Imperial Family Of Brazil

[Anna_R]

Originally Posted by Marengo

Why don´t the Orleans-Braganca´s attend? They weren´t invited or they declined?

I was referring to the international royalty. I believe that there's a high possibility that the Orleans e Bragança will be represented in some of the events, at least.

[Lecen]

Well, I´d like to know if the brazilian Imperial Family is or not considered part of the French Royal House.

This doubt appeared after I read the text that can be found here:

The 1909 "Pacte de Famille" of the House of Orléans

Please, read carefully the text.

So, what´s the truth, then?

[Marengo]

Both branches? That would be lovely, now let´s hope they all behave and we won´t get any scenes as during the Spanish wedding (when two rival claimants to the Italian throne got into a fight), this time Queen Anne-Marie won´t be there to take care of the woonded .

But seriously, how much rivalry is there between the two branches? Are they at least civil towards each?

[Anna_R]

D. João de Orleans e Bragança says that he puts away the luxury to live in simplicity
The prince tells 'TRIP' magazine that the imperial family is not rich and that his greatest patrimony is his family

Known as D. Joãozinho (which means 'Little João' in Portuguese), he, who's a photographer says that he rather travel around Brazil than abroad and choose Paraty as his city to live.

"People tend to think that the imperial family is rich... My greatest honor is having nothing. The family's history is my patrimony."

Picture

Source: EGO - NOT�CIAS - NAS BANCAS D. João de Orleans e Bragança diz descartar o luxo para viver na simplicidade

[Lecen]

Originally Posted by Marengo

Both branches? That would be lovely, now let´s hope they all behave and we won´t get any scenes as during the Spanish wedding (when two rival claimants to the Italian throne got into a fight), this time Queen Anne-Marie won´t be there to take care of the woonded .

But seriously, how much rivalry is there between the two branches? Are they at least civil towards each?

There are no fights and they get along pretty well.

The problem was that when Dom Pedro Gastão, son of Dom Pedro de Alcântara, who renouced his rights to the throne, declared that his father renounciation was invalid (it is valid), it occured a breach in the Imperial Family.

His father renounced in 1908, before he was even born and always, always make it clear for everyone that he wasn´t heir to throne and that his renounce was valid. But when he died in 1940, his son wanted to ignore his father´s world and actions and declared himself heir to the throne.

Even so, most, and I repeat, most of the monarchists are on Pedro Gastão cousin´s side, not his.

Dom Pedro Gastão has no one supporting him today, and there no groups on his side. While Dom Luiz, son of his cousin, has several groups that support him.

[Lecen]

The main reason for the reason that no one is supporting Dom Pedro Gastão anymore is bacause he is more than 90 years old now and live in Spain, not Brazil.

His oldest son never made any claim or ever tried to gather anykind of support. He never done anything in the name of the monarchy. Never participated on interviews, events, etc... nothing.

His oldest son, and grandchild of Pedro Gastão is even worse: he is the kind of prince that no one wants. The young man has more than 25 years old and doens´t work, has problems with the police because he sold historical objects from his aunt without her aknowledge, etc...

So, it´s a matter of time until it´s all over.

Let´s see some of the news on Pedro Gastão´s family:

1) Dom Pedro Carlos, Pedro Gastão´s oldest son, has sold the "Golden Feather" used by princess Izabella to sign the law that abolited slavery in Brazil. His sister wants to go into the court to get half of the money from the feather. It´s price was estimated in $250.000.

Source: http://veja.abril.com.br/vejarj/201206/patrimonio.html

Source: http://www.estadao.com.br/arteelazer/visuais/noticias/2006/mai/03/337.htm

2) The same sister want to the police asking for help against her abusive and alcooholic husband:

Source: http://www.terra.com.br/istoe/semana/138718.htm

3) Dom Pedro Thiago, son of Dom Pedro Carlos and grandchild of Dom Pedro Gastão demand $5.000 to appear in parties,

Source: http://www.colunista.com.br/olharsocial/ant12.htm

4) Dom Pedro Thiago will have to go to court because he sould historical objects from his aunt (the same on who has problems with the alcooholic husband) without her aknowledge.

Source: http://veja.abril.com.br/vejarj/311001/capa.html

5) Dom Pedro Thiago wants to became a police officer, even with problems with the police.

Source: http://www.terra.com.br/istoe/1670/1670semana.htm

6) Dom Pedro Thiago wants to become a politician and desire to become president of the Republic one day.

Source: http://clipping.planejamento.gov.br/Noticias.asp?NOTCod=150229

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Why someone would support this branch of the family?

[Marengo]

Thanks for awnsering that, Lecen. I heard from a Brazilian that supported the claim of Dom Luiz that it would have been better for the monarchist cause in Brazil if the Petropolis branch would have been the main claimants as Dom Luiz and his brothers are extremely conservative, almlost fascist. Is there any truth in that?

[HMTLove23]

When looking through the geneology of the brazilian royal family, its says that Irene de Nicolay b. November 6 1985 (Granddaughter of Princess pia) died April 10 2007, How did she die? She was so young! Is there Any photo of her too.

[Lecen]

Originally Posted by Marengo

Thanks for awnsering that, Lecen. I heard from a Brazilian that supported the claim of Dom Luiz that it would have been better for the monarchist cause in Brazil if the Petropolis branch would have been the main claimants as Dom Luiz and his brothers are extremely conservative, almlost fascist. Is there any truth in that?

Of course that to Dom Pedro Gastão become the heir, as he always wanted, he would need propaganda against his rivals.

Dom Luiz and Dom Bertrand are unmarried and are very religious. Although they would be considered "conservative", by no means at the point of being considered "fascists". They are the kind of people that believe that abortion is wrong, just as divorce and other stuff. They must be more catholic than the pope...

They oppose the left wing, people like Hugo Chavez from Venezulea. They believe people like him are nothing more than populist and demagogue dictators. I believe now you all have a "picture" of both princes.

Dom Antonio (Don Antony), the younger brother, it´s much more "down on earth" than his two brothers and his oldest son, Dom Pedro Luiz (Don Peter Louis), that has now 24 years old, one day will become the Head of the Imperial Family.

Originally Posted by HMTLove23

When looking through the geneology of the brazilian royal family, its says that Irene de Nicolay b. November 6 1985 (Granddaughter of Princess pia) died April 10 2007, How did she die? She was so young! Is there Any photo of her too.

I never heard of her before...

[Toledo]

I'm doing a quick post-and-go today to share something I found in youtube about the Imperial Family of Brazil.
Enjoy!

a 6:07 minute of all things Imperial in Brazil, flags, decorations, coats of arms, etc

YouTube - Familia Imperial Brasileira

a 4.44 minute video on the Imperial Family of Brazil

YouTube - FamÃ*lia Imperial Brasileira: Monarquia

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Prínce Joaozinho on a TV interview

YouTube - PrÃ*ncipe Dom Joaozinho na TV Câmara

=

I'll be back over the week. There are many more youtube mini videos related to royalty, palaces, etc but I'll track them down later on. Great for research since they are posted by persons with access to TV stations from around the world.
Bye

[HMTLove23]

1d) PEDRO HENRIQUE Afonso Felipe Maria Miguel Gabriel Rafael Gonzaga (Boulogne-sur-Seine 13 Sep 1909-Vassouras, Brazil 5 Jul 1981); m.Nymphenburg 19 Aug 1937 Maria Pss of Bavaria (b.Nymphenburg 9 Sep 1914)



Sister> 3d) Pia Maria Raniera Isabella Antonia Vitoria Thereza Amélia Gerarda Raimunda Anna Micaela Rafaela Gabriela Gonzaga (Boulogne-sur-Seine 4 Mar 1913-Lude 24 Oct 2000); m.Paris 12 Aug 1948 René Cte de Nicolay (Le Lude 17 Jan 1910-Paris 25 Nov 1954)


Nephew> 2e) Ct Robert de Nicolay, b.Neuilly-sur-Seine 17 Feb 1952; m.Paris 4 Feb 1983 (rel) 5 Feb 1983 Nathalie Pss Murat (b.Neuilly 5 Apr 1961)

1f) Cte René de Nicolay, b.Boulogne 29 Apr 1991
Grand Niece> 2f) Irène de Nicolay (Boulogne 6 Nov 1985-10 Apr 2007)
3f) Louise de Nicolay, b.Boulogne 15 Mar 1987
4f) Elvira de Nicolay, b.Boulogne 7 Aug 1988
5f) Cte Christian de Nicolay, b.Boulogne 11 Jan 2002

[Lecen]

Dom Joãozinho is not part of the Imperial Family. He is a grandchild of the son of princess Izabella, daughter of emperor Pedro II from a morganatic marriage.

Here goes the first video from eight of an interview with Dom Antonio, brother of the Head of the brazilian Imperial Family:

YouTube - Dom Antonio de Orleans e Bragança - 1ª parte

The Brazilian Imperial Family:

YouTube - FamÃ*lia Imperial entrando no Outeiro da Glória

(Dom Luiz and Dom Bertrand, followed by Dom Antonio and his wife, and Dom Rafael and his sister Amelia (both children of Dom Antonio)

Prince Dom Rafael speaking:

YouTube - PrÃ*ncipe D. Rafael no Encontro Monárquico

Originally Posted by HMTLove23

1d) PEDRO HENRIQUE Afonso Felipe Maria Miguel Gabriel Rafael Gonzaga (Boulogne-sur-Seine 13 Sep 1909-Vassouras, Brazil 5 Jul 1981); m.Nymphenburg 19 Aug 1937 Maria Pss of Bavaria (b.Nymphenburg 9 Sep 1914)

Sister> 3d) Pia Maria Raniera Isabella Antonia Vitoria Thereza Amélia Gerarda Raimunda Anna Micaela Rafaela Gabriela Gonzaga (Boulogne-sur-Seine 4 Mar 1913-Lude 24 Oct 2000); m.Paris 12 Aug 1948 René Cte de Nicolay (Le Lude 17 Jan 1910-Paris 25 Nov 1954)

Nephew> 2e) Ct Robert de Nicolay, b.Neuilly-sur-Seine 17 Feb 1952; m.Paris 4 Feb 1983 (rel) 5 Feb 1983 Nathalie Pss Murat (b.Neuilly 5 Apr 1961)

1f) Cte René de Nicolay, b.Boulogne 29 Apr 1991
Grand Niece> 2f) Irène de Nicolay (Boulogne 6 Nov 1985-10 Apr 2007)
3f) Louise de Nicolay, b.Boulogne 15 Mar 1987
4f) Elvira de Nicolay, b.Boulogne 7 Aug 1988
5f) Cte Christian de Nicolay, b.Boulogne 11 Jan 2002

She died young, indeed. But I really never heard anything about her before so, I don´t know how she died.

[Thribette]

Lecen, please excuse me, I had not read your question of august.
There are two points of view regarding the French succession.
The "Pacte de Cannes" concerns only the orleanist one, and is not very coherent with their position (elimination of kings who went reigning in other countries!)
For legitimists, the Orleans-Braganza are dynast.
For further details, the best would be to see the forum "Who is the rigntful heir to the French throne", in "Non reigning houses : France".

[Lecen]

Hello!

Well, the thing is that I would just like to know if the letter of 1909 does or NOT give the brazilian branch right to succession from the orleanist point of view. That´s why I´m wondering if someone has the full copy of the letter.

[Thribette]

From the orleanist point of view, I was explained by orleanists that this letter "restored" them in the right to succeed, but only after the extinction of the other branches, even if these were originally more far from the throne.
Nevertheless, dynastically, this is a little bit of a nonsense today, as none "French" (still in the orleanist meaning of the word) branch is after them. The only branch after them, is that of the dukes of Galliera, descendants of Antoine de Montpensier who left France to marry the infanta Luisa Fernanda, sister of Isabel II of Spain.

[Lecen]

Please, take a look in here:

The 1909 "Pacte de Famille" of the House of Orléans

[Thribette]

Thank you for this precision, the link is to the excellent site (in English) of François Velde, a French engineer living in USA, that contains many very interesting informations.