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  #21  
Old 03-02-2006, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
I forgot the Wessex title.
For the Prussian my idea is it would be more appropiate as Prince of Germany since that was their highest ranking and also on an established (new) nation.
They were never 'Princes of Germany'; The Kaiser was 'German Emperor [Deutscher Kaiser] and King of Prussia' and the Crown Prince was 'Crown Prince of the German Empire and of Prussia'. Other members of that branch of the Hohenzollerns were Princes or Princesses of Prussia.
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2006, 05:44 PM
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That was a 'brand name' opportunity the Prussians let go away without using it.
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  #23  
Old 03-02-2006, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Toledo
That was a 'brand name' opportunity the Prussians let go away without using it.
I doubt if members of the other German Reigning Houses would have been enthusiastic for all Prussian Hohenzollern Princes to be known as "Prince of Germany"!
Which is probably why in 1871 they kept the German part of the new titles restricted to the Kaiser and Crown Prince, and their wives.
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Old 03-03-2006, 11:17 AM
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Makes sense considering that north and south have a very noticeable religious difference.
Interesting parallel lives: when the kingdoms of Savoy/Sardinia, Castilla and Aragon made a single nation out of an assembly of states they eliminated any other dynastic rivals. Castilla and Aragon assembled Spain in one piece and the dynasty assumed all major regional royal titles. The Savoys put together modern Italy and evicted the mini monarchs out, Machiavelli style, to avoid competition.

But the Prussians did a more Federation approach. They let Kings, Grand Dukes and Princes keep their states and did not downgraded their rank. For example, the German Emperor did not take over titles of King of Bavaria, Saxony etc. Maybe if the new Kaiser had done so in the 19th Century it would have moved them to expand the use the Prince of Germany style to the other relatives.
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  #25  
Old 03-06-2006, 07:52 PM
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Yes, they let them keep their ranks, because everything else might have resulted in a war nobody wanted. The German Empire was created by treaty with a Kaiser (William I) who didn't want to become German Emperor. He wanted to stay King of Prussia, but Bismarck was stronger!
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  #26  
Old 03-30-2006, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by winter
Yes, they let them keep their ranks, because everything else might have resulted in a war nobody wanted. The German Empire was created by treaty with a Kaiser (William I) who didn't want to become German Emperor. He wanted to stay King of Prussia, but Bismarck was stronger!
I doubt it would have resulted in a war, rather the political structure of "Germany" would simply have persisted until the proper compromises were made. Your guess is as good as mine as to how long that would have taken, but in my opinion unification was inevitable and would have occured a few years anyway had it not occured in 1871.
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  #27  
Old 03-30-2006, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Warren
Well, there is no state called 'Prussia' but we're talking titles, not nation-states. Just as 'Wessex' ceased to be an entity at the time of the Norman conquest. Some Luxembourg Princes are Princes of Nassau (and of Bourbon-Parma until 1986); neither state exists today. So what? George Friedrich is 'Prince of Prussia', that's his title. The same goes for the titles of all members of the reigning and Noble families that made up the German and Austrian Empires, and all former reigning royalty.
Someone did apparently float the idea to merge the current states of Brandenburg, Mecklenburg and Berlin to form a new state called Prussia, but the idea didn't go over all that well.
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  #28  
Old 05-10-2006, 03:42 AM
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What are the titles/styles of Prince Georg Friedrich and his sister, Princess Cornelie-Cécile??
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  #29  
Old 05-10-2006, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Robijn
What are the titles/styles of Prince Georg Friedrich and his sister, Princess Cornelie-Cécile??
• HI & RH Georg Friedrich, Prince of Prussia, Head of the Imperial and Royal House of Prussia
plus a whole host of ancestral titles which come with being the Head of the House.

• HRH Princess Cornelie-Cécile, Princess of Prussia
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  #30  
Old 05-10-2006, 07:00 AM
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thank your, wikipedia also said Georg Friedrich had the title Prince of Orange is it true?? (isn't Prince Willem-Alexander the Prince of Orange)
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  #31  
Old 05-10-2006, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Princess Robijn
thank your, wikipedia also said Georg Friedrich had the title Prince of Orange is it true?? (isn't Prince Willem-Alexander the Prince of Orange)
Yes, among his many other titles is that of 'Prince of Orange', along with, for example, Duke of Saxony, Duke of Luneburg, Duke of Holstein and Schleswig, Landgrave of Hesse, Prince of Nassau, Count of Hohenstein.

All of these titles are today also held by others with more legitimate dynastic rights to bear them. They appear in the Prussian titles because of conquest, annexations etc, many "acquired" as a result of the Austro-Prussian War of 1866, when some German states paid a price for siding with Austria. This was a time when Bismarck was making his move for a German State under the headship of the Prussian Kingdom.
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  #32  
Old 05-10-2006, 07:24 AM
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thank you warren.. :) :)
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  #33  
Old 05-11-2006, 04:29 AM
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Titles

Prince George Friedrich's full titles...

Prince of Prussia, Head of the Imperial and Royal House of Prussia, Prince of Hohenzollern,
Margrave of Brandenburg, Burggrave of Nuremburg, Count of Hohenzollern, Premier Duke and Sovereign of Silesia and of the County of Glatz,
Grand Duke of the Lower Rhine and of Posen,
Duke of Saxony, of Westphalia and Engern, of Pomerania, Luneburg, Holstein and Schleswig, Magdeburg, Bremen, Geldern, Kleve, Julich and Berg, also of the Wends and the Kassubes, of Krossen, Lauenburg and Mecklenburg,
Landgrave of Hesse and Thuringia, Margrave of Upper and Lower Lusatia,
Prince of Orange, Prince of Rugen, of East Friesland, of Paderborn and Pyrmont, of Halberstadt, Munster, Minden, Osnabruck, Hildesheim, Verden, Kammin, Fulda, Nassau and Mors,
Princely Count of Henneberg, Count of the Mark and of Ravensberg, Hohenstein, Tecklenburg and Lingen, Mansfeld, Sigmaringen and Veringen,
Lord of Frankfurt.
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  #34  
Old 05-11-2006, 05:29 AM
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thank you :)
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  #35  
Old 05-11-2006, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Yes, among his many other titles is that of 'Prince of Orange', along with, for example, Duke of Saxony, Duke of Luneburg, Duke of Holstein and Schleswig, Landgrave of Hesse, Prince of Nassau, Count of Hohenstein.

All of these titles are today also held by others with more legitimate dynastic rights to bear them. They appear in the Prussian titles because of conquest, annexations etc, many "acquired" as a result of the Austro-Prussian War of 1866, when some German states paid a price for siding with Austria. This was a time when Bismarck was making his move for a German State under the headship of the Prussian Kingdom.
Well, in terms of dynastic inheritance the Prussians have the better claim to the title of Orange as they inherited it by blood (eventhough through the maternal line). But as the political power in the Netherlands made it important for Prussia to acknowledge the claim of the Dutch heir, they signed a treaty that gave both pretendants the right to use the title - which had been based anyway on a souverainity long lost to France.

So both the Prussian and the Dutch "Prince of Orange" are rightfully using this title, even though it had gained much more prestige in the Netherlands over the years as title of the heir apparent.
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  #36  
Old 02-23-2007, 08:01 PM
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I want to know about the prince George Friedrich, I belive that he is now the crown prince. Is true is? or who is the heir of the throne?
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  #37  
Old 02-24-2007, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marian
I want to know about the prince George Friedrich, I belive that he is now the crown prince. Is true is? or who is the heir of the throne?
Georg Friedrich, Prince of Prussia, Head of the Imperial and Royal House of Prussia, is discussed throughout this thread, starting with the very first post on page 1.
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  #38  
Old 03-09-2007, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Warren
Georg Friedrich, Prince of Prussia, Head of the Imperial and Royal House of Prussia, is discussed throughout this thread, starting with the very first post on page 1.
What Warren? You don't believe that guy from San Diego is the *real* head of the imperial Prussian house?! I just saw this guy's rant on another board and I'll tell you - he's a piece of work. What a trip! I guess he's harmless enough but he's definitely making a stupid @$$ out of himself You can see King Fernidad in action here: (taken from alt.talk.royalty)

Not only is Prince Georg Friedrich former Head of the Prussian Royal
Family illigitimate he's only Prussian on the female side. Lets compare
Geneaologys and see how fluid it's should look. Or, was The Country of
Prussia being reserved the whole time for Prince Fernidad Frederick? I
am asking for an Aristocratic opinion in why would Prince Georg
Friedrich not even consisder assuming the title of King of Prussia when
his father died in 1994, It's been 13 years now. Well, as the true King
of the Prussian Royal Family I have assumed King of Prussia but I am
currently living in San Diego. Would this pose a problem? Best Wishes,
-King Fernidad Frederick of Prussia
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  #39  
Old 06-19-2008, 12:57 PM
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Question

Hello

A question that has had me thinking recently which came first "Heil dir im Siegerkranz" or "God Save the Queen". I heard Heil dir im Siegerkranz and could not believe how similar it is if not the same to God save the Queen.

Any help you could give would be great.

Thanks

Sir knight
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  #40  
Old 07-20-2011, 10:07 AM
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Although some of the questions are quite old, they may be still of interest. Some of the things mentioned before are quite not acurate, so I may bring some light into the darkness:

But to explain these issues I have to go slightly backwards in history.
First of all there no Imperial and Royal House of Prussia.
Before the Unification of Germany 1871 and after the "Reichsdeputationshauptschluß" (1803 - in short: end of the HRE 1806) on the territory of the former HRE there did exist several kingdoms (Prussia, Saxony, Bavaria, Württemberg), several Grand Duchies, several Duchies, several Principalities and other Realms and free States (even republics as Hamburg, Bremen...) and one Empire (Austria - normally a german Archduchy with realms out of the former HRE - Franz II. of Austria, who was Kaiser of the HRE was "granted" the Titel Kaiser of Austria in return for "letting the HRE go".
To cut a long story short the Prussian-Austrian war of 1866 with Prussias victory over Austria let to the leadership of Prussia among the German states.
In the war against France 1870-71 all German states (except Austria) fought against France.
In 1871 when the German Empire was founded it was litterally only an enlargement of the North German Federation under the chairmanship of Prussia.
The German Empire formed a Federation of souvereign states. To say it clearly: There was NO prince ranking higher than others. The chairman of the presidium of the German Empire was named German Kaiser and was hereditary in the line of the Kings of Prussia. By this the German Kaiser was "primus inter pares" (first among equals). So the Royal House of Prussia did not became the Imperial House of Germany, which would have ment that the other kings and princes would be "down ranked". There would have been no majority among the German Princes to form a Kaiser von (of) Germany.
So You can speak of the title of German Kaiser just as an official title of the head of state. There was only one other official title used by a Prussian Prince and this was the title of the Kronprinz des Deutschen Reiches (Crown Prince of the German Empire) which was used by the Prussian Crown Prince. All other Sons of the King of Prussia (and German Kaiser) stayed Prince of Prussia. So there never had been an "Imperial House" of Prussia.
This leads us to a technically difficult question, because the last Prince of Prussia born in the time of the German Empire to become heir apparent (although at that time the German Empire did not exist anymore) and to be called "HIRH" was Prince Louis Ferdinand, the grandfather of the now head of the House of Prussia Prince Georg Friedrich.
Officially there do not exist any "Highnesses" in Germany anymore because all nobility and titles were abolished in 1919.
So if you are a legitimist - accepting that by being head of the House of Prussia and heir apparent, Prince Georg Friedrich would be not only King of Prussia but also German Kaiser - the title HI & RH Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia would be correct (if not to call him HM - there was no HI&RM but always HM the German Kaiser and King of Prussia).
His siblings and the siblings of his late father are all Prince or Princess of Prussia (nowadays under republican rule Prinz von Preussen and Prinzessin von Preussen is the family name)

But as I have pointed out (hopefully) You will understand that there is no highest title in Germany where a possible monarch could return to. If monarchy in Germany should ever be restored you
- either would have to put all former souvereign princes back in their rights who then would have to debate the question who should be the new "primus inter pares" (leading to even more questions) or
- could create a new Monarchy without any traditions to history (leading to even much more questions)

So You see Monarchy and Nobility in Germany is a very diverse and difficult issue.

Hoped to have been helpful


Alex R.
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