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  #101  
Old 12-12-2007, 07:07 AM
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The baby of Dona Maria Francisca, will be named Lucas Ratto...
Has the baby been born or have they announced the name before the birth.
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  #102  
Old 12-12-2007, 07:16 AM
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The baby has been born late in November (November 28th?) I believe. Dona Maria Fransesca is the daughter of Prince Eudes and Mercedes Neves da Rocha. Eudes on his turn is the second son of the late Prince Pedro Henrique and Princess Maria of Bavaria. His marriage was morganatic son according to the rules of this branch of the Imperial family he lost his rights. His elder brother Luis Gastao is now head of the family but the claim will pass in the future to a younger brother Antonio and his descedants. Antonio is married to a Princess de Ligne, who is a cousin of the Grand Duke of Luxembourg (and a daughter of Princess Alix of Luxembourg).
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  #103  
Old 12-12-2007, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by raquel10 View Post
But anyone know something on the Almeida Braga family?
I know they're portuguese orign.
António Carlos de Almeida Braga (Braguinha) has a great estate in Sintra, where he spends at least 4 months a year. His parents are Portuguese, but I don't have more details on that.
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  #104  
Old 12-13-2007, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Elsa M. View Post
António Carlos de Almeida Braga (Braguinha) has a great estate in Sintra, where he spends at least 4 months a year. His parents are Portuguese, but I don't have more details on that.
Thanks Elsa M.

I also knew Braguinha had a estate in SINTRA. I heard that Braguinha had been moved to Sintra with his wife Luiza and their daughters in 1980s. In this estate he hosted Ayrton Senna. But he was born in Portugal or in Brazil?
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  #105  
Old 12-16-2007, 07:34 PM
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Dom Luiz and Dom Bertrand are unmarried and are very religious...
Actually, Dom Luiz and Dom Bertrand are true Catholics, those who follow strictly the Church rules. The problem is that they belong to an extremely conservative Catholic group, the TFP (Tradition, Family and Property), which disagrees with some of the changes that the Chuch made after the Second Vatican Council. They have made vows of chastity and live in the TFP's dependencies in Rio de Janeiro.
The Vassouras branch in general is very religious.
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  #106  
Old 12-17-2007, 04:14 PM
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But he was born in Portugal or in Brazil?
He was born in São Paulo. His parents are Portuguese though.
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  #107  
Old 12-27-2007, 07:26 AM
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Death of Pedro de Orleans and Braganza

Sevilla, December 27 (EFE) .- Pedro Orleans and Braganza has died this morning to 94 years at his home in the town Sevillian Villamanrique de la Condesa, sources told Efe of the family.

Peter Orleans, candidate for the Brazilian imperial throne, was widower of expectancy Borbón-Dos Sicilies and Orleans, aunt of King Juan Carlos, who died on August 8, 2005, with whom she married at the cathedral in the capital Sevillian 18 December 1944.

Since then he has lived with his wife, with whom he had six children, in the palace of Villamanrique, a town located some 36 kilometers from Seville and about 4,000 inhabitants, but this residence alternated with lodging in Brazil.

Peter Orleans was born on February 19, 1913 at the castle D'Eu (France) and visited Brazil for the first time in seven years

Fallece a los 94 años Pedro de Orleans y Braganza - Yahoo! Noticias
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  #108  
Old 12-27-2007, 10:35 AM
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With his death, the dynastic dispute in Brazil ends.

Neither his son or his grandson has showns any desire of keeping alive the claim of Dom Gastão.
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  #109  
Old 12-27-2007, 02:49 PM
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isnt he the grandfather of the 3 serbia princes'?
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  #110  
Old 12-27-2007, 03:04 PM
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Yes he is/ was
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  #111  
Old 12-27-2007, 03:25 PM
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El funeral por Pedro de Orleans será mañana en la Iglesia de Villamanrique

The funeral for Pedro of Orleans will be tomorrow in Villamanrique's Church

The funeral by Pedro of Orleans and Braganza, aspirant to the imperial Brazilian throne, which expired today in Villamanriqueo f the Countess Sevillian municipality , where he was residing from his wedding in 1944, will be celebrated tomorrow at six in the afternoon in the parochial church of the locality.
...
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  #112  
Old 01-10-2008, 11:38 AM
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Prince D. Pedro Gastao died two weeks ago and now his eldest son, Prince D. Pedro Carlos is head of the Petropolis branch of the Imperial Family. His son, Prince D. Pedro Thiago, is his eldest son and heir.
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  #113  
Old 01-10-2008, 11:41 AM
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New Hd Of Petropolis Branch Of Imperial Family

This Prince D. Pedro Carlos is now head of the Petropolis branch of the Imperial Family. His father, Prince D. Pedro Carlos, died two weeks ago (December 2007).
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  #114  
Old 01-10-2008, 11:48 AM
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The Imperial Family never actually renounced their throne. The republicans control the government and you will never here them even mention the Imperial Family. I wonder why they are so nervous about this. Perhaps until recently republicanism has been a horrid failure in Brasil?
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  #115  
Old 01-10-2008, 12:00 PM
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I believe all of them use the Prince or Princess title so long as the father uses it.
We really must get away from "morganatic" marriage useage. It is from another time and no longer has any usefulness. In fact there is nothing in the Imperial Brasilian constitution which addresses it. Therefore, renuciation of rights to the possible throne are all meaningless.
The Sao Paulo branch of the Imperial Familly calls itself the dynastic branch on an earlier renuciation. It is baseless.
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  #116  
Old 01-10-2008, 12:11 PM
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Prince Of Paraty Branch Of Imperial Family

If by genuine you mean his Brasilianess (Prince D. Joao). Yes, he is the natural for the job. He perhaps is the least European of the lot. He has made his own life and his own fortune. He worked on a ship as a commone seaman. He is a big surfista. People really like him.
If you mean a blood heir then one must gravitate to Prince D. Pedro Carlos of Petropolis. He has the direct blood line from Emperor Dom Pedro II.
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  #117  
Old 01-10-2008, 12:38 PM
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Petropolis Branch

The Petropolis branch of the Imperial Family is a tad on the disfunctional side. However, just because Prince D. Pedro Carlos does not run around showing himself off does not mean he is not interested. Various members of the Imperial Family have sold off family items simply because they need the money. They were never a very rich family.
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  #118  
Old 01-11-2008, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by imperiale View Post
Prince D. Pedro Gastao died two weeks ago and now his eldest son, Prince D. Pedro Carlos is head of the Petropolis branch of the Imperial Family. His son, Prince D. Pedro Thiago, is his eldest son and heir.
The Petrópolis branch is not part of the Imperial Family.

Today, the only brazilian princes are:

- Dom Luiz (Louis)

- Dom Bertrand

- Dom Antonio (Antony, married to Christine of Ligne)

- Dona Isabel (Isabella)

- Dona Eleonora (Princess of Ligne, and married to Michel, Prince of Ligne)

- Dom Pedro Luiz (Peter Louis)

- Dom Rafael

- Dona Amélia

- Dona Gabriela

- Henri of Ligne

- Alix of Ligne

P.S.: Imperiale, you should stop posting a message after another. That´s spamming.

P.S.2: If Dom Pedro´s renounce of 1908 is invalid, that means that Juan Carlos I of Spain is not the rightfull king just as Dom Duarte, the Duke of Braganza is not the rightful claimant to the portuguese throne? Their older uncles renounced their position when their country was a republic. Do NOT try to make us look like a bunch of fools.
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  #119  
Old 01-11-2008, 10:57 AM
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Isn't that just a matter of how you look at things? The late Dom Pedro Gastao was rather sure about his claim and some say that the renouncement of the rights of his father (due to his marriage to a Polish countess) was invalid and thus he and his side of the family is still entitled to be the head of the Imperial family.

Another thing, I was wondering if Dom Antonio is as ultra-catholic as his eldest brother?

On another note, didn´t Pedro Carlos once said that he wasn´t too interested in the headship of the (Petrepolis branch) of the family? Didn´t one of his brothrs or cousins replace him or something like that? A miguel I believe to remember?
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  #120  
Old 01-13-2008, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Isn't that just a matter of how you look at things? The late Dom Pedro Gastao was rather sure about his claim and some say that the renouncement of the rights of his father (due to his marriage to a Polish countess) was invalid and thus he and his side of the family is still entitled to be the head of the Imperial family.

Another thing, I was wondering if Dom Antonio is as ultra-catholic as his eldest brother?

On another note, didn´t Pedro Carlos once said that he wasn´t too interested in the headship of the (Petrepolis branch) of the family? Didn´t one of his brothers or cousins replace him or something like that? A miguel I believe to remember?
The father of Dom gastão renounced his position. Just like the older uncles of Juan Carlos I, king of Spain and Dom Duarte, duke of Braganza.

And why should someone support a republican branch?

Yes, that´s right. The Petrópolis´s branch is REPUBLICAN.

They said that to a spanish news magazine, you can read it here (in spanish):

http://www.publico.es/internacional/35312

I translated a few lines:

[...]

(In spanish) Francisco –51 años, economista, tatuaje de la rosa de los vientos en el brazo– es el prototipo de príncipe republicano. Sin trono. Y orgulloso de ello.

(In portuguese) Francisco - 51 anos, economista, tatuagem da rosa dos ventos no braço - é o protótipo de príncipe republicano. Sem trono. E orgulho disto.

(in english) Francisco - 51 years, economist, with a tatoo of the "rosa dos ventos" (rose of winds) in his arm - it´s a prototype of a republican prince. Without a throne, but proud of this fact.

Francisco is a son of Pedro Gastão who died some weeks ago and is a grandson of the prince whou renounced his position.

[...]

(In spanish) Pero cuando a Francisco se le pregunta por la monarquía, lo tiene claro: “Yo soy republicano. La monarquía en Brasil no funcionaría”.

(In portuguese) E quando perguntam a Francisco sobre a monarquia, a resposta é clara: "Eu sou republicano. A monarquia no Brasil não funcionaria."

(In english) And when Francisco´s asked about monarchy, the answer is clear: "I am a republican. The monarchy in Brazil wouldn´t work."

More clear than that, it´s impossible. Let´s go on with a few other lines:

(In spanish) De hecho, el príncipe-sin-trono-pero-con-cervecería-y-periódico, pertenece al Ramo de Petrópolis, como son conocidos los descendientes de Pedro de Alcântara de Orleáns y Bragança (1875–1940). Un ramo progresista y republicano.

(In portuguese) De fato, o príncipe-sem-trono-mas-com-cervejaria-e-periódico, pertence ao Ramo de Petrópolis, como são conhecidos os descendentes de Pedro de Alcântara de Orléans e Bragança (1875-1940). Um ramo progressista e republicano.

(In english) It´s true, the prince-without-a-throne-but-with-a-brewery-and-news-magazine, belongs to the Petrópolis branch, as the descendents of Pedro de Alcântara of Olréans and Braganza (1875-1940) are known. A republican and progressist branch.

Another one from the same interview:

(In spanish) Pedro renunció a los derechos dinásticos en 1908 para casarse con la checa Isabel de Dobrzenicz. Y abrió el camino de la saga de los príncipes sin trono: bodas con plebeyos.

(In portuguese) Pedro renunciou aos direitos dinásticos em 1908 para casar-se com a tcheca Elizabeth de Dobrzenicz. E abriu o caminho para a saga dos príncipes sem trono: casamentos com plebeus.

(In English) Pedro renounced his dynastic rights in 1908 so that he could marry the czech Elizabeth Dobrzenicz. And he opened the way to the saga of princes without a throne: marriages with commoners.

And another one:

(In spanish) “Creo que somos republicanos porque hay que adaptarse a la realidad. Además, somos respetados porque somos una família trabajadora”, asegura a Público Pedro Carlos de Orléans e Bragança, primogénito del ramo de Petrópolis.

(In portuguese) “Creio que somos republicanos por que temos que nos adaptar a realidade. Além do mais, somos respeitados por sermos uma familia trabalhadora” assegura públicamente Pedro Carlos de Orléans e Bragança, primogênito do ramo de Petrópolis.

(In english) "I believe that we are republicans because we need to adapt ourselves to reality. Besides, we´re respected because we are a family that works a lot" as Pedro Carlos of Orléans and Braganza, eldest of the Petrópolis branch openly assures.

Pedro Carlos is the oldest son of the late Dom Gastão and supposed "heir". A republican heir to an extinct monarchy?

(In spanish) Hubo presiones y boicot general. No pudimos hacer una campaña decente. Seguimos creyendo que la Monarquía puede ejercer un papel de moderador en la sociedad”, asegura a Público Antônio João de Orleáns e Bragança, del conservador ramo de Vassouras.

(In portuguese) Houve pressão e boicote geral. Não podemos fazer uma campanha decente. Continuamos a acreditar que a Monarquia pode exercer um papel moderador na sociedade, asegura públicamente Dom Antônio João de Orleans e Bragança do ramo conservador de Vassouras.

(In english) There was a pression and general boycotting. We couldnt´make a decent campaign. But we still believe the Monarchy could moderate the society", openly assures Dom Antonio João of Orléans and Braganza. from the conservative Vassouras branch.

Dom Antonio is the brother and second in the line of succession to Dom Luiz, just after his brother Dom Bertrand.

(In spanish) La diferencia con el aperturista ramo de Petrópolis es patente. “Si hoy se repitiese el plebiscito, nuestra postura sería la misma, la republicana”, afirma Pedro de Orleáns y Brangança.

(In portuguese) A diferença com o aberto ramo de Petrópolis é patente. “Se hoje se repetisse o plebisicito, nossa postura seria a mesma, republicana” afirma Pedro Carlos de Orleans e Bragança.

(In english) The differency between the Petrópolis and Vassouras branches are clear. "If there was another plebiscit again, our posture would be the same, that is, republican", as Pedro Carlos of Orléans and Braganza assures.

The "heir" of Pedro Gastão spoke. Is there someone else in here who still believe that the Petrópolis branch should be called "legitimate"?
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