her crest look? Or perhaps a new crest should be made for her as Crown Princess and for her father as Knight of the Grand Cross (of the Order of Dannebrog)?

It was professor John Donaldson who showed the flag when he on the 14th of May 2004 went up the aisle in the Scottish kilt of the MacDonald-clan. In the wedding speech he spoke in depth about the history of the clan. In that way he had identified himself and his daughter. Mary is Scottish on all sides of her pedigree. The MacDonald-clan is large, and Scotland has rich heraldic traditions. Nils Bartholdy had already made contacts to colleagues in Scotland and the work started in finding the heraldic symbols of the MacDonald-clan.

Many tourists find their way to the Knights Chapel in Frederiksborg Slotskirke (church) and they often stop it the large crest of the Queen with all the symbols which identify the Regent of Denmark.

The Crown and the coat of arms is framed by the chains of the Order of the Elephant and the Order of Dannebrog, the coat of arms divided into four with hearts and lions, two Southern Jutlandic lions (****), the ram as symbol for the Faroe Islands, and the polar bear for Greenland. To that comes the field with the three crowns, a heraldic leftover from the time of the Kalmar-union (*****), a symbol heraldists still argue about. All of it kept together by a vertical beam in yellow and red, which is the colour of the Oldenburgers (******). Beneath the personal crest of the Queen hangs the Prince Consorts an beneath that the Crown Prince and Prince Joachim’s with Crown Princess Mary’s new alliance-crest in between.

 

[Muhler]

Part two:

So in the Knights Chapel the history is alive and well and connects past and present in an exciting way.

The three crests:

John Donaldson’s crest:
John Donaldson became a knight of the Order of Dannebrog on the 9th of May 2004, when he was made Knight of the Grand Cross. It is that cross you see in the bottom of the crest. On the black background it states that this is Mr. John Donaldson’s crest and that it was given on the 9th of May 2004, five days before he became father-in-law to Crown Prince Frederik. On top it says “Ad infinitum”, which means “Towards infinity”, which is the proverb of John Donaldson. It refers to his career as professor in mathematics. The coat of arms itself is a two-headed eagle covered by a black galley. That is the coat of arms of the MacDonald-clan and above in the blue field of the head of the shield, are two seven pointed stars which frame the mathematical symbol for the infinity. The seven pointed starts are a reference to Australia, as the Australians use the seven pointed stars in their heraldic. Above the shield (on which the coat of arms is painted) is a helmet of rank, which knights of the Grand Cross are entitled to use in their crest and on top of the helmet is a red lion. That is used in Scotland as well as in Tasmania and it’s capital, Hobart, where the family lived during most of Crown Princess Mary’s childhood.
(The rank helmet is incidentally of a type used during the 1400 and 1500’s).

Crown Princess Mary:
Just like her father Crown Princess Mary also got her order, the Order of The Elephant, on the 9th of May 2004 and that is evident on her crest. As the word crown princess does not exist in Latin, they have had to rewrite the text a little. So that it is stated that Mary is Princess of Denmark, the wife of the Crown Prince. That is also evident from the crown placed on top of the two shields, which is inside the crest of the Crown Princess. The crown is the crown of the Crown Prince and is different from the monarch’s crown. When the Crown Princess has two shields inside her crest, it is because there in Denmark is a tradition for women who is married into the DRF get their own coat of arms and the royal Danish coat of arms. The shield to the left in the crest of the Crown Princess is thus the coat of arms of the DRF.
That consists of four fields. Two fields have the three Danish lions. One field has the two Schlesvigan lions and finally in the last field the Faroe goat, the Greenlandic polar bear and the three crowns symbolizing the Kalmar-union. On top of it all is a red and yellow shield, which is the shield of the Oldenburg-family. The shield to the right however is the Crown Princess’ own. At the bottom is the coat of arms of the MacDonald-clan and in the head of the shield the Crown Princess has, just as her father, the two seven pointed stars as symbol for Australia. In between is a heraldic rose, which the Crown Princess herself has chosen as her symbol.

Crown Princess Victoria:
The Swedish Crown Princess who has recently visited Denmark, was made Knight of the Order of the Elephant on her eighteenth birthday, which is evident from the date on her crest. From the crest it is also evident that she is heir to the Swedish throne and they have thus avoided the in Latin non-existing crown princess title. The coat of arms of the Crown Princess is almost identical with the Swedish royal coat of arms. One exception however is the third field of the shield with gold and black lion. That symbolizes Väster-Götland of which the Crown Princess is Duchess. The shield of the Crown Princess is framed by two lions, so called bearers of arms. There is a tradition for that in Sweden, in Denmark however it’s two wild men/cavemen who are bearer of arms. Bearer of arms and shield is surrounded by a weapons-tent in blue colours, which is the colour of Sweden. Crown Princess Victoria’s shield is oval in contrast to Crown Princess Mary’s. That is because there in Sweden is a tradition for women’s shields being oval. Just as in Crown Princess Mary’s crest there is also above the shield of the Swedish Crown Princess a crown – the crown of the crown prince.

Written by Inger-Lise Klausen.

(*) The central administration of the court. Where the chief of court resides.

(**) From a technical point of view: By the 1100’s helmets with a broad nasal-guard and having the face framed with chain-mail was standard equipment. That completely distorted everyone’s facial features.
By the 1200’s the great helmets became standard. They were big barrel-shaped helmets with a horizontal slot for the eyes and a narrow vertical slot for breathing. They must have been a nightmare to fight in!
Great helmets were never particular popular in Scandinavia where cavalry charges were fairly uncommon. Partly due to the terrain, partly due to the costs of good war-mounts. Such charges were almost exclusively done by Danish armies. Skirmishing, raiding and fighting the battles on foot were much more common.
Helmets that in style looked very much like the British helmets of WWI & WWII were extremely popular in Scandinavia. In the rest of Europe these helmets were primarily used by professional soldiers.
That meant that the primary reason for introducing heraldry in Scandinavia back then had more to do with fashion than for practical reasons.

(***) The board dealing with who is going to receive orders and why.

(****) The Danish monarch was duke of Schlesvig and Holsten, not king.

(*****) The union of the three Nordic kingdoms was forged by Queen Margrethe I 700 years ago and was dissolved again within a few decades.

(******) The Oldenburgers preceded the Glücksburgers on the Danish throne.

The crest: The entire thing hanging on the wall.
The coat of arms: The symbols painted on the shield inside the crest.
The shield head: The top part of the shield, above the four fields.

 

[gerry]

mange tak as always Muhler for your erudite explanations. I am intrigued by the ship that I do not think has received mention, in the Donaldson (?) crest. Could this be the viking ship that the Professor mentioned in his memorable speech to his daughter on her wedding day? (there is no beery toast smiley on this board!)

 

[Muhler]

mange tak as always Muhler for your erudite explanations. I am intrigued by the ship that I do not think has received mention, in the Donaldson (?) crest. Could this be the viking ship that the Professor mentioned in his memorable speech to his daughter on her wedding day? (there is no beery toast smiley on this board!)

Thank you.

I don't know the meaning of the ship.

It's not a viking ship though, but a caravel, from around 13-1500.

 

[gerry]

Thank you.

I don't know the meaning of the ship.

It's not a viking ship though, but a caravel, from around 13-1500.

Curious indeed! If I recall, there was a seafarer somewhere in the Donaldson patrimony, so perhaps the caravelle is a reference? But the caravelle was portuguese, no?

 

[Muhler]

Curious indeed! If I recall, there was a seafarer somewhere in the Donaldson patrimony, so perhaps the caravelle is a reference? But the caravelle was portuguese, no?

I dunno.
The ships in heraldic I've seen follow generally a similar pattern in depiction. I.e. a caravelle-like vessel. - Whether it's really a krak or a koq (don't know the names in English) or whatever, I can't say. - Nor can the artists, I guess.

 

[Kataryn]

I found on a webpage about Clan Donald that the ship, they call it a galley, is one of the oldest heraldic symbols in a Scottish crest, going back to the 1000s. The Clan Donald reigned the Western Isles for centuries and the galley symbolizes the claim of the chieftain to be the "Lord of the Isles". This title over the centuries became part of the title of the heir to the Scottish throne along with the title of "prince of Scotland", today Prince Charles as the Duke of Rothesay holds the title. But the ship in Mary's and her father's crest shows that once her family were the rulers of "The Isles" in Scotland.

 

[Muhler]

Thanks for the explanation, Kataryn

An interesting piece of family history.

 

[Muhler]

Billed Bladet has a little more on the Christmas at Schackenborg 2010.

Summary of article in Billed Bladet #50, 2010.
Det bliver en dejlig fest - It'll be a lovely party.
Written by Ken Richter.

There will ten at the table at Schackenborg Christmas Eve:
Joachim.
Our Marie.
Bette Henrik.
Nikolai.
Felix.
QMII.
Prince Henrik.
Francoise Grassiot.
Christian Grassiot.
Peter Parkov. (Who always celebrate Christmas with the DRF).

In charge of all the dinners during Christmas at Schackenborg, will be 20 year old Rasmus Lodahl. A cook apprentise from Schackenborg Manor Inn. He is six months away from graduation.
He is not a bad cook as he is to take part in the Danish Championships for cooks apprenticies later on.
He's slightly nervous, but it's also a challenge where he is allowed to unfurl himself. "I'll admit I'm a little proud", he says.

Prince Henrik said about this Christmas: "The Family is the most important thing at Christmas and Christmas is both cosy (hyggelig) and full of traditions.
The Queen and I will naturally also go to Marselisborg Manor in Aarhus as is tradition. But we will stay for two Christmas days at our son and daughter-in-law at Schackenborg and we look very much forward to that.
For obvious reasons the CP-couple will not attend this year. They will stay at home at Amalienborg".

 

[Benedikte]

I'm sorry to say that Marie is not very bright.

From the beginning she has been called naiv.

Look at this picture from a meeting with unesco. I think the picture speaks for it self. Marie is only able to keep her patronage for skiing. A patronage like unesco is to much for her.

Keder du dig, Marie? - Royale - BT.dk

 

[Sternchen]

Billed Bladet has a little more on the Christmas at Schackenborg 2010.

Summary of article in Billed Bladet #50, 2010.
Det bliver en dejlig fest - It'll be a lovely party.
Written by Ken Richter.

There will ten at the table at Schackenborg Christmas Eve:
Joachim.
Our Marie.
Bette Henrik.
Nikolai.
Felix.
QMII.
Prince Henrik.
Francoise Grassiot.
Christian Grassiot.
Peter Parkov. (Who always celebrate Christmas with the DRF).

In charge of all the dinners during Christmas at Schackenborg, will be 20 year old Rasmus Lodahl. A cook apprentise from Schackenborg Manor Inn. He is six months away from graduation.
He is not a bad cook as he is to take part in the Danish Championships for cooks apprenticies later on.
He's slightly nervous, but it's also a challenge where he is allowed to unfurl himself. "I'll admit I'm a little proud", he says.

Prince Henrik said about this Christmas: "The Family is the most important thing at Christmas and Christmas is both cosy (hyggelig) and full of traditions.
The Queen and I will naturally also go to Marselisborg Manor in Aarhus as is tradition. But we will stay for two Christmas days at our son and daughter-in-law at Schackenborg and we look very much forward to that.
For obvious reasons the CP-couple will not attend this year. They will stay at home at Amalienborg".

Hm, wasn't it written somewhere that Marie is soooo excited to prepare a meal for so many people? Well, I guess she can relax now