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  #81  
Old 06-28-2011, 12:07 AM
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pretenders

Could some clarifacation be provided as to who the pretenders are?
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  #82  
Old 06-28-2011, 01:48 AM
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Normally the "pretenders" are the Heads of the former ruling families of Germany. The thing is: no one of them is interested. Here are some:

Bavaria: Duke Franz
Prussia: Prince Georg Friedrich
Saxony: The Margrave of Meissen
Wuerttemberg: The Duke of Wuerttemberg
Baden: The Margrave of Baden

etc.
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  #83  
Old 06-28-2011, 05:22 AM
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Given the fractured state of German history, I can be confident in saying that there will be no restoration in Germany..

However if such a thing were to occur, I think the family of German Emperor would have the highest claim to the monarchy..

Kaiser Wilhelm II's heir is Prince Friedrich Wilhelm of Prussia (born 1939). He is the son of Prince Ludwig Ferdinand of Prussia and Grand Duchess Kira Kyrillovna of Russia.

Prince Ludwig Ferdinand became the pretender to the German monarchy after his elder brother, Crown Prince Wilhelm, renounced his succession rights and the rights of his (future) children in 1933.

The Crown Prince's unequal marriage was recognized as dynastic in 1940, but he had two daughters and no male heir, so his claim to the throne would have passed to his younger brother Ludwig anyway.

The current pretender's (Prince Friedrich Wihelm) heir, is his son Prince Philip Kyrill of Prussia (born 1968), who has two sons of his own - Prince Paul Wilhelm of Prussia (born 1995) and Prince Timotheus Friedrich of Prussia (born 2005).
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  #84  
Old 06-28-2011, 07:40 AM
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Actually teh Kaisers heir is Prince Georg Friedrich, Friedrich Wilhelm had to give up his position because of his unequal marriage
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  #85  
Old 06-28-2011, 08:53 AM
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You'll never get Bavarian monarchists to agree to a Prussian as our souverain. According to the current consitution Bavaria could opt out of Germany if the majority wanted it. As Bavaria is the federal state with the greatest payment for Germany and Germany makes the greatest payment to the EU you could say that Bavaria could easily manage without either Germany or the EU. But of course nobody wants that or would risk that! Thus: no restoration in Germany and feinately no Prussian as our king!
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  #86  
Old 06-28-2011, 09:39 AM
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Mein Mann hat immer gesagt dass.. Bayern ist ein Land in einem Land..

Quote:
Originally Posted by fearghas View Post
Actually teh Kaisers heir is Prince Georg Friedrich, Friedrich Wilhelm had to give up his position because of his unequal marriage
Kaiser Wilhelm's heir to the House of Hohenzollern is Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia.. in this you are correct.

However, since we are talking about the restoration of a German monarch, it is unlikely that the rules of the House of Hohenzollern would be followed when deciding whose head to place the crown upon.. there are just too many "house rules" within the German nobility to follow them all..

My post was strictly following the male line descent of the Kaiser.
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  #87  
Old 06-29-2011, 02:35 AM
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Prince GF is the one 'recognised', in so much as they recognise any royal claiments, be the german govy. that is he is the one that the german chancellor deals with when anything to do with the Hohemzollerns.
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  #88  
Old 06-29-2011, 03:20 AM
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*rofl* of course a lot of Germans are big fans of the Royalties around the world - that doesn't mean that we chuse to be a monarchie.

The thought is just tooo funny *rofl* - no way for restauration in the world as we know it. ... but who knows how the world changes .. with upcoming war's everything might change.
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  #89  
Old 06-29-2011, 03:41 AM
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A restauration of the Monarchy in Germany is a Utopia sort of thing,only a few believe or wish for that to happen.A few as in a few 10.000's in a population of over 70 million.That is couleur locale,and nothing more then that.And really,Prince Georg Friedrich has the last say in it,alltho prepared and raised to take the Reigns when asked by the majority.

At present it is nothing more then schwärmerisch dreaming and old sentiments often by people who don't have a clue at all on the workings and the very concept of a Monarchy in this day and age only wishing to restore a simular Monarchy as was the case under willy.

Germans do have a weak spot for Monarchies elsewhere,especially the Dutch is popular,but it doesnt go any further then that at all.
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  #90  
Old 07-21-2011, 08:09 AM
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To my mind the main problem is the media and the „education“ of the German people after world war II.
Monarchy in general and especially the German Empire under Wilhelm II. is still reported in a very biased way. Although I do not know any representative survey this leads to prejudices which are felt to be true knowledge by the majority of the people. Just to name the most popular:
- Monarchy belongs to the past and is anti-democratic
- Royals and members of nobility are useless, rich, not-working people
- Monarchy is too expensive and despotic
- Wilhelm II. started world war I. because he wanted to rule the world
Although nothing is true, these prejudices have been implanted so deeply inside the German brains.
Most people (and also in this forum) do not know the difference between an absolute and a constitutional monarchy and the special form of the latter, the parliamentarian monarchy.
Most people would never stand the working schedule of e.g. HM Queen Elizabeth II. even for one month. Most people cannot imagine that the majority of the German nobility is not unimaginably rich but has to struggle hard to maintain their heritage.
So the idea of monarchy is rejected due to lack of knowledge and pure ignorance, partly by the same people who know the price of any thing but not its value. I think it is also this fact that nobility is rejected because it is the only thing (besides health) that you cannot buy.
And we should remind everyone that nobility and monarchy are no natural allies of today’s political conservatives. Monarchy and nobility do not match with the kind of economic system which rules the world today. And this is a mighty enemy, which owns the media. In their interest Monarchy and nobility is only useful to sell (yellow) press. To deal with the real value of Monarchy is not in their interest, so people are kept dumb.

Alex R.
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  #91  
Old 07-21-2011, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by SchwarzerAdler View Post
And we should remind everyone that nobility and monarchy are no natural allies of today’s political conservatives.
Unfortunately, the nobles involved in politics are often members of conservative or very conservative organizations or parties and there are lot of nobles linked with "the kind of economics system which rule the world today". I don't have too many examples for Deutschland but there are a lot of examples in France.
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  #92  
Old 07-21-2011, 12:57 PM
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Dear Sancia,

undoubtly I have to admit that You are so right. In Germany You can observe the same. I do not know whether they do not look into "how the system works" closely enough, or are to timid to found a new organisation or party (which would be the most bald action due to the attention it would get) or whether those nobles "betray their own" - I fear the most probable answer - as to the most citizens - will be: a lot of them will link theirselfs to parties or organisations where they THINK these would fit their interests.
To my mind social and ecological issues are to a great extent on "nobilities interests" but nobles in politics linking theirselfs with those politics even change their name to to appear noble again.
Unfortunately there is a great ideological barrier in the minds - it prevents most people from thinking, comparing AND acting accordingly.

Regards

Alex R.
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  #93  
Old 07-21-2011, 02:04 PM
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It would be good if the German restoration happen if everything is all ready. And what about the other states; Wurttemberg, Baden, Saxony, Bavaria, etc. should they be restored as well? I think if restore all of them they should form the new government like India in the past but not the same at all. Each state has its own sovereign and the grand head of state is the German Emperor.

But, nevertheless, the Emperor of Germany is only the symbol of the country like Japan which is the unitary parliamentary democracy and constitutional monarchy, also the other sovereign state; Saxony, Baden, Wurttemberg, Hesse, Bavaria, etc.

Just my own opinion if the restoration become...^^
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  #94  
Old 07-21-2011, 09:23 PM
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The main problem in Germany and the rest of Europe is lack of interest. Who would want to get politically active today to change the form the government? And for what? The Brits are born under a monarchy and why change. The Germans live in a republic and why change? People go out and protest for more earthly things, if/when they bother to protest in these very apathetic times.
My guess also is that not a single German prince would want to become the federal head of state.
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  #95  
Old 07-21-2011, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
You'll never get Bavarian monarchists to agree to a Prussian as our souverain...
Totally! A Hohenzollern again? Never
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  #96  
Old 07-22-2011, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Johann Salvator View Post
The main problem in Germany and the rest of Europe is lack of interest. Who would want to get politically active today to change the form the government? And for what? The Brits are born under a monarchy and why change. The Germans live in a republic and why change? People go out and protest for more earthly things, if/when they bother to protest in these very apathetic times.
My guess also is that not a single German prince would want to become the federal head of state.
One should not forget that those monarchies who still exist today have either been developped at times when a monarchy was the form a state simply had (even the rulers/ruleresses of church lands were not only Abbot/Bishop or Abbess but in some cases The Lady Abbess or The Lord Bishop who ruled their lands like a souverain, only responsible to the emperor. Or they were created to protect a country at a time when a monarchy with a reigning House menat that the country was safe from foreign powers: eg. The Habsburgian (first Spanish, then Austrian) Low Countries in 1815 became a kingdom of its own, Belgium comes to mind and in the 1900s Spain was created a kingdom in order to fix the authoritian rule of the Franco regime. Alas, the new king used the power Franco has left him to enforce the development of Spain into a democracy. Norway secured his independance through adopting a Royal family etc.

This latter form of securing a country through adopting the monarchical system is not longer an option in Europe, except maybe in Russia and some other Eastern states, where democracy is still not really introduced. But it's definately no option for countries like Italy, Germany, Portugal, Austria who have a stable political system in their republic.
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:22 PM
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Yes, you are right not in Western Europe. It happened in Spain in 1975, but as you rightly said, Spain then was not democratic. Don Juan Carlos is associated with the birth of a new democratic and prosperous Spain. This situation might be repeated in Serbia, and some other Eastern countries of Europe. We'll see.
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  #98  
Old 08-12-2011, 12:40 PM
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feargas # 87 - Why would the German Chancellor have any dealings with Georg Friedrich ?
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  #99  
Old 08-12-2011, 06:43 PM
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There have been a couple of occassions to do with Hohenzollern histocrical occassions and I am fairly sure that once when QEII visited Germany, GF was invited to and attended a dinner at which the Chancellior was there as well.
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  #100  
Old 08-13-2011, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by fearghas View Post
There have been a couple of occassions to do with Hohenzollern histocrical occassions and I am fairly sure that once when QEII visited Germany, GF was invited to and attended a dinner at which the Chancellior was there as well.
Hi Fearghas,

well I am afraid not. On the occasion of her last visits to Germany Prince Georg Friedrich was not on the invitation list of Buckingham Palace. It was a visiting point in Brandenburg (sorry but I cannot recall what it was exactly) which was on behald of the Brandenburg government. The Primeminister of Brandenburg did invite Rince Georg Friedrich, the Queen did not.

Regards
Alex R.
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