Countess Alexandra and Martin Jørgensen, Current Events Part 3: Dec 2009-Sept 2015


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Rocketmom said:
Forgive me but I know very little about the significance of royal titles. Does an income come with them? Political power or a position in Parliament? If not, why are people so concerned about retaining a title after a divorce. Alexandra became a countess. Diana was still princess of Wales but not her royal highness. I remember people were very concerned that they kept a title.
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In DK there is no power, no priviledges, no income, no political seat from being made a count/countess. - Just the title.

Alexandra was not entitled to a title after the divorce. It was QMII who decided to give her a title as a curtesy but also (and much more importantly) because she would raise two princes most of the time. Back then they were number 3 and 4 in line for the throne as it wasn't known whether M&F would have children, so it's natural that the mother of a potential future king should have a title.
Alexandra was also granted an apanage, which is really state-child-alimony ensuring that the princes would have a living standard suitable of their status.

The title is personal, meaning that any children she should have with or adopt together with Martin Jørgensen will not inherit it.
Nikolai and Felix are already Counts of Montpezat through their grandfather and father.
 
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Rocketmom said:
Forgive me but I know very little about the significance of royal titles. Does an income come with them? Political power or a position in Parliament? If not, why are people so concerned about retaining a title after a divorce. Alexandra became a countess. Diana was still princess of Wales but not her royal highness. I remember people were very concerned that they kept a title.
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In the case of Diana she lost her title because she divorced her husband and her title only ever came from her marriage so when she divorced it was natiral she would lose them. Bear in mind that really she was not Princes Diana,but HRH The Princess Charles, she was not a princess in her own right. However to the general public it was considered mean spirited that the mother of a future king should be given no title of her own.
I wonder when Queen M considered this negative press when she decided what would happen to Alexandra on her divorce. I think she recognised that after being married to a Prince for so long and having twochildren with him it would be unusal and possibly mean spiritied for Alexandra to become an untitled commonor again after her divorce.
Personally I think the DRF did really well in this, it seemed to leave everyone happy and was a much much better way of doing thigs than the BRF.
 
tommy100 said:
In the case of Diana she lost her title because she divorced her husband and her title only ever came from her marriage so when she divorced it was natiral she would lose them. Bear in mind that really she was not Princes Diana,but HRH The Princess Charles, she was not a princess in her own right. However to the general public it was considered mean spirited that the mother of a future king should be given no title of her own.
I wonder when Queen M considered this negative press when she decided what would happen to Alexandra on her divorce. I think she recognised that after being married to a Prince for so long and having twochildren with him it would be unusal and possibly mean spiritied for Alexandra to become an untitled commonor again after her divorce.
Personally I think the DRF did really well in this, it seemed to leave everyone happy and was a much much better way of doing thigs than the BRF.
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Could not agree more, especially as it "hurts no-one" to grant her a title...
BYe Bine
 
tommy100 said:
Personally I think the DRF did really well in this, it seemed to leave everyone happy and was a much much better way of doing thigs than the BRF.
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I guess the DRF had the benefit of watching the BRF's experience of dealing with a divorced Princess and learnt from it.
 
Muhler said:
In DK there is no power, no priviledges, no income, no political seat from being made a count/countess. - Just the title.

Alexandra was not entitled to a title after the divorce. It was QMII who decided to give her a title as a curtesy but also (and much more importantly) because she would raise two princes most of the time. Back then they were number 3 and 4 in line for the throne as it wasn't known whether M&F would have children, so it's natural that the mother of a potential future king should have a title.
Alexandra was also granted an apanage, which is really state-child-alimony ensuring that the princes would have a living standard suitable of their status.

The title is personal, meaning that any children she should have with or adopt together with Martin Jørgensen will not inherit it.
Nikolai and Felix are already Counts of Montpezat through their grandfather and father.
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The young princes Nikolai and Felix are also titled "HRH Prince..."

The titled aristocracy in Denmark is certainly not without power or influence. They are very much part of the moneyed Denmark and as such wield a considerable influence on business and cultural life. To think a title is just a title and no more is perhaps a little naïve.
 
grevinnan said:
The young princes Nikolai and Felix are also titled "HRH Prince..."

The titled aristocracy in Denmark is certainly not without power or influence. They are very much part of the moneyed Denmark and as such wield a considerable influence on business and cultural life. To think a title is just a title and no more is perhaps a little naïve.
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Nikolai and Felix, as well as young Henrik and Athena, have the titles HH- His/Her Highness (Hans/Hendes Højhed).
 
I think Joachim's kids are HH, not HRH, but I have been known to be wrong.
 
grevinnan said:
The young princes Nikolai and Felix are also titled "HRH Prince..."

The titled aristocracy in Denmark is certainly not without power or influence. They are very much part of the moneyed Denmark and as such wield a considerable influence on business and cultural life. To think a title is just a title and no more is perhaps a little naïve.
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That's the persons who hold the noble titles you refer to.
The titles themselves are empty.

The privileges of the nobillity have been abolished by law many years ago and there are quite a number of nobles who have very ordinary jobs.
Others do indeed hold important positions and own estates.
 
(...)

Summary of article in Billed Bladet #35, 2013.
Written by Liz Rørsig & Hanne Rask.

Nikolai is in Scotland these days with his class and this is also where he is celebrating his birthday.
However on Friday evening, before he left on Sunday, the family went to the circus. The boys each took a friend and Felix' look somewhat female to me.

On Sunday it was time for the Walkathon. The route they opted for was a mere six kilomtres and the only one who seemed - and sounded - troubled by the excersize was the dog, Lily, who was huffing and panting. Her legs being considerably shorter than her humans.
Lily was wearing a diamond collar.

We also learn that Felix has taken up boxing, while Nikolai is going to parkour, so they have a couple of fit boys on their hands.

Nikolai's birthday will be celebrated with the family when he returns from Scotland.
 
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Two very interesting articles from BT on the financial situation of Countess Alexandra: Her er Alexandras og Martins op- og nedture i forretningslivet - Royale | www.bt.dk

Grevinde Alexandras mand: Derfor har vi lånt en formue - Royale | www.bt.dk

Basically Alexandra has bought money with security in her house, to what I believe is the full extent.
Three loans altogether and the money have been used to buy two luxury villas in Turkey, of which one has been put up for sale, apparently when the price is right.
So that's basically an investment and the loans are tax deductable.

- The impression I get over the years and from reading various articles is that Alexandra's economy is fine, she invests and use the tax laws to the fullest. Apart from that she probably has additional funds and investments put aside. I'm not concerned about her. Not least because she recieve a generous apanage each year to the upkeep of her sons.
Martin Jørgensen is another matter. He has invested and been involved in a number of companies and projects and currently he is running an advertizing business with his brother.
Some of the businesses are doing well, others less so, two have gone backrupt. It is my impression that he is more of a risk taker (or perhaps less competent) than Alexandra. I also believe he has and had fewers means to invest with from the beginning.

Alexandra has covered herself: Ved skilsmisse: Martin får ikke en krone - Royale | www.bt.dk
In the case of a divorce Martin won't get anything.

It is absolutely certain that this will be written about over the next few days and also distorted. Alexandra is in for some bad publicity.

Anyway, it's getting late and I'm slightly tipsy from a dinner today, so I'll leave it to others to explain more about these articles.
 
So the gist of the articles is that Martin has made some bad business decisions?

Alexandra has always seemed more intelligent than Martin to me, (also, frankly, more intelligent than Joachim, too).
 
Well, predictably there has been a good deal of articles about Alexandra's economy and wisely she has kept her mouth shut.

Very shortly, and mind you this is the way I interprete the whole thing.

Alexandra knows about economy and investments, that was after all her job before she became a member of the DRF, as such, when she is making investments she knows what she is doing.
Martin Jørgensen... less so. But he appears to keep his involvements on an investors level, which means a bancrupcy means a lot of money lost but not a debt and creditors on his back.
As we all know, investing is basically an advanced form of gambling. You risk loosing.

Alexandra, seems in my eyes to be more cautious and going for the longterm gain. That means stocks and property.
Raising the funds with security in her house can be more advantageus that getting a regular loan or sell stocks, and there is always the question of tax deductions. As far as I have learned Alexandra has for years been very good at using the opportunities for tax deductions available to her. - Some, especially with an economy similar to hers, would think her a fool if she didn't.

The problem for Alexandra is that he is still not a normal person and that she does get an apanage each year - even if it is to go to the upkeep of her sons (and eventually inheritance as well).
Many among the general public don't understand why she should keep recieving a taxpayer financed apanage when she is "in deep debt", which I believe is far from true. But this is a dent in her public image.
And she won't get much sympathy from me on that.
Alexandra has always been aware of her image and to use the house she got for free as part of her investments may be sound economics but poor pr.

The Villemann has been out again, of course... As usual she is talking rubbish or pretending not to understand the issue (which would be downright hypocritical of her, but that's another matter).
She can talk conspiracy theories from now until the moon turns into a Swiss cheese. This issue is about money and tax evasion.
 
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But doesn't Countess Alexandra loose a significant portion of her state apanage via significant taxes? Isn't this why she had to supplement her reduced income with a position on the board of a pharmaceutical company?

As for her public profile...is that such a concern now with Crown Princess Mary and Princess Marie now very active young female members of the DRF? Countess Alexandra's public profile will only continue to diminish as the years go by.

And why would Martin open his mouth on the loans she took out on their home? Seems indiscreet to me.

I can't remember...is Alexandra's apanage for life?
 
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Terri Terri said:
But doesn't Countess Alexandra loose a significant portion of her state apanage via significant taxes? Isn't this why she had to supplement her reduced income with a position on the board of a pharmaceutical company?
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Yes, she pays taxes, however as the DRF will most likely also end up paying taxes of their apanage (which would be pretty silly IMO as the apanage would have to be raised proportionally anyway) it's not an argument that will hold in the long run.
As for her place on a board, that is IMO sugaring on the cake. A woman in her position and with her qualifications ought to be able to get a seat on other boards as well.
Apart from that she started her new life with a house bought for her, an apanage, and she kept her personal fortune, plus a considerable sum from Joachim. In all a pretty good settlement that should keep her floating financially


Terri Terri said:
As for her public profile...is that such a concern now with Crown Princess Mary and Princess Marie now very active young female members of the DRF? Countess Alexandra's public profile will only continue to diminish as the years go by.
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It is not a concern to me as she, as you point out, is being sidelined more on more in the public eye.
It might be a concern to her, as she has always been very aware of her public image. That fact that this thread is well read is a testement to that and her efforts in that regards.
It may also influence people's view on the divorce. To this day people's sympathy is still moderately favoured towards her, even though Joachim has gained more sympathy in recent years.
In other words: she risk being labbled a golddigger.

Terri Terri said:
And why would Martin open his mouth on the loans she took out on their home? Seems indiscreet to me.
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It sure is, but as Camelot23ca pointed out Alexandra seems to have more between her ears than Martin.

Follow up.

Billed Bladet #17, 2014, has a brief article about the whole story.

In 2012 They bought a house in Turkey near Alanya, for 4.800.000 DKK, before it was completed. (An incomplete house means reduced taxes).
in 2009 they bought their first house in Alanya for 1.500.000 DKK. That house has now been up for sale for two years for 2.400.000 DKK. In the meantime they rent out the house.

To fund these purchases they took a couple of loans in Alexandra's house. At present the loans in her house in Copenhagen amounts to a little more than 7.000.000 DKK.

Martin Jørgensen is quoted for saying: "It's correct that there is a loan in the house in order to finance the summer house, but there is no news in that. We have just recently amalgamated some loans.
Until the house is sold, we rent it out and that works fine".

I'll later post a picture of their new 300 square meter, three storey summer house.
 
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Alexandra fairly often gives interviews and this time it's to the serious paper, Berlingske Tidende:

Alexandra om dronning Margrethe: Vi er stadig tætte - Royale | www.bt.dk

She talks about her first time in DK and about her relationship with Joachim and QMII.

"I came from all I knew to what I didn't know. Everything changed in my life. I got married, I got a new family, I cane to a new cuóuntry, I had to learn a new language and get to know new sourroundings, form new friendships...where shall I stop? Everything was new.

Yes, it was chaotic. It were huge changes and it all resulted in a massive slipped disk".
Which put her out of action for nine months, during which there were periods when couldn't even sit up on a chair.
She believes it was a warning cry from her body to slow down.
"Without me knowing it, the body said: I can't take any more, now we have to park things and take a break".

"I'm still extremely fond of my ex-in-laws, who welcomed med to Denmark and to this day I still have a good relationship with them all. I'm really happy and greateful for that.
My own family is close, but I don't have them in Denmark and I often miss my sisters and my mother.
Then it's nice to have my ex-husband's family close by. I also have an incredible good relationship with him. I hear many people say: How good for the children that you are sone fine with each other. Ja, that is of course good for the children, but it's also good for me and it's good for him".
 
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The boys look so dapper – the same can't quite be said for Joachim and Marie. Were they rocking a safari theme, or?
 
polyesco said:
Some pictures from Alexanadra's 50th birthday.
Joachim and Marie attended as well. and Nikolai and Felix too
Prince Joachim parties with his ex-wife | Royalista
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Thanks, Polyesco. :flowers:

I don't think Marie needs further comments, she is... our Marie. Voila: http://royalista.com/wp-content/cache/images/resize/20093_full_20140706154910_autox500@1.5x.jpg

As for Joachim, I'm in awe: http://royalista.com/wp-content/cache/images/resize/20098_full_20140706155054_autox500@1.5x.jpg
Obviously the dress code must have been: outlandish.
However a gentleman cannot dress inappropriately, it is simply not possible! And as we all know, Joachim is a perfect gentleman, ergo his whole attire is classic example of elegant tastelessness. :notworthy::cool:
 
Is Joachim wearing a camoflage print tuxedo jacket? :ohmy: Oh my goodness. He has obviously inherited his father's flair for fashion. Makes Frederik's red pants look tame by comparison!
 
I don't think Martin was indiscreet talking about the loans.

There had been some article about the house in Turkey and the economy.

Martin responded to these articles and told about the loan in the house in Denmark. And as everyone can see loans on property, Martin didn't reveal anything.

Everyone can par example see which loans I have taken in my property. All danes have these loans when they buy real estate, except people winning the lottery etc.

Prins Joachim fester med sin ekskone | Royalista

A wonderfull looking dress even though the most low cut i have seen
 
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Terri Terri said:
What are the opinions of the Danes on this board to this article about public opinion changing on Countess Alexandra continuing to receive money from the state?
Danskerne i chokmåling: Grevinde Alexandra må forsørge sig selv - Royale | www.bt.dk
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It's only to be expected as Alexandra slowly fades away from the public eye and her children grows older.

Personally I agree wholeheartedly with the politician Søren Espersen, who has said a firm no to reconsidering Alexandra's apange, on the basis that the DRF is not a normal family and that her children should grow up in a lifestyle that befits their status. In other words we shouldn't be measely.
Considering the party Søren Espersen represents and himself being a member of the Presidium of the Parliament, that will be the policy of the next government as well.
BTW it was Søren Espersen who a couple of years back in no uncertain terms told PH to forget all about his dreams of ever becoming king. It was remarkable in the sense that it was the first time an influential politician dressed down a member of the DRF in public and basically told PH to "shut up".
Søren Espersen: Derfor skal Alexandra beholde pengene - Danmark | www.bt.dk
 
Thanks Muhler for your response. This story made the bbc news!!!
BBC News - Denmark: Should former princess pay her own way?

But the question I have though...will this become a problem in the future?...despite the opinion of Søren Espersen? Countess Alexandra's appanage is for life...so she will continue to get money from the Danish state for far longer than she was a member of the royal family. It would have been different if she was a widow...but she made the decision to leave the royal family. Nikolai and Felix are now 7th and 8th in line to the throne and will not play much of an official role in the future DRF...if any.

it will be interesting to see what happens on this issue in the future.
 
Oh yes, it will be a problem in the future.

This question will pop up again and even though I personally think it's peanuts comparing to so many other things there is some justification to the issue: Why keep paying for allowance for a divorcee, who has remarried and moved on? Not least since the future of Nikolai and Felix should be financially secure after Joachim selling Schackenborg and since Countess Alexandra herself seems pretty well off herself.

The gracious thing and PR-wise wisest thing would be for Alexandra to request not to continue recieving her apanage once Felix has turned eighteen.
 
I wonder if part of the reason that Alexandra received an appanage was because Prince Joachim could not afford to give her as much cash money in the divorce settlement at the time? I remember he had to sell a property near Shackenborg to help fund the payment of her villa.
 
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