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  #201  
Old 01-03-2011, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearghas View Post
So you are saying that aristocratioc women aren't also looking for love? That they would be happy to marry a Prince they didn't love simply because he is a Prince? The evidence of Princess who marry doesn't seem to agree with this. I think that the 'problem'os that he hasn't found someone he loves who loves him and is also aristocratic.
In the ned, as I don't know the guy and I suspect, no one here does, we will bever know.
I think everyone is looking for love, aristocratic or otherwise. However, we can't be so naive as to assume there aren't women who would marry him just because he is a prince - middle class or an aristocratic woman who wants to move up the ladder. And yes, even though I don't know him, I'm sure he wants to spend his life with the person he loves and she that returns it! What I am saying is that whilst it would be great for her to be an aristo, I don't think he will necessarily forgo any woman she might be, noble or not. I feel as if he's leaving himself open to the opportunities God will give him.
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  #202  
Old 01-04-2011, 01:37 AM
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Yes I suppose there will always be women who marry for class, wealth or power. Otherwise ugly ols men who are rich woulsn't get trophy wives. The thing is that Proncess already have the title so unless they want to be Queen they don't need to marry a Prince.
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  #203  
Old 01-09-2011, 05:33 PM
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Georg Friedrich is not as rich as you think. He lost a huge amount of money in the lawsuits against his two uncles. Although the courts finally ruled in his favor -- or rather acknowledging the rights of people to designate who gets what andy why -- he lost a lot of money. All of Louis Ferdinand's surviving children received a percentage of the estate as required by German law. From what I understand Christian Sigismund was one of the executors of Louis Ferdinand's estate - but Louis Ferdinand was a smart man -and also included at least one of Donata's brothers as an executor as well. Louis Ferdinand had provided homes for his kids - none of who worked a day in their lives, and was providing appanages to his adult children as well. Georg stopped paying the appanages to Friedrich Wilhelm and Michael after they started all the problems .. and Friedrich Wilhelm told his father that he was going to challenge the will, even though he and his brother had lost their rights in the mid-1960s after their first marriages to commoners.
George continued to pay the appanages to his surviving aunts and Onkel Christian Sigismund who was "head" of the family until GF reached the age of 30, and it was at this time that GF gained his full inheritance, or what was left of it. Wummehof was not the only house he put up for sale. He could not afford to maintain all these properties - and Christian Sigismund was living in the house and not contributing to the maintenance or anything else.
Georg Friedrich is trying to rebuild the family estate --- a good portion was already lost after 1945 .. and selling property is something he has had to do --Christian Sigismund has known for a long time that Wummehof was going to be sold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulce Elena View Post
Hello all, I've been on hiatus!

At any rate, I highly doubt Prinz Christian is being kicked out. I'm sure he's known for awhile - homes of this size take some time to sell, even if it is owned by famous people. It's really a bloody shame, the house is beautiful. I've never been in it, but I used to live about 5 minutes away by car in the neighboring section of Oberneuland. My friend sold her gorgeous house three doors down. If you know the area, you would be sad for that alone forgetting the property. But it's a really massive piece of land extending well into the back, and it's difficult to discern that from the street facade.

I don't believe that this is an easy decision for any involved, His Royal Highness least of all. Indeed, GF spent his childhood there but so did almost all his immediate family! Many memories are being sold along with bricks and mortar.... As for what he's doing -- possibly the same. von Preussen's his name and royaling is his game. I haven't heard any news that he's keeping a 9 to 5, but predominantly staying involved in family charities and the whatnot. And no girlfriends either, so you can breathe that sigh of relief. I am not going to be as naive to say he's not been seeing anyone - he's young AND he's a Gemini ^_^ And if you buy into any of those ridiculous "gay" rumours, then I have a bridge to sell you!!

Whether these relationships have been serious or not is the sticking point. At any rate, despite its implications, I believe GF will marry the woman most suited to the rank even if she is *not* royal. Oh, yes, he's paid the lip service that she'll probably be from the geborene, but in reality, well...that could be something mightily different. And whilst the proverbial s**t will more than likely hit the fan for any decision along those lines, it seems that he, having made the decision to marry non-royal, would stick to his guns. After all, technically speaking, he's not part of the generation that was expected to marry along their own rank and can do as he pleases. Yes, marrying a royal or aristocrat makes his life significantly easier, but I think this one is a rogue who just might follow his heart no matter where it leads him.

Lately, I think any discussion on this topic is banal and redundant because you see the self-same uncles who are suing him, chatting him up at events like the hypocrites they quite possibly could be. The family keeps quite mum about the whole situation because really it's no one else's business but theirs. Nonetheless, I feel there are significant factors we are not considering because we aren't part of the drama. And I feel that his not marrying royal won't factor in one iota, because he's unmarried now and they are *still* tilting at windmills for his money and being typically German talking up and down about laws and precedents. If only they had has as much determination to keep their rights in the first place as they had to marry common women!!

Lastly, some extra thoughts...I don't believe that GF is broke. Well, unless 51M Euro is broke (maybe for wealthy people he's slumming it). GF strikes me as a very pragmatic man. Yes, it's sad to sell off property that you've owned for centuries, but really -- why not? The most striking and elegant buildings aren't theirs anymore: Cecilienhof, Sansouci, Charlottenburg...they've been gone for awhile. And while it's very romantic to hold onto these gorgeous properties, I can't believe that it's easy maintaining them! They have to cost a cool 2M Euro annually EACH just to have them looking kempt!!! Forget running them or staffing them. Other than Burg Hohenzollern, which feeds itself with admission fees and tourism, it's a perpetual drain to keep them. You have to consider Preussen isn't a tax earning entity anymore. He's not winning any wars for wealth or territory. It's the 21st century, as dismal as it seems and the romantic era is a bygone conclusion =( So, I'm not shocked or saddened because I believe he understands this and is trying to maintain enough to collect and invest to maintain the House of Preussen as a solvent entity. Also, if it's any consolation, they will not disappear when they're sold! People will still look back for generations and revel in the history of these wonderful places and the name of Preussen will always be on them. And that, I think, is worth more than the money!
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  #204  
Old 01-09-2011, 05:34 PM
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I should add that Wilhelm II's will is specific .. the heir and next heir had to marry equally. Louis Ferdinand was the heir and the next heir became Georg Friedrich after the death of his father. He will have to marry equally.
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  #205  
Old 01-09-2011, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarleneKoenig View Post
I should add that Wilhelm II's will is specific .. the heir and next heir had to marry equally. Louis Ferdinand was the heir and the next heir became Georg Friedrich after the death of his father. He will have to marry equally.
That's right, Das ist richtig. Georg Friedrich has to deal with a hell lot of pressure, he must marry into royalty and isn't he the one who had financial issues or something? Has anyone obtained more info, how deep down that trouble goes?
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  #206  
Old 01-09-2011, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPD1 View Post
That's right, Das ist richtig. Georg Friedrich has to deal with a hell lot of pressure, he must marry into royalty and isn't he the one who had financial issues or something? Has anyone obtained more info, how deep down that trouble goes?
I think this is one of the reasons for not being still married.If he meets a commoner,should he officially ask the permission to marry her?
Or what will happen if he actually decides to marry a commoner?
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  #207  
Old 01-10-2011, 03:30 AM
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I don't think that he would need permission to marry, because he's the Head of the Royal House of Prussia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenora View Post
I think this is one of the reasons for not being still married.If he meets a commoner,should he officially ask the permission to marry her?
Or what will happen if he actually decides to marry a commoner?
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  #208  
Old 01-10-2011, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearghas View Post
Yes I suppose there will always be women who marry for class, wealth or power. Otherwise ugly ols men who are rich woulsn't get trophy wives. The thing is that Proncess already have the title so unless they want to be Queen they don't need to marry a Prince.
A Princess's/ noble women's title is normally in abeyance when she marries a commoner. When she gets divorced, afterwards, she is a princess again.

That's the reason why so many noble/ royal women try to find a noble/ royal husband.
In german times newspaper a countess said once:
"It's worse when you marry a commoner and become a Mrs. Something, because than you're out of the society - the noble circlet so to say.
But the worst thing to do is keeping your maiden noble name in your passport ( possbile solution in german name law) - then you're really (!!! ) OUT !"

That's the way it goes Germany - Princess Margareth ( QEII's sister) for ex. didn't have that problem.
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  #209  
Old 01-10-2011, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I don't think that he would need permission to marry, because he's the Head of the Royal House of Prussia.

It's a hard question indeed.
Georg IS the head and he CAN change the house law.
BUT we all don't exactly know how LONG Wilhelm II rules about marriage affect his descendants.

I give you an example: W II laid the supervision of the prussian heir into the hands of an administrator to make sure his heir is not sold out by any greedy heirs ( who want to have a party at the Cote Azur for ex.).
So at any time ( !!!) the last years Georg and his uncles couldn't do what ever they wanted with their heir - they always has to ask the administrator first !

Selling stuff at Christie's ? Not possible without administrator's permission !!


That's the way it goes.

A German court decided some years ago, that this of course is not right and compatible to nowadays law and said: administratorship ends when the last administrator dies.
But until the man dies, Georg HAS TO LISTEN TO HIM - IT AFFECTS HIM !


So I don't know for how many generations the rule about equal marriage affects WII descendants.
If Georg is unlucky he might even loose his headship although he is the head !!

Strange but true !!


My personal opinion about Prussian marriage laws:

I don't know any solutions, but I marvel at the problem.
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  #210  
Old 01-22-2011, 04:11 PM
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Fiançailles du prince Georg Friedrich de Prusse et de la princesse Sophie d’Isembourg | Noblesse & Royautés

Here is an article about his engagement to Princess Sophie zu Isemburg.

In one of the comments it states that his only sister, Cornelie, is handicapped: anybody knows what ails her?
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  #211  
Old 01-22-2011, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphine View Post
It's a hard question indeed...
You are sort of correct but not completely correct. Wilhelm II's will was written after he had left the throne. The idea was to protect the fortune from the tax man. Many former ruling families, including Leiningen and Hohenzollern (princely) set up family trusts in the 1920s. There are similar examples with Sayn-Wittgenstein and Hannover (Ernst August's son is now running the estates). Wilhelm's will was very specific - the heir and the next heir had to marry equally. The Crown Prince was excluded as he would be largely bypassed for the main inheritance - and before 1945, the family owned a lot of property in the east - and his eldest son Wilhelm's marriage was unequal. Thus the heir to the estate was the second of the Crown Prince's son -Louis Ferdinand. He married equally. The next heir (nach erbe) also had to marry equally in order to inherit. The nach erbe was the young Louis Ferdinand, but he died before his father, so GF became the nach erbe.
All the Kaiser's descendants were parties to the case although the case only affected Louis Ferdinand's children and grandson, who was the primary heir. In the 1960s, the two eldest sons, Friedrich Wilhelm and Michael married commoners and ceased to be dynasts. These marriages ended in divorce and both remarried. Their second marriages were irrelevant because both had already lost their positions. They knew this -- but neither of these men ever worked, ever had a career. Louis Ferdinand provided his sons and daughters with homes and with allowances. When Louis Ferdinand died in 1991, GF became the head of the house. He was a minor at the time. He would not come into his full inheritance until age 30. One of his Castell Rudenhausen uncles and Prince Christian Sigismund were the adminstrators although LF was very smart, and the C-R uncle was the real "Guardian" and Christian Sigismund was the admin on paper. His marriage was equal.
Each of LF's surviving children received a percentage of the estate. None were excluded under German law, but GF was the primary heir. Friedrich Wilhelm and Michael wanted more, and tried to claim that their second marriages were equal. For nearly 30 years they knew they had no claim - but they thought they could do something to get more money. It took several court rulings, but the final decision was in GF's favor. But the court cases cost a lot of money. Unlike other former ruling families, the Prussians don't have any of their palaces in Berlin and Potsdam. Georg Friedrich does not have a family seat. He has had to put up for sale the properties that Louis Ferdinand bought for his kids, where the lived largely rent free. Georg Friedrich cannot afford to maintain such appanages. He was raised by his mother, away from the other Prussians. He's well off, and, in time, one hopes that the estate will again grow.

There are no house laws on marriage. Wilhelm II was a private German citizen when he made his will. No child can be excluded but a person who makes a will, according to final ruling, can put in qualifications. This as the same for the Leiningens and, of course, the late Prince of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berlenburg. Prince Gustav cannot marry Carina Axelsson because of his grandfather's will. If he marries her, he loses every thing.
As for Prince Georg Friedrich - he came into his full inheritance at age 30. For some families, the age is 35 (which is the age set in the trust set up in the 1920s for the princely family of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen.
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  #212  
Old 01-22-2011, 09:08 PM
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Donata suffered a lot of stress during her second pregnancy due to the premature death of her husband. Cornelie Cecile is mentally handicapped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biri View Post
Fiançailles du prince Georg Friedrich de Prusse et de la princesse Sophie d’Isembourg | Noblesse & Royautés

Here is an article about his engagement to Princess Sophie zu Isemburg.

In one of the comments it states that his only sister, Cornelie, is handicapped: anybody knows what ails her?
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  #213  
Old 01-23-2011, 12:24 AM
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Well the marriage problem is solved now
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  #214  
Old 01-23-2011, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarleneKoenig View Post
Donata suffered a lot of stress during her second pregnancy due to the premature death of her husband. Cornelie Cecile is mentally handicapped.
Cerebral palsy? Poor woman!

But can a stress experienced during pregnancy be an explanation to this illness?
Many women, while being pregnant lost their husbands, often in a tragic way, and their posthumous children are completely healthy.
Good example is Ethel Skakel Kennedy; she was three months pregnant when she saw with her own eyes her husband falling from a gunshot - and her daughter Rory is not only completely healthy, but also a very capable and intelligent woman.

In case of Cornelie, it were probably perinatal asphyxia, I suppose.
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  #215  
Old 01-23-2011, 09:45 AM
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I do not believe Cornelie Cecile has cerebal palsy, which is largely a physical. Cornelie-Cecile is mentally handicapped -- the word used to be "retarded," due to the retardation of the brain.
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  #216  
Old 01-28-2011, 06:01 AM
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In one engagement announcement it mentioned that GF was descended from two of Queen Victoria's children. I undestand how he is descended from the Princess Royal, Victoria. But he's also descended from Prince Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh, and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Can anybody help me trace this? I can't figure it out.
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  #217  
Old 01-28-2011, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by RubyPrincess168 View Post
In one engagement announcement it mentioned that GF was descended from two of Queen Victoria's children. I undestand how he is descended from the Princess Royal, Victoria. But he's also descended from Prince Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh, and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Can anybody help me trace this? I can't figure it out.
Prince Alfred
Princess Victoria Melita (married to Grand Kyril of Russia)
Grand DcuhessKira of Russia (married to Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia)
Prince Louis Ferdinand jr.
Prince Georg Friedrich
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  #218  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:35 PM
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Can anyone tell me,does the will stipulate that the Heir should marry a member of just sovereign and mediatized families or just a member of "uradel"?

I am asking this because of Georg Friedrich's uncle Christian Sigismund,.the marriage is considered good enough as he is next in line..He is married to Countess Nina zu Reventlow...

Reventlow family is neither sovereign nor mediatized,but the were reischsgrafen from 18th century and a very old family...
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  #219  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubyPrincess168 View Post
In one engagement announcement it mentioned that GF was descended from two of Queen Victoria's children. I undestand how he is descended from the Princess Royal, Victoria. But he's also descended from Prince Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh, and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Can anybody help me trace this? I can't figure it out.
Georg-Freidrich's paternal grandmother, the former HH Princess Kira of Russia, was the daughter of HRH Princess Victoria Melita of Edinburgh and HIH Grand Duke Cyril Vladimirovich of Russia (de-jure Tsar of All Russias in-exile after the murder of Tsar Nicholas II, the Tsarevitch and Grand Duke Michael in the Revolution).

Kira's maternal grandparents were HRH The Prince Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh, and the former HIH Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna of Russia.
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  #220  
Old 01-29-2011, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
Can anyone tell me,does the will stipulate that the Heir should marry a member of just sovereign and mediatized families or just a member of "uradel"?

I am asking this because of Georg Friedrich's uncle Christian Sigismund,.the marriage is considered good enough as he is next in line..He is married to Countess Nina zu Reventlow...

Reventlow family is neither sovereign nor mediatized,but the were reischsgrafen from 18th century and a very old family...
I believe the Will requires the Head and the heir to marry equally, or lose all succession and inheritance rights.
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