General News about Frederik, Mary and Family 8: March - May 2011

[mellie]

This is from the family walking at Kastellet.

BB says he was cleanshaven when they went sailing in Copenhagen harbour Sunday.

Thanks Muhler. Look forward to see some pictures then.

 

[Juliette2]

I read on the Royal Correspondent Blog (a new website for me) that in the past Frederik has been admitted to suffering from depression. Honestly, I had never heard of it. Is there any substance to this claim?

we all need to get out once in a while

Well, I have to say that after seeing the video of Frederick at the nightclub dancing with the blond girl I was a bit disappointed. Not by the girl but by the fact that he seemed REALLY drunk! Now, on thing is to go out and have fun (even when your wife is at home with 4 kids...) but getting wasted like that is...bah...irresponsible. Maybe it's just the way I think but I found the video a bit disturbing (for lack of a more tame word!)

 

[Sternchen]

The word depression was never really mentioned iirc. He said, that he was in a dark mood for a period. But I am sure, that Muhler has some direct quotes, IIRC, it was mentioned in the book for Fred's 40th Birthday?

 

[Muhler]

I read on the Royal Correspondent Blog (a new website for me) that in the past Frederik has been admitted to suffering from depression. Honestly, I had never heard of it. Is there any substance to this claim?

Yes, from the horse's own mouth, so to speak.

When he was in his late teens and early to mid twenties, it was very obvious that Frederik was not enthusiastic about the prospect of becoming king and that the royal duties was just that. Duties, not an experience or a pleasure.
It was in that period that many felt Joachim would make a better future king. (Myself included).
Anyway, Frederik was then interviewed (I can't remember by who, was it Bodil Cath?) and in this very personal and frank interview, he talked about how he had big problems getting to terms with the fact that he was destined to become a king. It wasn't the life he really wanted.
That caused a huge debate at the time, and I'd say it was the beginning of turning people's perception of him, from the impression of him being immature and yes, spoiled, to giving people an insight into the sensitive and reflecting personality he has.
One of the things that naturally caused a big stir, because it made good headlines, was that he talked about whether it wouldn't be better "if he ended it all". Everybody who has been down are probably familiar with the thought of suicide going through your mind, but there is a very big leap from that, to actually seriously contemplating suicide and I doubt Frederik ever reached that stage.
So, yes, I'd say he suffered from a depression to at least some extent. Or a lengthy identity or personality crisis, if you will. Whether he is still prone to suffering at least minor depressions, I cannot say.
What is my firm impression is that he in Mary found his mental rock, his mental support. - Just as his grandfather, Frederik IX, found his "rock" in Queen Ingrid.

 

[missMaryanne]

This is from the family walking at Kastellet.

BB says he was cleanshaven when they went sailing in Copenhagen harbour Sunday.

well, i have to see it to believe it...are there any pics of federik on that sailing day????

 

[MARG]

Well, I have to say that after seeing the video of Frederick at the nightclub dancing with the blond girl I was a bit disappointed. Not by the girl but by the fact that he seemed REALLY drunk! Now, on thing is to go out and have fun (even when your wife is at home with 4 kids...) but getting wasted like that is...bah...irresponsible. Maybe it's just the way I think but I found the video a bit disturbing (for lack of a more tame word!)

Okay, we have already discovered that the Nightclub was in fact, hired by Frederik and Mary to entertain their many guests from all over the world.

Frederik, Joachim and Marie picked up the hosting duties as, let's face it, with a house full of kids, a big dinner and breastfeeding twins prior to the morning's Christening, I really don't think Mary would have enjoyed a late night party either at home or at the Nightclub.

So, no moral high ground on that score but on the strength of a few minutes of grainy mobile video with multi-coloured strobe lights flashing you are Disappointed and can tell that Fred was Wasted, Irresponsible and the whole video was Disturbing?

You're darned, right it was disturbing! In that someone violated their privacy at a private function, undoubtedly made a tidy sum of money selling it to the media who have been having a field day inferring Frederik abandoned Mary to go partying (never mind the mysterious "Blonde"), so that credulous people can vilify him at will, without even bothering to verify the facts!

 

[Muhler]

well, i have to see it to believe it...are there any pics of federik on that sailing day????

Yes, from the paper version of Billed Bladet.

Frederik has lost his beard. So depending on how you feel choose the appropriate smiley:

 

[Juliette2]

Yes, from the horse's own mouth, so to speak.

When he was in his late teens and early to mid twenties, it was very obvious that Frederik was not enthusiastic about the prospect of becoming king and that the royal duties was just that. Duties, not an experience or a pleasure.[...]
So, yes, I'd say he suffered from a depression to at least some extent. Or a lengthy identity or personality crisis, if you will. Whether he is still prone to suffering at least minor depressions, I cannot say.
What is my firm impression is that he in Mary found his mental rock, his mental support. - Just as his grandfather, Frederik IX, found his "rock" in Queen Ingrid.

Muhler - Thank you so much! This was very helpful. I absolutely agree with you in thinking that Mary was instrumental in helping him found some serenity. Lately, however, he seems to be a bit "down," beyond the obvious fatigue due to the twins. In the months preceding their birth he gave the impression of being a bit "lost."

P.S. Maybe "ending it" referred to the possibility of abdicating?

[I edited the quote just to take up less space...!]

Okay, we have already discovered that the Nightclub was in fact, hired by Frederik and Mary to entertain their many guests from all over the world.

Frederik, Joachim and Marie picked up the hosting duties as, let's face it, with a house full of kids, a big dinner and breastfeeding twins prior to the morning's Christening, I really don't think Mary would have enjoyed a late night party either at home or at the Nightclub.

So, no moral high ground on that score but on the strength of a few minutes of grainy mobile video with multi-coloured strobe lights flashing you are Disappointed and can tell that Fred was Wasted, Irresponsible and the whole video was Disturbing?

You're darned, right it was disturbing! In that someone violated their privacy at a private function, undoubtedly made a tidy sum of money selling it to the media who have been having a field day inferring Frederik abandoned Mary to go partying (never mind the mysterious "Blonde"), so that credulous people can vilify him at will, without even bothering to verify the facts!

Marg -

1) I didn't know that the nightclub was booked by M&F to entertaining the guests but it makes little difference. I'm just sorry because I guess that it must have been one of their "friends" or a nightclub employee who sold the video.
2) I agree that Mary would have had little desire to spend an evening partying !
3) Even with the grainy images and the lights it really did look like Frederik was quite drunk (loosing his balance for a moment, too) therefore the use of the word "wasted." Anyone getting drunk is "irresponsible" in my opinion. I couldn't find a lighter word instead of "disturbing" and I said so.
4) I agree that it is very sad that his privacy was violated
5) I absolutely disagree with those who think that Frederick "abandoned" Mary to go partying. Obviously, that's rubbish.
6) Again, the fact that he was dancing with a girl (whoever she is I couldn't care less) makes no difference to the opinion I have about drinking too much. I said so.
7) You seem to put a lot of weight on my choice of words but...shouldn't words be a "little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking"?

 

[Muhler]

Muhler - Thank you so much! This was very helpful. I absolutely agree with you in thinking that Mary was instrumental in helping him found some serenity. Lately, however, he seems to be a bit "down," beyond the obvious fatigue due to the twins. In the months preceding their birth he gave the impression of being a bit "lost."

P.S. Maybe "ending it" referred to the possibility of abdicating?

[I edited the quote just to take up less space...!]

You are welcome.

No, Frederik referred specifically to ending his own life.
That was mentioned in a long interview and not en passant as such, but almost. Which to me indicates that it wasn't something he considered doing in earnest, not even as a cry for help. More as a thought, and unfortunately not an uncommon thought.

His personal crisis was indeed mentioned in the portrait book, which Sternchen refers to and if there is an interest I may dig up some more. That is when I find the time to do it. The weather is great, so the garden calls.

 

[missMaryanne]

Muhler - Thank you so much! This was very helpful. I absolutely agree with you in thinking that Mary was instrumental in helping him found some serenity. Lately, however, he seems to be a bit "down," beyond the obvious fatigue due to the twins. In the months preceding their birth he gave the impression of being a bit "lost."

P.S. Maybe "ending it" referred to the possibility of abdicating?


[I edited the quote just to take up less space...!]

well, the spanish version of that interview says "cuando me miro al espejo y pienso en mi vida, siento tentaciones de quitarmela" ("when i look at myself in the mirror and think about my life, i have a temptation of
taking it off")... i don't know, maybe it's just to sell magazines... anything is possible...

Yes, from the paper version of Billed Bladet.

Frederik has lost his beard. So depending on how you feel choose the appropriate smiley:

i like him with or without beard, that's no problem for me...aren't there any pictures online yet?

that beard, was a promise or something like that? beacase he stopped shaving when he found out mary was pregnant, and after the twins' christening, he decided to shave again...

thanks for answering my question;-)

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I agree with what Muhler said earlier about Frederik and his troubled character.

I am sure Mary knows exactly who she is dealing with and that it is part of the package that parts of Frederik are beyond her control so to say. Therefore, what happend with the blonde is not important at all. Mary is Frederiks wife, has 4 children and is very aware and ambitious re her position as CP and future Queen meaning that there is no question that she will put up with any downsides there may be. Frederiks "flaws" are there to stay, only this time the public got to notice and it fits that Danes are not really interested because its Frederik as they know him and he has always been honest about it.

Would be a different matter if Joachim was concerned who, I agree, has more of an image problem than his brother as his perception is very different, not in a positive way.

 

[Muhler]

I agree with what Muhler said earlier about Frederik and his troubled character.

I am sure Mary knows exactly who she is dealing with and that it is part of the package that parts of Frederik are beyond her control so to say. Therefore, what happend with the blonde is not important at all. Mary is Frederiks wife, has 4 children and is very aware and ambitious re her position as CP and future Queen meaning that there is no question that she will put up with any downsides there may be. Frederiks "flaws" are there to stay, only this time the public got to notice and it fits that Danes are not really interested because its Frederik as they know him and he has always been honest about it.

Would be a different matter if Joachim was concerned who, I agree, has more of an image problem than his brother as his perception is very different, not in a positive way.

Eeh, what flaws?

He had serious problems coming to terms or rather accept his predestined role, that is beyond dispute.
He has, as he has matured, accepted his future role and according to what he says himself, he is now ready to do his very best, when his time comes. And indeed he has started. You can say that Mary has gone further, but she is in the position that she is younger, more glamourous and the interest in her as a consequence is much bigger. As a Crown Princess she has also more space to commit herself in various issues, instead of Frederik, who to put it brutally is in a waiting position, before he can put his particular mark on things in earnest.

As for the nightclub. Frederik did nothing wrong in my eyes. The woman has been positively identified as someone he personally know through very close friends indeed. Frederik's friends were present. Mary's brother was present. I cannot imagine he would go to a nightclub with his brother-in-law if Mary would be upset about that.
Palle Hvenegaard, a member of the outer circle of friends who were invited to the afterparty, joked to the journalists when he left and said the: "Frederik has snatched all the blondes". I cannot imagine either that a friend of M&F would crack such a joke if there was anything remotely true in that. You just don't, that would be extremely poor taste. Normally you keep your mouth shut, if you suspect an aquiantace of yours is fooling around.
Now, one of the things where I feel I can relate to Frederik is how he is as a family man. I strongly believe he is a devoted husband and father and should his and Mary's marriage at some point be strained, it will not be because Frederik is fooling around with another women, whether he is under influence of alcohol or not. Period! You just don't do that to the woman you consider your "rock".

Is it appropriate to go to a nightclub, a discreet nightclub at that, when your wife is breastfeeding twins? Yes. Your wife is most likely pretty wasted in the evening and you relieve her by taking care of her family and friends who are visiting. And that can include taking them to town.
What if you get drunk? Well, if you are surrounded by good and genuine friends, you will not be allowed to embarrass yourself. That's the mark of a true friendship.
Is it okay for husband and wives to go to town alone from time to time? I believe so. If my wife and I sat home every night or only went out together, our marriage would slowly die. We need to spend time with our friends from time to time and tell dirty jokes or whatever. We husbands take turn in picking up our wives, and they take turn driving us husbands home as well. Works fine.
My point is: you cannot prevent your husband/wife from having an affair by being with him/her constantly in your sparetime. Nor can you ensure he/she will continue to love you just as much as when you got married, by being together all the time. Forget that.
What's important is the affection and attention you give each other, when you are together. And the trust you show each other, when you are not.
I believe and hope M&F have found a similar balance in their marriage.

 

[Juliette2]

Eeh, what flaws?

He had serious problems coming to terms or rather accept his predestined role, that is beyond dispute.
He has, as he has matured, accepted his future role and according to what he says himself, he is now ready to do his very best, when his time comes. And indeed he has started. [...]
My point is: you cannot prevent your husband/wife from having an affair by being with him/her constantly in your sparetime. Nor can you ensure he/she will continue to love you just as much as when you got married, by being together all the time. Forget that.
What's important is the affection and attention you give each other, when you are together. And the trust you show each other, when you are not.
I believe and hope M&F have found a similar balance in their marriage.

Muhler: You are so WISE!!!! Great post.

About the issue of depression, it is a topic that interests me personally and although I've always thought that Frederick is a vulnerable and sensitive man, I was not aware of his difficulties. But I think that it's good that he was open about it. Many consider his role a privileged one, but it can certainly be stressful to be "forced" into a role you have not chosen. It also reminds me of the difficulties Princess Victoria had when she was younger with eating disorders. It is not an easy place to be.

 

[Frelinghighness]

Thank you Muhler and Juliette for your wise posts.

 

[iceflower]

__________________


Here's the BB online article about the walk the day after the christening:


** Billeder: Mary på spadseretur med familie og venner ** translation **

 

[dazzling]

__________________


Here's the BB online article about the walk the day after the christening:


** Billeder: Mary på spadseretur med familie og venner ** translation **

Thanks for the links, it looked like a nice day and they did some sightings with the family & friends. Its nice to see them together taking pictures and hanging out. Mary & Patricia look so much alike.

 

[dazzling]

All posts on the Royal family series has been move to the
Danish TV series "The Monarchy Inside" by DR
thread​

 

[Carminha Stalker]

I sincerely hope that CP Frederick is not an irresponsible husband and father. That he is truthful and still in love with his wife and proud of his four lovely children.However, it´s not the first time one reads about his "absences".If it´s true or not that he was dancing with a blonde, one thing is for sure, his lovely wife does not deserve this kind of thing. As a matter of fact, No wife deserves this kind of attitude.

 

[Muhler]

I sincerely hope that CP Frederick is not an irresponsible husband and father. That he is truthful and still in love with his wife and proud of his four lovely children.However, it´s not the first time one reads about his "absences".If it´s true or not that he was dancing with a blonde, one thing is for sure, his lovely wife does not deserve this kind of thing. As a matter of fact, No wife deserves this kind of attitude.

That your husband is in a nightclub with your own brother and some of your friends? And that he is dancing (if you can call that dancing) with someone you know, who also happens to be a personal friend of some of your best friends?

If that is a major issue for Mary, she would have been better off marrying a monk.

Try turn the table around.
Mary is photographed in say three months from now in a nightclub a few days before a major event in the DRF. Seemingly dancing with a young blonde man, who happens to be a friend of say Caroline and Peter Heering. In the precense of friends and with Joachim present as well.
Frederik is at home with the children.

How many of you would feel that's no way to treat a husband? Or even raise an eyebrow?

 

[antonieta]

That your husband is in a nightclub with your own brother and some of your friends? And that he is dancing (if you can call that dancing) with someone you know, who also happens to be a personal friend of some of your best friends?

If that is a major issue for Mary, she would have been better off marrying a monk.

Try turn the table around.
Mary is photographed in say three months from now in a nightclub a few days before a major event in the DRF. Seemingly dancing with a young blonde man, who happens to be a friend of say Caroline and Peter Heering. In the precense of friends and with Joachim present as well.
Frederik is at home with the children.

How many of you would feel that's no way to treat a husband? Or even raise an eyebrow?

In my own opinion, the reaction would be the same,
Obligations, duties, responsabilities, call it what you want, are equal, no matter if the person in question is a prince, or a princess, an anonimous...it's equall.

 

[puddytat]

Why is it people jump to the worst possible conclusions when something like this hits the media?

We now know the kind of company Frederik was with - his in-laws, close friends, and still there is all this moral outrage that he was doing something wrong.

Has nobody considered a practical and sensible solution was found to entertaining out of town guests and family when a house (or palace) full of people might have been an issue when trying to get two small, possibly excited children in bed? Or, that Mary had not one, but two infants to nurse and settled down for the night? Her burden of visiting with family and friends, the planning of the upcoming christening, plus nursing was quite a full plate and maybe there was a consideration for her needing some peace and quiet.

All that talking, laughing and commotion even in a building as large as one of the Amalienborg palaces might not be completely soundproofed. Or, that the private apartments are not all that large, either, to contain a good sized group of noisy adults.

Not to put too delicate a point on the discussion, but the worst kind of behaviours are usually done behind very private walls, not public nightclubs.

 

[Muhler]

In my own opinion, the reaction would be the same,
Obligations, duties, responsabilities, call it what you want, are equal, no matter if the person in question is a prince, or a princess, an anonimous...it's equall.

Fair enough.

We just see things differently then.

 

[eliz]

muhler, thanks for your very interesting posts re frederik's attitude, depression and newly found stability in mary.
if i'm not mistaken, you said that once you thought that joachim would have been the better heir then changed your mind, like many other danes, given that f is the nost loved one of the two brothers by the public right now.
well, i have to say that frederik must have done an amazing job in growing up, becoming more secure, accepting his role etc and also showing his insecurities and being accepted and loved his insecurities notwithstanding.
perhaps it is the first time that a royal, and a future king nonetheless, opens up so much about his personal issues, and i reckon it paid off, both for frederik, who doesn't have to pretend to be different from what he really is, and for Danish people, who should get the feeling to know frederik and his inner battles well

 

[dazzling]

Mary and Frederik on Harbour Cruise
Translated article from BB

 

[Muhler]

muhler, thanks for your very interesting posts re frederik's attitude, depression and newly found stability in mary.
if i'm not mistaken, you said that once you thought that joachim would have been the better heir then changed your mind, like many other danes, given that f is the nost loved one of the two brothers by the public right now.
well, i have to say that frederik must have done an amazing job in growing up, becoming more secure, accepting his role etc and also showing his insecurities and being accepted and loved his insecurities notwithstanding.
perhaps it is the first time that a royal, and a future king nonetheless, opens up so much about his personal issues, and i reckon it paid off, both for frederik, who doesn't have to pretend to be different from what he really is, and for Danish people, who should get the feeling to know frederik and his inner battles well

I think so too, being honest about your issues is often helpful.

The thing that really changed my view on Frederik's suitability as a king can be summarized into one word: Mary.
He was open about his problems accepting his destiny. That is something I respect.
The navy special forces and the trek in Greenland are individually very impressive accomplishments, but in themselves they may not necessarily make him more suitable as a king.
He lost perhaps his closest confidente, Queen Ingrid, in 2000 while he at the same time met Mary.
Mary was different in the sense that she was the first sweetheart he actually moved in with, albeit unofficially.
It's my impression that Frederik felt very insecure, was afraid and basically lost, when he tried to look into the future. But first and foremost I believe he was lonely. - Something QMII has hinted.
Now he had someone he felt he could securely face the future with.
Someone he could share the burden of being a royal with on a day to day basis.
Getting married and setteling down in earnest is a big change in everyones lives.
Having children, good grief, also changes things. A lot! And it matures you.
On top of that he has passed 40, and whether you are willing to admit it or not, something happens to you around that age.
I think Frederik now looks at the future as a challenge, rather than as something scary.

Don't get me wrong, Mary is no superhuman. Most of her accomplishments, I believe, come from hard work.
I'm certain she has found her anchor in Frederik as well. I find it most telling when they are on the job together. Mary is much more relaxed then, and sometimes almost girlish. That's why they complement each other so well on official travels.
I'm I no doubt whatsoever that Mary sometimes, perhaps often, is very nervous. With Frederik around she has a huge moral support, just by his presence.
I have a great confidence in Mary's abilities. Should QMII say tomorrow: "Mary, I'll take the rest of the family for a trek down the Amazonas and you are going to be Regent until we return. Oh, and the PM will probably call a general election within the next few weeks. You'll deal with that as well, okay? See you in a couple of months or so".
I wouldn't be nervous for her. Eventhough she would have to, on her own, to accept the resignation of the government and Parliament. Meet the various chairmen of the parties and listen to whom they point to as the next PM after the election and formally appoint the new government.

It's the Frederik and Mary team that is crucial for my perception of Frederik's suitability as king. An impression I don't have on my own and which can boiled down to: Frederik on his own? Yeah okay, he'll probably be a fine king. Mary and Frederik? They will be fine regent couple.

That doesn't mean I've dismissed Joachim. Oh no. Joachim is still way superiour to Frederik when it comes to formal representation, accompanying business and diplomatic delegations, giving formal speeches. - The more stiff but still essential part of being a royal.

I genuinely think that we Danes are, pardon me, damned fortunate in having both M&F and J&M, individually the four of them appeal in particular to different segments of the population while at the same time not being so different that the segments don't very much overlap.
They have different ways of approaching their jobs and that's a strength.

Hmm, a long post as usual.
Well, if you made it this far, you'll probably get my meaning.

 

[FasterB]

Muhler, what an excellent post. I couldn´t have said it better myself.

 

[Terri Terri]

Well said indeed Muhler!

 

[Catharina]

Muhler, what more can I say, you just said it all!

I take it is already official that the Crown Prince couple will not be attending the wedding in London? What a shame... I had such high hopes that finally the "young circle of royals" would meet Prince William and Catherine. I know about the traditions that BRF has about attending weddings etc. (they're so very private I guess or uninterested) but I've sort of hoped that one day we would get to see other royals than Edward and Sophie with Haakon, Mette-Marit, Joachim, Marie, Frederik, Mary, Victoria, Daniel, W-A, Maxima etc. I know that CPC from the Netherlands, Spain and Sweden will attend but still.

I know it might be too much to ask that the BRF would change a little. I doubt they will. To me they just seem like those distant relatives that rarely bother to attend when you invite them and to whom you talk to very seldom, only sending the occasional Christmas card.

 

[princess gertrude]

Definately well said Muhler! I've never thought about it all together, but makes perfect sense. Good job!

 

[Muhler]

I know it might be too much to ask that the BRF would change a little. I doubt they will. To me they just seem like those distant relatives that rarely bother to attend when you invite them and to whom you talk to very seldom, only sending the occasional Christmas card.

Yes, looking from this side of the North Sea, that's basically what I and many other Danes feel as well.

I've followed the debate about the guestlist in the BRF thread.
And I can't quite figure out the way the invitations have been decided on.

Anyway, I guess QMII is going, assuming M&F could go as well, simply because Mary is on maternity leave.
Next on the list after the Regent Couple would be J&M, but if they are going to Monaco, which is hinted and which would be a logic move, it would seem more natural that QMII go.
How about Prince Henrik? Well, he is semi-retired and honestly I think he couldn't be bothered.

Okay, okay, I've seen the many arguments for this being a BRF tradition, family relations, William being the next heir after current one, there being an economic crisis going on... All of it valid points and probably true as well.
I just wish the (added: the younger members of the) BRF would start to look beyond the Channel and interact more with the other European royals.
If for no other reason than out of consideration to Kate and whoever will be Harry's wife. Kate certainly is in a unique position and there aren't that many crown princesses around, so perhaps she would like some advise? I mean, who else can she ask? William? He doesn't look much like a woman/princess to me, however supportive he may be as a husband. QEII? With all due respect, she was a princess in the early 50's.
She can't ask William's mother, she would be an obvious councellor.
Camilla? I dunno. She is, to put it mildly, in a pretty unique positions as well. A position which is very different from Kate's. Not to mention the very considerable age gap.
Then there are William's aunts? Well, Fergie is probably out of the picture, so there is only one left.

I don't buy the argument about there being a considerable difference in age between Harry & William and the similar royals on the Continent. They are not kids anymore and when you are in your late twenties it is actually possible to be friends with someone who are older than you and who have married and settled down.