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  #121  
Old 08-21-2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Her sister, the beautiful Archduchess Marie Gabrielle still is free... but the relationship would not be thát close, bride and groom are second cousins then, sharing a Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg and Prince Félix de Bourbon de Parme as great-grandparents.
But they are double second cousins as they are also realted throught the Lignes.
Gabriella's paternal grandmother Archduchess Yolanda, née Princess of Ligbne and Antoine, Prince of Ligne the maternal grandfather of Rafael where also siblings.
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  #122  
Old 08-21-2014, 08:53 AM
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Another good match for him would be Princess Maria Annunciata or Princess Marie-Astrid of Liechtenstein, but they're also second cousins. He could also find a bride among the Belgian Nobility, as he father did.
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  #123  
Old 08-21-2014, 09:03 AM
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I have totally overlooked that Yolande and Antoine are brother and sister indeed, you are right....

Prince Antoine, the 13th Prince de Ligne married Princess Marie-Alix of Luxembourg. They are the maternal grandparents of Prince Rafael de Orléans e Bragança.

Princess Yolande de Ligne herself married Archduke Carl-Ludwig of Austria-Lorraine, they are the paternal grandparents of Archduchess Marie Gabrielle.

It indeed comes close in relationship but not close enough for prohibition because it is not a cousin marriage.

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  #124  
Old 08-21-2014, 09:14 AM
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Another good match for him would be Princess Maria Annunciata or Princess Marie-Astrid of Liechtenstein, but they're also second cousins. He could also find a bride among the Belgian Nobility, as he father did.
Not necessarily Belgian but indeed high nobility will (apparently) do. Fürstenberg, Windisch-Graetz, Looz-Corswarem, Esterházy de Galantha, Croÿ, etc.

But I have the feeling a "simple" Baroness will do as well...

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  #125  
Old 08-21-2014, 09:19 AM
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At this point, love and whatever title the girl has will do. The Prince need to find a suitable bride and produce the next generation of Princes and Princesses of Brazil. What a pressure, I do not envy him.
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  #126  
Old 08-21-2014, 09:31 AM
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He could have a look into the german mediatized Families as there are many catholic families. For example one of the 5 daughters of Hereditary Count Erich of Waldburg-Zeil and his wife Mathilde, née Duchess of Württemberg. Or from the former reigning Families the Fürst of Hohenzollern has also 3 daughters.
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  #127  
Old 08-21-2014, 09:40 AM
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What exactly is the requirement? A lady from a (former) Sovereign House?

Is a simple countess but from old nobility (like Countess Stéphanie de Lannoy) also okay? If that is so, the choices are pretty endless.
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  #128  
Old 08-21-2014, 09:43 AM
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I have totally overlooked that Yolande and Antoine are brother and sister indeed, you are right....

Prince Antoine, the 13th Prince de Ligne married Princess Marie-Alix of Luxembourg. They are the maternal grandparents of Prince Rafael de Orléans e Bragança.

Princess Yolande de Ligne herself married Archduke Carl-Ludwig of Austria-Lorraine, they are the paternal grandparents of Archduchess Marie Gabrielle.

It indeed comes close in relationship but not close enough for prohibition because it is not a cousin marriage.

The problem is hiow furhter you go back in the Family tree there will be more and more relationships.
for example through the Baganza sisters.

Maria Antonia was married to Duke Roberto of Parma and her daughter Zita was the last Empress of Austira. You end up here with Archduke Carl Christian.
Maria Annna was married to Grand Duke Guillaume IV. of Luxembourg and in this line you end up with Princess Marie Astrid and also with Princess Christine of Ligne
Marie José was married to Duke Karl Theodor in Bavaria and her daughter married in the belgian Royal Family. There one also ends in with Princess Marie Astrid

So one can say Archduke Carl Christian and Princess Marie Astrid are related severaly ways already.
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  #129  
Old 08-21-2014, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
What exactly is the requirement? A lady from a (former) Sovereign House?

Is a simple countess but from old nobility (like Countess Stéphanie de Lannoy) also okay? If that is so, the choices are pretty endless.
Initially, only a Princess from a reigning or formerly reigning House would be accepted. But the standards lowered with time.

Nowadays, a girl from an old aristocratic family would be enough.
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  #130  
Old 08-21-2014, 10:16 AM
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At this point, love and whatever title the girl has will do. The Prince need to find a suitable bride and produce the next generation of Princes and Princesses of Brazil. What a pressure, I do not envy him.
Not to forget that the lady should be catholic or at least willing to convert.

And even if the prince finds a perfect bride, there is no guarantee that children will come. Imo, it is a dangerous thing that the line of succession is quite thin. Better to have more spares in the background.

No, I don't envy him either.
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  #131  
Old 08-21-2014, 10:21 AM
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Not to forget that the lady should be catholic or at least willing to convert.
You're rights.

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And even if the prince finds a perfect bride, there is no guarantee that children will come. Imo, it is a dangerous thing that the line of succession is quite thin. Better to have more spares in the background.
That's true and it's why I think Princess Maria Gabriela should find a suitable husband willing to live in Brazil and raise their children here.
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  #132  
Old 08-21-2014, 10:31 AM
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I read somewhere (and I don't remember the exact place) that Princess Maria Gabriela has a commoner boyfriend.
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  #133  
Old 08-21-2014, 10:38 AM
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Initially, only a Princess from a reigning or formerly reigning House would be accepted. But the standards lowered with time.

Nowadays, a girl from an old aristocratic family would be enough.
Ah... in that case Prince Pedro has plenty of possibilities...
It also depends on how serious he takes the headship of the Imperial House and the (purely theoretical) chances on a restoration.

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  #134  
Old 08-21-2014, 10:38 AM
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I read somewhere (and I don't remember the exact place) she has a commoner boyfriend.
Prince Rafael has a commoner girlfriend, but I was told he will not go further with the relationship because of the promise he made at his older brother's funeral, that he would keep his Family's traditions and values.

I only heard once about Princess Maria Gabriela in a relationship, but it was, supposedly, with her cousin, Count Guy of Nicolaÿ.
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  #135  
Old 08-21-2014, 10:39 AM
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Ah... in that case Prince Pedro has plenty of possibilities...

Prince Rafael. Prince Pedro is dead.

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It also depends on how serious he takes the headship of the Imperial House and the (purely theoretical) chances on a restoration.
From what he has said so far, he takes it very seriously.
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  #136  
Old 08-21-2014, 10:58 AM
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Prince Rafael has a commoner girlfriend, but I was told he will not go further with the relationship because of the promise he made at his older brother's funeral, that he would keep his Family's traditions and values.

I only heard once about Princess Maria Gabriela in a relationship, but it was, supposedly, with her cousin, Count Guy of Nicolaÿ.
Thanks. I must have misread.
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  #137  
Old 08-21-2014, 11:24 AM
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Prince Rafael has a commoner girlfriend, but I was told he will not go further with the relationship because of the promise he made at his older brother's funeral, that he would keep his Family's traditions and values.
Well, it sounds awfully insincere to me, to enter into a relationship without giving the person a real chance. Absolutely not fair to the girl. And if he really means find a princely bride: who on earth is he going to make one falling in love with him, when he already has a girlfriend?
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  #138  
Old 08-21-2014, 11:31 AM
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Well, it sounds awfully insincere to me, to enter into a relationship without giving the person a real chance. Absolutely not fair to the girl. And if he really means find a princely bride: who on earth is he going to make one falling in love with him, when he already has a girlfriend?
I agree with you. It's a terrible situation. But he must have in mind that duty comes first.

But, as I said before, he'll probably be allowed to keep his rights even if he marries a commoner, the Imperial House hasn't a lot of options.
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  #139  
Old 08-21-2014, 10:00 PM
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He could have a look into the german mediatized Families as there are many catholic families. For example one of the 5 daughters of Hereditary Count Erich of Waldburg-Zeil and his wife Mathilde, née Duchess of Württemberg. Or from the former reigning Families the Fürst of Hohenzollern has also 3 daughters.
One of the Arco girls would do nicely too. They have an excellent lineage, descended from both Emperors of Austria and Kings o Bavaria and the Savoy line as well. I want all Royals to marry the person they love, just I want them to fall in love with other Royals.
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  #140  
Old 08-21-2014, 10:18 PM
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I want all Royals to marry the person they love, just I want them to fall in love with other Royals.
I agree 100% with you!
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