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  #201  
Old 12-30-2005, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyemma
if you'd reread spiffyballerina's post you'd see the only person she was blaming was the media. you're so defensive of mary you perceive insults to her where there are none.
If you reread over the page, SpiffyBallerina's post, you may see why I have replied the way I did.

I know that she recognises Marys other patronages but she is pin pointing the balme on the Crown Princess in regards to the media attention on the fashion side of things.

Defensive of Mary? when there are people flying insults at the woman (and not just in this thread) built upon pure assumptions (and that is all they are is assumptions), I think defending someones name is the right thing to do, If you dont, too bad.

Spiffy Ballerina has made her view (which is her right) most well known (not solely in this thread) by calling the Crown Princess, & I quote 'A spoiled brat'!

Something I have learned, is how can anyone possibly claim that he or she doesn't like a person when they have only seen photos or a video link? I have no negative or ill feelings towards any of the Crown Princesses whatsoever as I have no reason or right to make such claims.


"MII"
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  #202  
Old 12-30-2005, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margrethe II
Something I have learned, is how can anyone possibly claim that he or she doesn't like a person when they have only seen photos or a video link? I have no negative or ill feelings towards any of the Crown Princesses whatsoever as I have no reason or right to make such claims.


"MII"
hmmm...I have to disagree with you on this point. I DO think its possible to know a lot about someone from photos, articles, how they interact with people, the ways they spend their time etc. especially Mary who has given an especially high volume of interviews as compared to the other European Crownprincesses.

of course its unfair to make an assumption about someone after seeing a few photos but after a lot of photos, reading lots of articles etc etc yes you can get a good impression of what someone is really like.
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  #203  
Old 12-30-2005, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyemma
hmmm...I have to disagree with you on this point. I DO think its possible to know a lot about someone from photos, articles, how they interact with people, the ways they spend their time etc. especially Mary who has given an especially high volume of interviews as compared to the other European Crownprincesses.

of course its unfair to make an assumption about someone after seeing a few photos but after a lot of photos, reading lots of articles etc etc yes you can get a good impression of what someone is really like.
Fair enough, I respect that this is your opinion but I disagree...

I hardly think that one is able to claim that they know alot about a person from a few articles (the media is hardly a reliable source unless they have had a one on one interview(s) which you noted), in photos I have seen nothing but a down to earth, vibrant & happy woman who is sincere & warm hearted. She is always smiling.

Mary is so much more than a "fashion obsessed" Crown Princess and I do take issue with her being label as such.

That said, I dont want this situation to linger and dominate general discussion.

"MII"
  #204  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margrethe II
Fair enough, I respect that this is your opinion but I disagree...

I hardly think that one is able to claim that they know alot about a person from a few articles (the media is hardly a reliable source unless they have had a one on one interview(s) which you noted), in photos I have seen nothing but a down to earth, vibrant & happy woman who is sincere & warm hearted. She is always smiling.

Mary is so much more than a "fashion obsessed" Crown Princess and I do take issue with her being label as such.

That said, I dont want this situation to linger and dominate general discussion.

"MII"
I agree with you Margrethe II, it is IMPOSSIBLE to determine someones personality based on photographs. Some members of my family look strict and snobbish in photos but in reality they are fun cheerful people. I would say the same is about Mary. Poor woman, leave her alone for a change and stop bullying her.(to those select few in this forum). Also, i dont think that the Queen would allow her to join the family if she thought she was a snobbish and uptight person or whatever the anti-mary poeple say she is. I think the Queen might be a good judge of personality and she obviously approved of Mary. And the Queen can judge as she has actually MET Mary not through viewing pictures but actually seeing her in the flesh :)
  #205  
Old 12-31-2005, 07:30 AM
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"Fair enough, I respect that this is your opinion but I disagree...

I hardly think that one is able to claim that they know alot about a person from a few articles (the media is hardly a reliable source unless they have had a one on one interview(s) which you noted), in photos I have seen nothing but a down to earth, vibrant & happy woman who is sincere & warm hearted. She is always smiling.

Mary is so much more than a "fashion obsessed" Crown Princess and I do take issue with her being label as such."

I find this an interesting comment becuase by looking at the same articles and photographs you seem to have concluded that Mary is a wonderful person. Yet you seem to criticise others for doing the same thing and reaching a different conclusion. Or at least that's what it seems.
  #206  
Old 12-31-2005, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
"Fair enough, I respect that this is your opinion but I disagree...

I hardly think that one is able to claim that they know alot about a person from a few articles (the media is hardly a reliable source unless they have had a one on one interview(s) which you noted), in photos I have seen nothing but a down to earth, vibrant & happy woman who is sincere & warm hearted. She is always smiling.

Mary is so much more than a "fashion obsessed" Crown Princess and I do take issue with her being label as such."

I find this an interesting comment becuase by looking at the same articles and photographs you seem to have concluded that Mary is a wonderful person. Yet you seem to criticise others for doing the same thing and reaching a different conclusion. Or at least that's what it seems.
It can seem to you however you like.

My conclusion is not purely based upon articles in gossip mags and photos like it is for yourself, but I think that having personally met the Crown Princess, I can quite comfortably say that she is not the many things some people here, have misconstrued her to be.

"MII"
  #207  
Old 12-31-2005, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
"Fair enough, I respect that this is your opinion but I disagree...

I hardly think that one is able to claim that they know alot about a person from a few articles (the media is hardly a reliable source unless they have had a one on one interview(s) which you noted), in photos I have seen nothing but a down to earth, vibrant & happy woman who is sincere & warm hearted. She is always smiling.

Mary is so much more than a "fashion obsessed" Crown Princess and I do take issue with her being label as such."

I find this an interesting comment becuase by looking at the same articles and photographs you seem to have concluded that Mary is a wonderful person. Yet you seem to criticise others for doing the same thing and reaching a different conclusion. Or at least that's what it seems.
well like i said in my previous post, the Queen wouldnt have allowed her in to the family if she wasnt a wonderful person. Also, Frederik obviously sees some good in her, otherwuise why would he have married her? Do you think he would have married a person who the anti-mary people say she is? The Queen has met her and therefore came to the conclusion that she would do good for the monarchy etc, and she met her not through photos but in person.
  #208  
Old 12-31-2005, 08:07 AM
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"My conclusion is not purely based upon articles in gossip mags and photos like it is for yourself, but I think that having personally met the Crown Princess, I can quite comfortably say that she is not the many things some people here, have misconstrued her to be."

My information on Mary isn't purely "gossip" as you seem determined to suggest.
  #209  
Old 12-31-2005, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
My information on Mary isn't purely "gossip" as you seem determined to suggest.
Oh...right...

So as to not fill this thread with further "getting no where conversation" (which I think we can all safely say gets us no where fast), you are more than welcome to write me through the Forums email service "LS", and explain what you implied to be, reliable sources..of course only if you wish to!

"MII"
  #210  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:09 PM
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Let's bear in mind that Mary has been in the public eye going on 5 years now...Her life has been completely exposed by the media...Emma Tom just wrote an unauthorized biography on her and could not find any hidden dirty secrets on Mary! Reading a lot of the internet message boards on royalty, there are a lot of people who do not like Mary (which is entirely their right)! However, if any of these people had any "information" on Mary...they could have sold it to the media by now! In addition, the DRF would have had Mary's past checked out, so they know everything there is to know about her! So anyone claiming to have such exclusive information (truthful and untruthful)..do not know anything that we have not heard about Mary already...even Emma Tom in her book criticized the nasty comments written about Mary on the internet as the work of "fustrated and unimaginative fiction writers".
In the final analysis...anyone who cares to take the time to find out the truth and the facts would know that Mary does a lot of other work besides being the patron for the Danish Fashion industry (as can be seen from the numerous threads of her activities on this message board)...in addition, she has a loving husband, has produced a son and direct heir to the Danish throne, learnt one of the most difficult languages in the world to the point of being fluent, has the support of a royal family that allows her to thrive and grow in her role as Crown Princess and has the support of the Danish people! And no matter who claims to have this so-called "information" on Her Royal Highness The Crown Princess Mary Elizabeth of Denmark...nothing can change the fact that she is presently the wife of the Crown Prince of Denmark, the mother of the future King of Denmark and a respected senior member of the Danish Royal Family!
  #211  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margrethe II
Yeah, ok....and that's really Mary's fault

"MII"
I never said it was her fault - it's obviously not. However, she's not stupid. She CAN control the press by determining in what events she will and will not participate. CP Mary is no idiot and she knows that fashion gets the most press. She could easily choose to channel that attention into something else. People are not just victims of the press - the people within the household are adept at trying to manipulate\control coverage so it comes out as favorable to the patron.

And yes, I do say that Mary seems a spoiled brat sometimes because she seems aloof and distant whenever she doesn't feel like being bothered. The defense that she's a person too doesn't count for much these days because she knew what she was getting into with all its responsibilities, and I find it repulsive to pity a person who has made a choice and then seems upset when it isn't exactly what she wants all the time. She has more than anyone else can dare to dream about, so the smiles for the press, even if she's not in the mood, are the least she can do. Besides, the other CPs of Europe are under just as much pressure as CP Mary, and I don't get the annoyed princess act from any of them. I'm not even a fan of all European CPs, but they at least put on a good act. CP Mary's attitude is a sense I get from watching videos, reading interviews, seeing countless photographs, etc. Since that's all we have to go on, I believe my opinion is just as valuable as someone else's and I don't think I should be mocked for it.

I don't know if she is or is not a "brat," but I'm saying that's the image she's projecting. It doesn't really help to try to use someone's own words against them when, in context, the words are a part of an entire argument point which I've already stated is something that has just as much value as anyone else's opinion here.
  #212  
Old 12-31-2005, 04:50 PM
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Annoyed princess?...spoiled brat?...aloof and distant????!!!! I have seen numerous photos, videos and interviws of Mary being very joyous, happy, laughing and thoroughly enjoying her official role as Crown Princess of Denmark! Of course, when she's happy and smiling while carrying out her duties, she's then accused of being an attention seeker! Mary just can't win...she's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. And the definition of "brat" is that of a spoiled, ill-mannered child! A definition that does not apply to Crown Princess Mary at all...if it did, the media in Denmark, Australia and the rest of the world would have eaten her alive! It would have been all over the media!
As for Mary being a patron of Danish fashion...this is one of the most important and growing industries in Denmark that provides a lot of jobs and contributes to the Danish economy...The late Diana, Princess of Wales was famous for her interest in fashion and that contributed to British Fashion designers becoming known all over the world! The Copenhagen International Fashion Fair of which Mary is patron has grown to become one of the largest events in Europe...it is bringing more focus and media attention to Denmark! Even Crown Prince Frederik is a patron of some danish designers of furniture etc and Princess Alexandra also attended Danish fashion events as well!
  #213  
Old 12-31-2005, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiffyBallerina
I never said it was her fault - it's obviously not. However, she's not stupid. She CAN control the press by determining in what events she will and will not participate. CP Mary is no idiot and she knows that fashion gets the most press. She could easily choose to channel that attention into something else. People are not just victims of the press - the people within the household are adept at trying to manipulate\control coverage so it comes out as favorable to the patron.

And yes, I do say that Mary seems a spoiled brat sometimes because she seems aloof and distant whenever she doesn't feel like being bothered. The defense that she's a person too doesn't count for much these days because she knew what she was getting into with all its responsibilities, and I find it repulsive to pity a person who has made a choice and then seems upset when it isn't exactly what she wants all the time. She has more than anyone else can dare to dream about, so the smiles for the press, even if she's not in the mood, are the least she can do. Besides, the other CPs of Europe are under just as much pressure as CP Mary, and I don't get the annoyed princess act from any of them. I'm not even a fan of all European CPs, but they at least put on a good act. CP Mary's attitude is a sense I get from watching videos, reading interviews, seeing countless photographs, etc. Since that's all we have to go on, I believe my opinion is just as valuable as someone else's and I don't think I should be mocked for it.

I don't know if she is or is not a "brat," but I'm saying that's the image she's projecting. It doesn't really help to try to use someone's own words against them when, in context, the words are a part of an entire argument point which I've already stated is something that has just as much value as anyone else's opinion here.
Spiffy Ballerina, thank you! you've articulated it perfectly!
  #214  
Old 12-31-2005, 05:31 PM
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What Mary truly is or isn't, is something we will never know. MII, you say youv'e met her, she might be so capable of putting a good face in public, and you won't know the difference. The rest is left to our speculations. From what I've read,and spoke to people worldwide, is that people doubt the "by chance" meeting, or that she didn't know who he was, and her persistence in pursuing her goal. Fine most of us would try to catch a CP wouldn't we? But in what way?! Some people, (and I'm not saying Mary is) are so manipulative and ambitious that they get caught up in the act, untill it becomes part of themselves!

Again, from what I can see Mary and Fred are truly happy, but the whole "being perfect" princess in itself shows that something is wrong. Someone who is comfortable with him/herself will not fear so much to make a minor mistake or be natural (take Camilla, MMarit, even Maxima). The last sentence is my opinion and I am entitled to make it!
  #215  
Old 12-31-2005, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auntie
MII, you say youv'e met her, she might be so capable of putting a good face in public, and you won't know the difference
Indeed, I have Auntie.

And she is not a person of insincerity.

"MII"
  #216  
Old 12-31-2005, 05:47 PM
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Auntie...who are these people you have spoken to worldwide? Persons who post on other internet message boards perhaps? Mary herself said that in the first few minutes after meeting the crown prince...she did not know who he was at that time! Later in the same evening, she was told who he was! There is no secret to how Mary and Frederik met, there are numerous books and articles out there...even in the unauthorized biography on Mary recently written by Emma Tom, an account was given of how Mary and Fred met...and even Emma Tom criticized the posters on these internet message boards who have taken Mary bashing to a fine art, as being "fustrated and unimaginative fiction writers". Criticism of Mary is expected, she and no-one else is perfect and neither does Mary pretend to be perfect, but at least let the criticism and judgement be constructive and based on facts...not fiction and personal opinions that have no basis in fact! As far as comparing Mary to Camilla...a woman who was an adulterer and a married man's mistress for years...considering that Camilla is now Duchess of Cornwall and future Queen, I would think that Camilla is the more manipulative and ambitious!
  #217  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gattica28
Auntie...who are these people you have spoken to worldwide? Persons who post on other internet message boards perhaps?
Actually, surprisingly, I do travel around and have spoken to a number of people world wide.
Quote:
Mary herself said that in the first few minutes after meeting the crown prince...she did not know who he was at that time!
Yes she would say that wouldn't she? she wouldn't say, " it was rumoured that a group of European royals would be at the bar,so I thought I'd try my luck"
Quote:
As far as comparing Mary to Camilla...a woman who was an adulterer and a married man's mistress for years...considering that Camilla is now Duchess of Cornwall and future Queen, I would think that Camilla is the more manipulative and ambitious!
I don't compare Camilla in anyway to CP Mary, except in the way that she and other royal ladies, who married into the job, seem more real, not trying to overdo it and more warm and natural, whilst maintaining grace and charm.
I am very neutrual regarding Camilla, but look at the GR8 job she has done!
  #218  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margrethe II
Indeed, I have Auntie.

And she is not a person of insincerity.

"MII"
well of course she was sincerely happy when she met you. she was taking a taxpayer funded victory tour of her homeland. anyone would be happy under those circumstances.
  #219  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:10 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margrethe II
Indeed, I have Auntie.

And she is not a person of insincerity.

"MII"
Margrethe II, I second that. :)

I also met Mary and Frederik in person at the Opera House in Syndey. I was greatly impressed by Mary's warmth, serenity and sincerity.

Mary is so nice and sincere towards people. She took time to greet everyone coming to see her at the Opera House. She is very patient, warm, natural and considerate. I really like her and Frederik very much! :p

Amen
  #220  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auntie
Actually, surprisingly, I do travel around and have spoken to a number of people world wide.

Yes she would say that wouldn't she? she wouldn't say, " it was rumoured that a group of European royals would be at the bar,so I thought I'd try my luck"

I don't compare Camilla in anyway to CP Mary, except in the way that she and other royal ladies, who married into the job, seem more real, not trying to overdo it and more warm and natural, whilst maintaining grace and charm.
I am very neutrual regarding Camilla, but look at the GR8 job she has done!
So you've spoken to people worldwide...were they at the Slipp Inn on the the night Fred and Mary met or do they know them personally? The girl who arranged that night was a friend of Mary's flat mate who invited her as well...refer to Emma Tom's unathorized biography or the other books about Mary out there about what happen that night! And trying to do the best job that you can in a position that you were not born into is no crime...At least she did not commit adultery and was someone's mistress to get the job! Mary is the patron of 17 organizations, has learnt one of the toughest languages on the planet, produced a son and heir and has become one of the most loved members of the DRF! Mary has done fantastic in her 17 month role as Crown Princess!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyemma
well of course she was sincerely happy when she met you. she was taking a taxpayer funded victory tour of her homeland. anyone would be happy under those circumstances.
Mary and Frederik were invited to Australia...And all offical state visitors to Australia and any other country for that matter are treated the same way...its called international diplomacy and improving relations between countries! Prince Charles also toured Australia and more tax money was spent on his visit! Like it or not, Mary is Crown Princess of Denmark and one of her roles is to visit other countries and improve the cultural and international relations between Denmark and the countries she visits!
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