Prince Antonio, Princess Christine and Family

[Stefan]

Her sister, the beautiful Archduchess Marie Gabrielle still is free... but the relationship would not be thát close, bride and groom are second cousins then, sharing a Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg and Prince Félix de Bourbon de Parme as great-grandparents.

But they are double second cousins as they are also realted throught the Lignes.
Gabriella's paternal grandmother Archduchess Yolanda, née Princess of Ligbne and Antoine, Prince of Ligne the maternal grandfather of Rafael where also siblings.

 

[Cris M]

Another good match for him would be Princess Maria Annunciata or Princess Marie-Astrid of Liechtenstein, but they're also second cousins. He could also find a bride among the Belgian Nobility, as he father did.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I have totally overlooked that Yolande and Antoine are brother and sister indeed, you are right....

Prince Antoine, the 13th Prince de Ligne married Princess Marie-Alix of Luxembourg. They are the maternal grandparents of Prince Rafael de Orléans e Bragança.

Princess Yolande de Ligne herself married Archduke Carl-Ludwig of Austria-Lorraine, they are the paternal grandparents of Archduchess Marie Gabrielle.

It indeed comes close in relationship but not close enough for prohibition because it is not a cousin marriage.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Another good match for him would be Princess Maria Annunciata or Princess Marie-Astrid of Liechtenstein, but they're also second cousins. He could also find a bride among the Belgian Nobility, as he father did.

Not necessarily Belgian but indeed high nobility will (apparently) do. Fürstenberg, Windisch-Graetz, Looz-Corswarem, Esterházy de Galantha, Croÿ, etc.

But I have the feeling a "simple" Baroness will do as well...

 

[Cris M]

At this point, love and whatever title the girl has will do. The Prince need to find a suitable bride and produce the next generation of Princes and Princesses of Brazil. What a pressure, I do not envy him.

 

[Stefan]

He could have a look into the german mediatized Families as there are many catholic families. For example one of the 5 daughters of Hereditary Count Erich of Waldburg-Zeil and his wife Mathilde, née Duchess of Württemberg. Or from the former reigning Families the Fürst of Hohenzollern has also 3 daughters.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

What exactly is the requirement? A lady from a (former) Sovereign House?

Is a simple countess but from old nobility (like Countess Stéphanie de Lannoy) also okay? If that is so, the choices are pretty endless.

 

[Stefan]

I have totally overlooked that Yolande and Antoine are brother and sister indeed, you are right....

Prince Antoine, the 13th Prince de Ligne married Princess Marie-Alix of Luxembourg. They are the maternal grandparents of Prince Rafael de Orléans e Bragança.

Princess Yolande de Ligne herself married Archduke Carl-Ludwig of Austria-Lorraine, they are the paternal grandparents of Archduchess Marie Gabrielle.

It indeed comes close in relationship but not close enough for prohibition because it is not a cousin marriage.

The problem is hiow furhter you go back in the Family tree there will be more and more relationships.
for example through the Baganza sisters.

Maria Antonia was married to Duke Roberto of Parma and her daughter Zita was the last Empress of Austira. You end up here with Archduke Carl Christian.
Maria Annna was married to Grand Duke Guillaume IV. of Luxembourg and in this line you end up with Princess Marie Astrid and also with Princess Christine of Ligne
Marie José was married to Duke Karl Theodor in Bavaria and her daughter married in the belgian Royal Family. There one also ends in with Princess Marie Astrid

So one can say Archduke Carl Christian and Princess Marie Astrid are related severaly ways already.

 

[Cris M]

What exactly is the requirement? A lady from a (former) Sovereign House?

Is a simple countess but from old nobility (like Countess Stéphanie de Lannoy) also okay? If that is so, the choices are pretty endless.

Initially, only a Princess from a reigning or formerly reigning House would be accepted. But the standards lowered with time.

Nowadays, a girl from an old aristocratic family would be enough.

 

[Tilia C.]

At this point, love and whatever title the girl has will do. The Prince need to find a suitable bride and produce the next generation of Princes and Princesses of Brazil. What a pressure, I do not envy him.

Not to forget that the lady should be catholic or at least willing to convert.

And even if the prince finds a perfect bride, there is no guarantee that children will come. Imo, it is a dangerous thing that the line of succession is quite thin. Better to have more spares in the background.

No, I don't envy him either.

 

[Cris M]

Not to forget that the lady should be catholic or at least willing to convert.

You're rights.

And even if the prince finds a perfect bride, there is no guarantee that children will come. Imo, it is a dangerous thing that the line of succession is quite thin. Better to have more spares in the background.

That's true and it's why I think Princess Maria Gabriela should find a suitable husband willing to live in Brazil and raise their children here.

 

[Sancia]

I read somewhere (and I don't remember the exact place) that Princess Maria Gabriela has a commoner boyfriend.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Initially, only a Princess from a reigning or formerly reigning House would be accepted. But the standards lowered with time.

Nowadays, a girl from an old aristocratic family would be enough.

Ah... in that case Prince Pedro has plenty of possibilities...
It also depends on how serious he takes the headship of the Imperial House and the (purely theoretical) chances on a restoration.

 

[Cris M]

I read somewhere (and I don't remember the exact place) she has a commoner boyfriend.

Prince Rafael has a commoner girlfriend, but I was told he will not go further with the relationship because of the promise he made at his older brother's funeral, that he would keep his Family's traditions and values.

I only heard once about Princess Maria Gabriela in a relationship, but it was, supposedly, with her cousin, Count Guy of Nicolaÿ.

 

[Cris M]

Ah... in that case Prince Pedro has plenty of possibilities...

Prince Rafael. Prince Pedro is dead.

It also depends on how serious he takes the headship of the Imperial House and the (purely theoretical) chances on a restoration.

From what he has said so far, he takes it very seriously.

 

[Sancia]

Prince Rafael has a commoner girlfriend, but I was told he will not go further with the relationship because of the promise he made at his older brother's funeral, that he would keep his Family's traditions and values.

I only heard once about Princess Maria Gabriela in a relationship, but it was, supposedly, with her cousin, Count Guy of Nicolaÿ.

Thanks. I must have misread.

 

[Tilia C.]

Prince Rafael has a commoner girlfriend, but I was told he will not go further with the relationship because of the promise he made at his older brother's funeral, that he would keep his Family's traditions and values.

Well, it sounds awfully insincere to me, to enter into a relationship without giving the person a real chance. Absolutely not fair to the girl. And if he really means find a princely bride: who on earth is he going to make one falling in love with him, when he already has a girlfriend?

 

[Cris M]

Well, it sounds awfully insincere to me, to enter into a relationship without giving the person a real chance. Absolutely not fair to the girl. And if he really means find a princely bride: who on earth is he going to make one falling in love with him, when he already has a girlfriend?

I agree with you. It's a terrible situation. But he must have in mind that duty comes first.

But, as I said before, he'll probably be allowed to keep his rights even if he marries a commoner, the Imperial House hasn't a lot of options.

 

[fearghas]

He could have a look into the german mediatized Families as there are many catholic families. For example one of the 5 daughters of Hereditary Count Erich of Waldburg-Zeil and his wife Mathilde, née Duchess of Württemberg. Or from the former reigning Families the Fürst of Hohenzollern has also 3 daughters.

One of the Arco girls would do nicely too. They have an excellent lineage, descended from both Emperors of Austria and Kings o Bavaria and the Savoy line as well. I want all Royals to marry the person they love, just I want them to fall in love with other Royals.

 

[Cris M]

I want all Royals to marry the person they love, just I want them to fall in love with other Royals.

I agree 100% with you!

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The two eldest daughters of Archduke Lorenz of Austria-Este and of Princess Astrid of Belgium are a great match too:

HI&RH Princess Maria Laura of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este (26 years old)
HI&RH Princess Luisa Maria of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este (19 years old)

Picture: Maria Laura with her grandfather King Albert II of the Belgians http://static1.purepeople.com/artic...iversaire-d-albert-ii-de-belgique-637x0-1.jpg

Both have a great ancestry:

PARENTS
Archduke Lorenz of Austria-Este
Princess Astrid of Belgium

GRANDPARENTS
Archduke Robert of Austria-Este
Princess Margherita di Saovoia-Aosta
King Albert II of the Belgians
Donna Paola dei principi Ruffo di Calabria

GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
Karl I Emperor of Austria, King of Hungary
Princess Zita de Bourbon de Parme
Prince Amedeo di Savoia-Aosta, Duke of Aosta
Princess Anne d'Orléans
King Leopold III of the Belgians
Princess Astrid of Sweden
Don Fulco VIII Prince Ruffo di Calabria, Duke of Guardia-Lombarda
Donna Luisa dei conti Gazelli di Rossana e di San Sebastiano

GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
Archduke Otto of Austria-Este
Princess Maria Josepha of Saxony
Prince Robert de Bourbon de Parme, Duke of Parma and Piacenza
Dona Maria Antónia de Bragança, Infanta de Portugal
Prince Emanuele Filiberto di Savoia-Aosta, Duke of Aosta
Princess Hélène d'Orléans
Prince Jean d'Orléans, Duke of Guise
Princess Isabelle d'Orléans
King Albert I of the Belgians
Princess Elisabeth, Duchess in Bavaria
Prince Carl of Sweden, Duke of Westergötland
Princess Ingeborg of Denmark
Don Fulco VII Prince Ruffo di Calabria, Duke of Guardia Lombarda
Jonkvrouw Laura Mosselman of the counts Mosselman du Chenoy
Don Augusto Count Gazelli di Rosanna e di San Sebastiano
Donna Maria Cristina dei conti Rignon

 

[julliette]

They are a great option given their lineages but would they be willing to live in Brazil? That's probably a big problem Rafael has: would any European girl be willing to relocate to Brazil? I mean, nothing against Brazil, it's a wonderful country but it's not exactly an easy country to live in, so would any girl be willing to give up their comfortable lives in Europe to live there?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Heu... Princess Christine de Ligne, a Belgian, manages to live in Brazil. The late Princess Ragnhild, Mrs Erling Sven Lorentzen managed to live in Brazil. The present Queen of Sweden managed to live in Brazil. When someone is well-to-do, living in Brazil can be like paradise, I think....

I have no idea about the residences of the Vassouras and Pétropolis branches. Do they live in grand mansions?

 

[Cris M]

The Prince of Orleans-Braganza, who is the "Head" of the so-called "Petrópolis" Branch, lives in the Grão-Pará Palace, but the rest of the Orleans-Braganzas are very middle-class.

The Head of the Imperial House and the Prince Imperial live in a rented two-story house in São Paulo. Prince Antonio and Princess Christine have a house in Petrópolis and an apartment in Rio. Everyone has to work for a living.

But, as Duc said, a handful of European Princesses managed to live a middle class life in Brazil.

They are regal, but middle class.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The late Princess Ragnhild was married with Mr Erling Sven Lorentzen, who is a milliardaire, so not exactly "middle class". In 2008 Mr Lorentzen sold his participation in Aracruz Cellulose for appr. 1.7 billion US Dollar.

 

[Cris M]

That's true. But Princess Christine lives a middle class life. And she was raised in a castle.

And her mother-in-law, Princess Maria of Bavaria, also raised in castles and palaces, managed to live in a farm with no electricity, where she raised twelve children.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Thanks also for the background information about the (lack of) wealth of the Brazilean imperial family. Maybe a very wealthy wedding partner with a background in aristocracy and/or haute bourgeoisie would be the best, to help the House of Brazil with a financial injection.

Examples are Dona Rosalinda Álvares Pereira de Melo (Dukes of Cadaval) who married Hubert Guerrand-Hermès, heir to a dazzling fortune and rooted in aristocracy and haute bourgeoisie. Or Prince Guillaume of Luxembourg who married Sibilla Weiller, heiress to a dazzling fortune and granddaughter of a Prince Torlonia and an Infanta de España.... This sort of "candidates" is maybe more helpful than a very perfect ancestry but no money...

 

[fearghas]

Perhaps more it could be about being a bit remote from the Social, cultural, economic life of Europe/and or the US. I don't know how long it takes to fly between Brazi and the northern hemisphere.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

A flight from Rio de Janeiro to, let us say, Berlin takes about 12-13 hours non-stop.

 

[carlota]

may i ask where the thread for the wedding of amelia and james is? it all seemed to look beautiful and they were both beaming in the picture i saw in the blog! the bride's dress really reminded me of kate's dress which i wonder whether it is a good ideas as it was worn by such a visible bride...