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  #41  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
But just imagine how "clairvoyant" a person would have appeared who feared for Charles' and Diana's marriage even before they were wed.... Or think of the Schaumburg-Lippe/Sayn-marriage who ended after the heir was born and then the Fuerst Alexander moved on to marry a commoner (Nadja), whose children have no right of inheritance....Or the Oettingen-Spielberg/Sayn-marriage which broke down after the heirs were born and ended in divorce...

These things happen, especially in Germany and I must say I much prefer the Habsburg-approach of today where not a past head of the family but the present one decides about who is equal or not (if these families still feel the need to have equal marriages....)
I have heard from someone who knows the couple that the Schuamberg Lippe marriage was not of convinience but love. He loved her very much and was very hurt when she cheated on him. As for examples what about the Bavarian/Liechtenstein, the Bavarian/ Wurtemberg. Habsburg/Oldenburg, just some examples of equal marriages that are working well.
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  #42  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
But just imagine how "clairvoyant" a person would have appeared who feared for Charles' and Diana's marriage even before they were wed.... Or think of the Schaumburg-Lippe/Sayn-marriage who ended after the heir was born and then the Fuerst Alexander moved on to marry a commoner (Nadja), whose children have no right of inheritance....Or the Oettingen-Spielberg/Sayn-marriage which broke down after the heirs were born and ended in divorce...
It was said at the time of the marriage of Alexander and Marie Louise zu Schaumbrug-Lippe that it was a Love match. And it ended not direct after their heir was born. Prince Heinrich Donatus was born in 1994 and the couple got divorced in 2002.
And Alexanders second marriage was approved so the children have succession rights. And also it was sauid that the Oettingen-Wallerstein (not-Spielberg) marriage was a lovematch at the time. But this Couple was very young when they married.
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  #43  
Old 01-23-2011, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MarleneKoenig View Post
The case was settled several years ago.
He still has another uncle (Christian Sigismund who married equal) with whom he seems to have a good relationship with but I don't want to know what would have happend in case Georg Friedrich made an unequal marriage. I'm sure there again would have been court cases who is rightful heir...
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  #44  
Old 01-23-2011, 07:18 AM
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He is in a no-win situation. Had he announced his engagement with a woman who is neither "ebenbürtig" neither noble, he would have been accused of being unaware of his dynastic duties and of marrying for love only without any reflexion. He has announced his engagement with a princess, and he is said to marry by duty and not with conviction. What should he have done?
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  #45  
Old 01-23-2011, 07:38 AM
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As far as I know Christian Sigismund had a child out of wedlock from another relationship before he married equally. This is the reason why he isn´t the heir of the former royal house of Hohenzollern.
Concerning GF marrying Sophie: He knew from his birth that he would get in trouble or lose his rights of succession if he didn´t marry a noble woman. So I believe a little bit that this Sophie who he knows since her early childhood that at least his grandfather and mother f.i. liked him to have "an eye" on her and keep her as a girlfriend and I´m sure Sophie knows(knew) it as well and accepted it... - which means they both knew since their childhood that a match would be appreciated - and it worked....
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  #46  
Old 01-23-2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saschana View Post
He still has another uncle (Christian Sigismund who married equal) with whom he seems to have a good relationship with but I don't want to know what would have happend in case Georg Friedrich made an unequal marriage. I'm sure there again would have been court cases who is rightful heir...
After several cases settled by the Highest Court in Germany, a line emerged about wills with restrictions. These restrictions are binding as long as they only bind the next direct heir. You may omit a direct heir (after having made the legally binding provisions for this person or persons) but then you must leave the estate to someone who is then your heir. As soon as these restrictions are met (whatever they are as long as they are binding only the next heir) this heir inherits the estate and then can do with it whatever he likes as he had become the direct owner.

There are no such things as "entails" except when you give the estate to a foundation with stipulations on who should get something from it. But that's a different topic.

The reason for this is that an estate is considered personal property and you can do with it as you please. If it pleases you to follow century old family laws, so be it. But you cannot bind your heir to follow these family laws once he has become the real owner (Eigentümer), that is once he really inherited.

I guess once Georg Friedrich marries equally according to the restrictions in the will of his grandfather, he becomes the owner of the estate and can than decide that his son or daughter need not marry equally. But of course he can stick to the old rules and then they have to marry equally in order to inherit...
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  #47  
Old 01-23-2011, 09:47 AM
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As someone who has known about this relationship for some time, I can assure you that this is not a marriage of convenience. Georg and Sophie took their time before rushing into marriage.

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Originally Posted by Seraphine View Post
That doesn't mean it's no marriage of convenience. May be they like each other more than they love each other. But they thought it makes sense to marry because both would find no better / more appropriate ? I'm not envious, I'm just worrying.
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  #48  
Old 01-23-2011, 09:59 AM
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The case of this particular will, Georg Friedrich was the nach erbe - the will stated that the the heir and the next heir had to marry equally. Georg Friedrich became the nach erbe after his father's death. I know a lot about this particular case. Georg Friedrich came into his inheritance, as stated in the will, at age 30. German law requires that every child receive something (which has largely been ignored in the press concerning this case.) All of Louis Ferdinand's surviving kids received a percentage of the estate. Each of the children, even as adults, received allowances and a home from Louid Ferdinand. Georg Friedrich cannot afford to do this, so homes have gone up for sale. As you state, Georg Friedrich can include the same requirement in his will.
This is why Prince Gustav of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg, who is the owner of the Berleburg estates (and not his father) according to his grandfather's will, has not married Carina Axelsson. Thus, the estate and "title" will pass to another family member. The Leiningen case was different. Karl-Emich had already inherited a portion of the estate, due to the family trust, when he was 35. His first marriage was fine. It was not the fact that the second marriage was to a commoner, but to a particular person - and Emich changed his will to reflect this. Karl-Emich succeeded his father, but when the court case was finally settled, he lost the estate and the "title", everything reverted to Andreas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
After several cases settled by the Highest Court in Germany, a line emerged about wills with restrictions. These restrictions are binding as long as they only bind the next direct heir. You may omit a direct heir (after having made the legally binding provisions for this person or persons) but then you must leave the estate to someone who is then your heir. As soon as these restrictions are met (whatever they are as long as they are binding only the next heir) this heir inherits the estate and then can do with it whatever he likes as he had become the direct owner.

There are no such things as "entails" except when you give the estate to a foundation with stipulations on who should get something from it. But that's a different topic.

The reason for this is that an estate is considered personal property and you can do with it as you please. If it pleases you to follow century old family laws, so be it. But you cannot bind your heir to follow these family laws once he has become the real owner (Eigentümer), that is once he really inherited.

I guess once Georg Friedrich marries equally according to the restrictions in the will of his grandfather, he becomes the owner of the estate and can than decide that his son or daughter need not marry equally. But of course he can stick to the old rules and then they have to marry equally in order to inherit...
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  #49  
Old 01-23-2011, 12:35 PM
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I think there are some official pictures. Two are on preussen.de, but there are even more ( like on n-tv.de). If someone has even more, can you post them ?
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  #50  
Old 01-23-2011, 12:41 PM
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The news came as a surprise to me - congratulations to the couple! They look like a good match.
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  #51  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:10 PM
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Two more pictures of the couple

1 - 2
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  #52  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:22 PM
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Thank you Saschana. I like the first the most. Actually I have to say, they look indeed pretty in love and harmony.
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  #53  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:35 PM
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This branch of the family is Roman Catholic, the other branch, the Princes zu Ysenburg und Büdingen, is Protestant.
It is also interesting to add that Prince Georg Friedrich is a descendant of the Protestant branch of the same Ysenburg family...

Great-grandmother of his mother Donata,Duchess von Oldenburg,was Princess Emma von Ysenburg und Büdingen zu Büdingen,who died in 1926...

http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-fa...926%20emma.jpg

Above is a link for Princess Emma's picture...
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  #54  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:54 PM
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Donata's mother was a countess of Solms-Laubach and Sophie's grandmother was a princess of Solms-Braunfels. The lines separated centuries ago, but the contact is still close.
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  #55  
Old 01-23-2011, 06:52 PM
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The closest relationship is through Grand Duke KARL of Mecklenburg Strelitz. They are something like sixth cousins.
Karls daughter, Duchess Louise marries King Friedrich Wilhelm III of Prussis (she was very famous in her time, it was really only through her friendship with Emperor Alexander of Russia that Prussia didn't lose everything after Napolean).
Karls other daughter Duchess Friedricke is Sophies ancestor. Friedricke was very different to her sister and actually much reviled. She married three times, including the hated King Ernst August I of Hanover, Queen Victorias uncle..
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  #56  
Old 01-24-2011, 05:44 AM
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New picture: Both together on the Hohenzollern castle christmas market:
Wütender Protest gegen Flugrouten — Potsdamer Neueste Nachrichten

scroll down, it's on the right side.

When do you think, they got enageged ?

The official picture, announcement in the family etc: I guess it took some time.

I think it was some days around christmas.
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  #57  
Old 01-24-2011, 12:38 PM
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Herzlichen Glückwunsch!!

So Prince Albert von Thurn und Taxis! It´s now your turn!
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  #58  
Old 01-24-2011, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
I hear hearts breaking all across TRF, though :-)
One of them would be mine!

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Originally Posted by Seraphine View Post
I guess this is more a marriage of convenience. Both are glad to marry noble. They might even have deep feelings for each other and like each other. But I'm not sure if that marriage is forever.
Something about their body language in the photos says to me this is not so much a "love match" but more of a "making the best of a bad situation" kind of marriage. He knows he has to marry someone royal or he loses everything. Somebody somewhere must of come up with a list of "suitable" candidates. It was just a matter of finding one of them that he liked more than the others, that he could get along with, be friends with, etc. It may not be an arranged marriage like the days of yore, but its close.
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  #59  
Old 01-24-2011, 06:05 PM
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Honestly, I fail to see why a wedding between two royals should be everything but a love wedding.
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  #60  
Old 01-24-2011, 09:20 PM
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They are so many years in relationship..and as Marlene added they didn't even want to rush things all these years...
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