German Restoration?

[Lakshmi]

As I was hoping to read here there are some chances for monarchy in Germany, now I believe there are none.
It is amazing to read that royals are popular in Bavaria, but I guess it does not translate in support of restoring a monarchy.

[RoyalistRiley]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

But I think most people don't understand why it is unthinkable that Germany restores the monarchy: because now we are one state with important federal elements. It is unthinkable that we could settle for one crowned Head of State and not reinstall all the other Royals into their regional place as well. And who could pay for that? And who would want that in today's time?

As I'm not from Germany I don't know if it would work, but if a monarchy was restored at a federal level, could not other royal houses be restored at a state level, similar to how we have a Governor-General for the whole country and Governor's for each state here in Australia?

[MBGGfvB]

Originally Posted by RoyalistRiley

As I'm not from Germany I don't know if it would work, but if a monarchy was restored at a federal level, could not other royal houses be restored at a state level, similar to how we have a Governor-General for the whole country and Governor's for each state here in Australia?

I was thinking the same thing. It seems natural given the non-centralized model most of the HRE and German Empires were. If the Bavarians are inclined to support the return of their royal family, why not? I would guess the constitution would have to be changed to allow the aristocracy again, but leave it (delegate) to the Bundeslaender? Interesting thought...

[grandlordbenji16]

you right never say never i dont think this will happen in this lifetime things have change since 1918 and i dont think prince georg friedrich can take that responsibilty since mary people blame his great great grandfather-wilheml for starting the first world war then give hitler the oprtunity to make the second one which result a great catastrophy for germany i think he should live his life just as a pretender marry a noble woman since german monarchical law forbidding morganatic marriage for the sovereign in pretence and have mary princes and princes of prussia

[Saschana]

Originally Posted by RoyalistRiley

As I'm not from Germany I don't know if it would work, but if a monarchy was restored at a federal level, could not other royal houses be restored at a state level, similar to how we have a Governor-General for the whole country and Governor's for each state here in Australia?

It's nearly impossible; they are 16 German federal states and how many noble families?! Maybe more than a hundred. Also when you compare maps of Germany in 1918 and today you will see that Germany looks really different. Maybe even the half of former Prussia isn't German anymore

I agree that it could be possible if Bavaria was an own state that they would still have a king but the rest of Germany - clearly no. Some years ago I saw an interview with Prince Claus of the Netherlands for German TV and they asked him about reinstalling monarchy in Germany and I have to agree with him "Who wants to do this job?" When you think about it, it is true. Would you really like to give up your more (or less) private life in which you can do whatever you want to become the most photographed person in your country with basically no privacy anymore? And you wouldn't just decide for yourself; also for your whole family, your children and your grandchildren and so on...

As Georg Friedrich said himself that he has no political ambitions. And if you have some, simply use the democracy and get elected such as Hermann Otto Solms or Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg.

You can even become German president when you are part of a (lesser known) noble family...

And to be honest, Germans just love royals as long as they are not German

[Dierna23]

Well put, I agree with everything. Another question would be - who wants the restoriation of the monarchy in Germany? Me not and I know nobody else who would wish for it. There's only a super minority who would like to have a Kaiser again (of those, who actually know that we ever had a Kaiser ).

[Saschana]

Me neither, even if I like royals and talking about them but having a king/emperor - nah... It is good the way it is

[Tilia C.]

Exactly!
We had a stable democracy for 60 years now. No need to experiment with any other form of state/government.
In my whole life I never met a single person who was in favour of re-installing German monarchy. Never have I heard of any serious debate about it in the press or other media. Yes, there are a couple of monarchists around (though far less then royalty watchers), but I guess they amount to far less than 1% of the population. No chance that they ever will have any serious political influence.
And yes, many noble families are still very respected by the population, as long as they behave with dignity, show common sense AND respect the constitution.

[Dierna23]

I agree with you as well, Tilia C. I too have nothing against monarchy (would be the wrong forums for me then ). But for Germany its better how the things currently are, as you mentioned before, Saschana (and there's still and always will be a lot do with a democracy as well). I think its always difficult for a country to restorate a monarchy after it has been abolished, especially after such a long time & so many changes (partitioning of the states for example).

[fearghas]

My Aunt is german and while she still lived there she worked with one of the Bavarian princes and met both Duke Franz and Max as well as Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia. . She has a great deal of respect for all of them but would never had considered a rsetoration of any of the former monarchs. Now she can see some merit to it though not why they would bother. She also feels that as an Australian citizen it is no longer any business of hers.

[Harold]

As an American, not my concern except for being a monarchist. That said, if the Basic Law were changed to replace the Federal President with Georg Friedrich as Kaiser and install monarchs as figure heads for each Land not much would really change in my way of thinking.

Of course it's all academic and even if a throne were offered them the former royals might say "no thank you."

[JSP]

Germany has a parliamentary regime which means that power remains with the Parliament or with the Chanceller if he/she has a majority .

The German President has a mere protocolar role , just like in Italy f.i., and AFAIK, he is not even elected by the german people, so much for people's right to choose , but he is elected by Parliament members.

So, given his residual task, nothing would be so different from any constitutional monarch.

But I guess that Kaiser Wilhelm's ghost is still very present in many german minds.

Having said that, we all know the names of Europe's monarchs, even from the tiniest countries, but, apart from our german co-posters, who can honestly say who is the german president ?

[Royal Fan]

If Prince Georg became Emperor what would his Regnal number be?

[fearghas]

Originally Posted by Royal Fan

If Prince Georg became Emperor what would his Regnal number be?

He would be Kaiser/Emperer Georg Friedrich I. Or he might choose to go by Friedrich in which case I think he woiuld be the fourth.

[Saschana]

There's never been a 'Georg' in Preußen before. I remember reading somewhere that his grandfather never just called him 'Georg', instead always 'Georg Friedrich' because he didn't like the english name (or name of a couple of english kings) Georg

[Saschana]

Originally Posted by JSP

Germany has a parliamentary regime which means that power remains with the Parliament or with the Chanceller if he/she has a majority .

The German President has a mere protocolar role , just like in Italy f.i., and AFAIK, he is not even elected by the german people, so much for people's right to choose , but he is elected by Parliament members.

So, given his residual task, nothing would be so different from any constitutional monarch.

Actually the president is elected by Federal Convention, which means all members of the German Bundestag (parliament) and the same number of delegates elected by the parliaments of the sixteen German states; basically everyone can be elected to become one of those delegates, one of the parties has to nominate you. Those are often actors or sportsmen but also normal people. But anyway...

About the political power... It's hard to say because he has some but not in the way the chancellor, he isn't involved in the day-to-day politics

The main difference to an emperor/king is that he is elected (for five years; two times possible) and that he must have some qualifications (for example he must be above 40 - so right now not possible for Georg Friedrich ).

[RoyalistRiley]

Originally Posted by Saschana

It's nearly impossible; they are 16 German federal states and how many noble families?! Maybe more than a hundred. Also when you compare maps of Germany in 1918 and today you will see that Germany looks really different. Maybe even the half of former Prussia isn't German anymore

I agree that it could be possible if Bavaria was an own state that they would still have a king but the rest of Germany - clearly no. Some years ago I saw an interview with Prince Claus of the Netherlands for German TV and they asked him about reinstalling monarchy in Germany and I have to agree with him "Who wants to do this job?" When you think about it, it is true. Would you really like to give up your more (or less) private life in which you can do whatever you want to become the most photographed person in your country with basically no privacy anymore? And you wouldn't just decide for yourself; also for your whole family, your children and your grandchildren and so on...

As Georg Friedrich said himself that he has no political ambitions. And if you have some, simply use the democracy and get elected such as Hermann Otto Solms or Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg.

You can even become German president when you are part of a (lesser known) noble family...

And to be honest, Germans just love royals as long as they are not German

OK then, could the lesser noble families in a hypothetical German monarchy today serve in a capacity similar to a British Lord Lieutenant?

[Dierna23]

Originally Posted by JSP

Germany has a parliamentary regime which means that power remains with the Parliament or with the Chanceller if he/she has a majority .

The German President has a mere protocolar role , just like in Italy f.i., and AFAIK, he is not even elected by the german people, so much for people's right to choose , but he is elected by Parliament members.

I agree with you in this point, the President nearly only has a protocolar role. You could fell under the impression that he costs money for nearly nothing and that's a fact why I used to think in my foolish teens: well, we could have a Kaiser then instead just as well! But I never found anybody who agreed with me in this point, plus it isn't true that the President is unimportant. My humble impression still is, nobody in Germany wishes monarchy back and I think that should be the crucial factor why monarchy in Germany never will be restored.

But I guess that Kaiser Wilhelm's ghost is still very present in many german minds.

Other german members can correct me, but from my experience I can assure you: no! I'm 24 years old and when teachers in school asked "do you know which sort of government we had before the First World War?" maybe only two or three students out of 30 - beside myself - knew that we had a monarchy and a Kaiser. Sad, but true. It's 91 years ago now since Wilhelm II. abdicated and I think, the Kaiser's ghost is far away from peoples minds.

[Tilia C.]

Originally Posted by Dierna23

Other german members can correct me, but from my experience I can assure you: no! I'm 24 years old and when teachers in school asked "do you know which sort of government we had before the First World War?" maybe only two or three students out of 30 - beside myself - knew that we had a monarchy and a Kaiser. Sad, but true. It's 91 years ago now since Wilhelm II. abdicated and I think, the Kaiser's ghost is far away from peoples minds.

I am 40 years old and convinced that you got this right In these 40 years I never met a single German person who was pro-monarchy in Germany.
Yes, it sad that German students know hardly anything about pre-WWI-history. My guess is, that this is because in history classes the focus is put on WWII, the Nazi-regime and the Holocaust (at least in my education this was the case). Don't get me wrong: I think that it is absolutely important that students learn about this thoroughly! But it puts aside the history before that, and I personally am still trying to brush up my historical knowledge, and fill in the gaps that school left. And then German history is sooo complicated, with all the different, always changing small and smaller states und the roof of the empire.
But even if people here had a deeper knowledge of German pre-war history, they wouldn't want a Kaiser back. I think the last one left us with quite a trauma, with the destruction during WWI which lead to Hitler and WWII and so on. I have said this before: the republic has done us well. No need to experiment with something else.

[Warren]

I doubt too many Bavarians or Hessians or Saxons or Württembergers etc etc would wish to see a Prince of Prussia restored to an Imperial (or Royal) throne. The Prussian branch of the Hohenzollerns may have been involved in the creation of a unified German empire but the last Kaiser is held at least partly responsible for its calamitous destruction.

Bavarians may be sympathetic to the Wittelsbachs but that's purely regional. In other words, with the Hohenzollerns of Prussia largely discredited by the actions of the last Kaiser, there is no other dynasty or person to replace them as a national royal family or national royal figurehead.