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  #321  
Old 05-05-2013, 03:16 PM
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Today we celebrate the 69th birthday of Her Royal Highness Princess Isabel of Brazil.

Isabel Maria Josefa Henriqueta Micaela Gabriela Rafaela Gonzaga, born in La Bourboule, France, during the Exile of the Brazilian Imperial Family, was the first daughter, and fourth child, of Prince Pedro Henrique (1909-1981), Head of the Imperial House of Brazil, and Princess Maria Elizabeth of Bavaria (1914-2011). Princess Isabel's godmother was her namesake, the Countess of Paris (née Princess Isabel of Orleans-Braganza; 1911-2003).

After the end of WWII, the Imperial Family was finally able to return to Brazil. Initially, they lived in Petrópolis, then moved to Rio de Janeiro. In 1951, Prince Pedro Henrique acquired a farm in Jacarezinho, Paraná, again, moving with his Family.

Princess Isabel studied German and French Languages and Civilizations, at the Universities of Paris and Munich. Returnig to Brazil, in 1966, she worked as Social Worker and was President of the Brazilian Red Cross. In 2004, she was made Honorary Citizen of the State of Rio de Janeiro.

Curently, Princess Isabel is the 9th Line of Succession to the Brazilian Throne. She lives between her apartament in Rio and the Imperial Family's farm in Vassouras (in the State of Rio de Janeiro). Her Royal Highness is unmarried and childless.
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  #322  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:41 PM
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Government pays tribute to Princess Isabel of Brazil (1846-1921)

Prince Antônio and Princess Cristina represented the Imperial Family during a formal session at the City Council of Rio de Janeiro, on May 13th.

The session was in honor of Prince Antônio's great-grandmother, Isabel (1846-1921), Princess Imperial of Brazil, in 125th Anniversay of the Golden Law, which was signed by Princess Isabel (as Regent, during her father's abscence), ending with Slavery in Brazil.

During the session, Alderman César Maia presented Princess Cristina with a bouquet of camellias. This flower was a symbol of the Brazilian Abolitionist Movement.

Some pictures of the event:

BOLETIM de HISTÓRIA IMPERIAL®: Sessão solene em homenagem Princesa D. Isabel. (Bol. Nº 35 - 13/05 2013)
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  #323  
Old 05-27-2013, 09:02 PM
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That's really sweet! Goes to show that the governor still recognizes the family event bough they are no longer reigning. That's great.
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  #324  
Old 05-28-2013, 03:18 PM
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I read today that the Portuguese are suffering from the ongoing austerity program, which was put in place to try to save the Euro economy, similarly to Greece's program. Do the Braganzas interest themselves in this debacle? They didn't personally cause it, but what do they think of it?
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  #325  
Old 05-28-2013, 03:29 PM
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I don't know, Mariel.
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  #326  
Old 05-29-2013, 01:25 PM
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Order of Precedence

Order of Precedence in the Imperial House of Brazil, in the House of Orleans-Braganza and in the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza

Male Precedence -

(The Head of the Imperial House of Brazil; Emperor de jure)

1. HIRH the Head of the Imperial House of Brazil (b. 1938).

(The Heir Presumptive to the Headship of the Imperial House of Brazil)

2. HIRH the Prince Imperial of Brazil (b. 1941).

(The Head of the Imperial House's brother, with Dynastic rights)

3. HRH Prince Antônio of Brazil (b. 1950).

(The Head of the Imperial House's nephew, with Dynastic rights)

4. HRH Prince Rafael of Brazil (b. 1986).

(The Head of the Imperial House's brother, without Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

5. HRH Prince Eudes of Orleans-Braganza (n. 1939).
6. HRH Prince Pedro de Alcântara of Orleans-Braganza (n. 1945).
7. HRH Prince Fernando of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1948).
8. HRH Prince Francisco of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1955).
9. HRH Prince Alberto of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1957).

(The Head of the Imperial House's nephews, without Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

10. HRH Prince Luiz Philippe of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1969).
11. HRH Prince Gabriel of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1980).
12. HRH Prince Pedro Alberto of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1988).
13. HRH Prince Antônio Alberto of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1997).

(The Head of the Imperial House's grand-nephews, without Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

14. HRH Prince Maximilian of Orleans-Braganza (b. 2012).
15. HRH Prince Gabriel Pedro of Orleans-Braganza (b. 2013).

(The Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

16. HRH the Prince of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1945).

(The Heir Apparent to the Headship of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

17. HRH the Hereditary Prince of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1979).

(The youngest son of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

18. HRH Prince Filipe Rodrigo of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1982).

(The brothers of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza, according to the order of primogeniture)

19. HRH Prince Afonso Duarte of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1948).
20. HRH Prince Manuel Álvaro of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1949).
21. HRH Prince Francisco Humberto of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1956).

(The nephews of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza, according to the order of primogeniture)

22. HRH Prince Manuel Afonso of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1981).
23. HRH Prince Francisco Teodoro of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1979).

(The first cousin of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

24. HRH Prince João Henrique of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1954).

(The son of the first cousin of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

25. HRH Prince João Filipe of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1986).

(The Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

26. HE Carlos, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1931).

(The sons of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

27. HE Afonso Carlos, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1970).
28. HE José, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1972).
29. HE Antônio, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1979).

(The grandsons of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

30. HE Taddeo Augusto, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 2011).
31. HE Armando, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (B. 2006).
32. HE Pedro, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 2008).

(The brother of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

33. HE Philippe, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1939).
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  #327  
Old 05-29-2013, 02:15 PM
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Order of Precedence

Order of Precedence in the Imperial House of Brazil, in the House of Orleans-Braganza and in the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza

Female Precedence -

(The wife of the Head of the Imperial House's brother, with Dynastic rights)

1. HRH Princess Cristina of Brazil (b. 1955).

(The Head of the Imperial House's sisters, with Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

2. HRH Princess Isabel of Brazil (b. 1944).
3. HRH the Princess of Ligne (b. 1953).

(The Head of the Imperial House's nieces, with Dynasctic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

4. HRH Princess Amélia of Brazil (b. 1984).
5. HRH Princess Maria Gabriela of Brazil (b. 1989).

(The wives of the Head of the Imperial House's brothers, without Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

6. HRH Princess Fátima of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1952).
7. HRH Princess Graça of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1952).
7. HRH Princess Cláudia of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1954).
8. HRH Princess Maritza of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1961).

(The Head of the Imperial House's sisters, without Dynastic righrs, according to the order of primogeniture)

10. HRH Princess Maria Teresa, Mrs. Hessel de Jong (b. 1959).
11. HRH Princess Maria Gabriela, Mrs. Hungria de Silva Machado (b. 1959).

(The wives of the Head of the Imperial House's nephews, without Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

12. HRH Princess Fernanda of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1978).
13. HRH Princess Luciana of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1981).

(The Head of the Imperial House's nieces, without Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

14. HRH Princess Anna Luiza, Mrs. Mansour (b. 1971).
15. HRH Princess Maria Pia, Mrs. Broglia Mendes (b. 1975).
16. HRH Princess Maria Carolina, Mrs. Carvalho Moreira (b. 1978).
17. HRH Princess Maria de Fátima of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1988).
18. HRH Princess Maria Manuela of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1989).
19. HRH Princess Isabel, Gräfin zu Stolberg-Stolberg (b. 1978).
20. HRH Princess Maria da Glória of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1982).
21. HRH Princess Luiza Carolina of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1984).
22. HRH Princess Maria Elisabeth, Mrs. Trindade de Souza (b. 1982).
23. HRH Princess Maria Eleonora of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1984).
24. HRH Princess Maria Tereza of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1984).
25. HRH Princess Maria Beatriz of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1990).
26. HRH Princess Ana Thereza of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1995).

(The wives of the brothers of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza, according to the order of primogeniture)

27. HRH Princess Sylvia Amélia of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1953).
28. HRH Princess Rita de Cássia of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1961).

(The sisters of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza, according to the order of primogeniture)

29. HRH Princess Maria da Glória, Duchess of Sergobe (b. 1946).
30. HRH Princess Cristina, Mrs. Calmon de Britto (b. 1950).

(The nieces of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza, according to the order of primogeniture)

31. HRH Princess Maria of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1974).
32. HRH Princess Julia of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1977).
33. HRH Princess Luiza Cristina of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1978).
34. HRH Princess Gabrielle of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1989).
35. HRH Princess Manuela of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1997).

(The wife of the deceased uncle of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

36. HRH Princess Tereza of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1929).

(The daughter of the first cousin of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

37. HRH Princess Maria Cristina of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1989).

(The wife of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

38. HIRH Archduchess Walburga, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1942).

(The wives of the sons of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza, according to the order of primogeniture)

39. HE Charlotte, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1972).
40. HE Gabrielle, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1977).

(The daughters of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

41. HE Teresa Cristina Hunt, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1971).
42. HE Maria Leopoldina Pavone, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1974).
43. HE Carolina Delcourt, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1976).
44. HE Maria Aparecida, Freiin von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1985).

(The granddaughters of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

45. HE Pia Maria, Freiin von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 2004).

(The wife of the brother of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

46. HE Anna Maria, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1946).

(The sisters of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

47. HE Alice Carolina, Contessa Formentini de Tolmino e Biglia (b. 1936).
48. HE Maria Cristia Dettori, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1945).
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  #328  
Old 05-29-2013, 05:32 PM
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I've noticed you do not have listed the second wife of Prince Eudes, Mercedes, and their children Maria Antonia, Maria Francisca and Guy. Is it that because Eudes and Mercedes aren't married religiously and thus she and their children aren't regrarded as members of the Imperial Family?
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  #329  
Old 05-29-2013, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan View Post

I've noticed you do not have listed the second wife of Prince Eudes, Mercedes, and their children Maria Antonia, Maria Francisca and Guy. Is it that because Eudes and Mercedes aren't married religiously and thus she and their children aren't regrarded as members of the Imperial Family?
They would never be members of the Imperial Family, because Prince Eudes ceased to be a Prince of Brazil when he renounced his Dynastic rights, in 1966. His Royal Highness is "just" a Prince of Orleans-Braganza.

But yes, the exclusion of Mrs. Mercedes de Orleans e Bragança and her descendents from the Order of Precedence is because she and Prince Eudes haven't married religiously.

Their marriage wasn't recognized by Prince Eudes' father, Prince Pedro Henrique, then the Head of the Imperial House, nor by the late Prince Pedro Gastão of Orleans-Braganza, who, by the time, was the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza.

Mrs. Mercedes de Orleans e Bragança and her children never received any title.

Also, MAfan, Prince Eudes and Mrs. Mercedes have four children, not three.

1. Mr. Eudes de Orleans e Bragança (b. 1977).

2. Mrs. Maria Francisca Almeida Braga Ratto (neé de Orleans e
Bragança; b. 1979).

3. Mrs. Maria Antônia de Carvalho Moreira (neé de Orleans e Bragança; b. 1979).

4. Mr. Guy de Orleans e Bragança (b. 1985).
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  #330  
Old 05-29-2013, 10:33 PM
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If one has a royal person who marries a commoner, the royal line continues, as in the case of several European monarchies at present. The desire to continue to have royal to royal marriages is not beneficial. I have been reading of the weakness which came into the Scottish and English royal family because of this worship of "dynastic" marriages. Of course some of them were annulled on the excuse that the partners were too closely related (had a common ancestor) as in the case of Eleanor of Aquitaine and (I think) King Henry II of England. It's hard to keep these many Henry's straight. The Brazilian royal family might gain support for restoration if the heir married a high quality young lady, well educated and supportive, like the Duchess of Cambridge. I am not particularly fond of the Cambridges, but I see Catherine as a "quality" person, better educated than many royals, although these days, young royals do get extensive education. High quality (education, moral attitude, good health) is more important than dynasty, but the dynastic line continues in cases such as the Cambridges, Mary and Fred, and others. And as you say, Brazillian, Princess Alexandra of Lux is considered a good dynastic candidate in spite of having a commoner mother of high quality. why not the same situation for other heirs?

I have wondered about the closeness of kinship between Guillaume and Stephanie. I think it is distant, but I"m not sure. It is this kind of marriage which could bring a compromise to the dynastic situation. As usual, the Lux people "get it right." Their intelligence level must be high, and by that I don't just mean IQ, but common sense and wisdom.
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  #331  
Old 05-30-2013, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
They would never be members of the Imperial Family, because Prince Eudes ceased to be a Prince of Brazil when he renounced his Dynastic rights, in 1966. His Royal Highness is "just" a Prince of Orleans-Braganza.
I didn't express well, I said "members of the Imperial Family" but I meant it in the broadest sense, I know they cannot be Princes of Brazil.

Quote:
But yes, the exclusion of Mrs. Mercedes de Orleans e Bragança and her descendents from the Order of Precedence is because she and Prince Eudes haven't married religiously.

Their marriage wasn't recognized by Prince Eudes' father, Prince Pedro Henrique, then the Head of the Imperial House, nor by the late Prince Pedro Gastão of Orleans-Braganza, who, by the time, was the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza.
Do you know why the marriage wasn't recognized exactly? Just because it wasn't a religious wedding or there was some other reason?
I wonder because in the Order of Precedence are listed the second wife of Prince Francisco Humberto d'Orléans-Bragança and their two daughters, whose situation seems to be the same as the situation of Prince Eude's wife and children.
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  #332  
Old 05-30-2013, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
Do you know why the marriage wasn't recognized exactly? Just because it wasn't a religious wedding or there was some other reason? I wonder because in the Order of Precedence are listed the second wife of Prince Francisco Humberto d'Orléans-Bragança and their two daughters, whose situation seems to be the same as the situation of Prince Eude's wife and children.
Oh, she was his mistress. Prince Eudes married Mercedes Neves da Rocha fours day after he divorced from Princess Ana Maria.

His parents, the late Prince Pedro Henrique and the late Princess Maria Elizabeth never accepted the idea of divorce and remarriage.

I remember to read an article about the younger generation of Princess Isabel descendants, when one of Prince Eudes daughters by his second marriage, I think it was Maria Antônia, said that she and her siblings weren't much closer to their Royal relatives.

But yes, the late Prince Pedro Gastão accepted the remarriages of his own children. But His Royal Highness always liked to change the rules to suit his wishes.
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  #333  
Old 05-30-2013, 09:06 AM
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TBH I find this ultra conservative stance somewhat scary and not in the christian spirit either (refusing to meet the mother of your grandchildren). I don't see how his children are to blame for their fathers supposed mistake either. IMO it is quite cold hearted and the opposite of how a christian -which they all claim they are- should be.

Wasn't the renouncement of prince Pedro de Alcantara invalid? There was no Brazilian law that required him (or any other member of the family) to marry equally IIRC. Furthermore, only a personal renounciation would be possible, so PdA could not renounce on his children's behalf. Neither was there a Bragança law either, the present head of the Portuguese house is married 'unequally' and Portugal's first Bragança queen was actually a commoner (albeit a noble one). The Brazilian state seems to recognise this as they returned the Petropolis properties to PG and not to LH. It is widely recognised that it is mainly due to the interference of ADss Isabelle aka 'Busabella' that princess Maria imposed these conditions upon her son. It seems the archduchess never got over the fact that one of her ladies in waiting married AD Franz Ferdinand.
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  #334  
Old 05-30-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
TBH I find this ultra conservative stance somewhat scary and not in the christian spirit either (refusing to meet the mother of your grandchildren). I don't see how his children are to blame for their fathers supposed mistake either. IMO it is quite cold hearted and the opposite of how a christian -which they all claim they are- should be.
Prince Pedro Henrique and Princess Maria Elizabeth never refused to meet with Mercedes. And their children were never put aside by the rest of the family. They simply didn't received any title.

They're always present at family events.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Wasn't the renouncement of prince Pedro de Alcantara invalid? There was no Brazilian law that required him (or any other member of the family) to marry equally IIRC.
Prince Pedro de Alcântara's renouncement was totally valid. There was no law saying he should marry equally, but also, there was no law saying he couldn't renounce to his Dynastic rights.

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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Furthermore, only a personal renounciation would be possible, so PdA could not renounce on his children's behalf.
The moment the Prince signed the renouncement instrument, he ceased to be a Brazilian Dynast. Only Brazilian people born to a Brazilian Dynast can inherit the Brazilian Throne.

So, none of Prince Pedro de Alcântara's children had any rights to the Brazilian Throne.

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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
The Brazilian state seems to recognise this as they returned the Petropolis properties to PG and not to LH.
Prince Pedro Gastão made an agreement with the Government while half of the family was in Europe. His Royal Highness was a very dishonest (a trait inherited by his eldest grandson, the Hereditary Prince of Orleans-Braganza). His sister, Princess Teresa, Mrs. Martorell, sued him, because he stole her inheritance.

Prince Pedro Henrique was in Europe by the time, he wasn't able to do something against Prince Pedro Gastão.

The vast majority of the Monarchists, foreign Royal House and the Brazilian Government recognizes Prince Luiz as the Head of the Imperial House. None of Prince Pedro de Alcântara's descendants are claming the Throne anymore, they are all Republicans.
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  #335  
Old 05-30-2013, 11:37 AM
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And as you say, Brazillian, Princess Alexandra of Lux is considered a good dynastic candidate in spite of having a commoner mother of high quality. why not the same situation for other heirs?
Mariel, I'll not rule out the possibility of Prince Rafael's children marry unequally and keep their Dynastic rights (I don't like the idea, but I can't rule it out).

But for Prince Rafael, his sisters, and their Ligne cousins, it was already decided: they have to marry equally.
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  #336  
Old 05-30-2013, 11:48 AM
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But for Prince Rafael, his sisters, and their Ligne cousins, it was already decided: they have to marry equally.
We will have to wait and see, but life has an interesting was of making "already decided" and "have to" fly out the window.
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  #337  
Old 06-01-2013, 04:40 AM
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Prince Pedro Henrique and Princess Maria Elizabeth never refused to meet with Mercedes. And their children were never put aside by the rest of the family. They simply didn't received any title.

They're always present at family events.


.
This ALL is simply NOT TRUE.
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  #338  
Old 06-01-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Alberto2244 View Post
This ALL is simply NOT TRUE.
Can you prove? Because all evidence shows exactly the contrary.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:29 PM
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Can you prove? Because all evidence shows exactly the contrary.
I can prove it easily! I keep the interviews by D. Eudes and D. Mercedes of the 80s (oh also two interesting ones by D. Maria of Bavaria).
And I could provide you their phone numbers.....
How old are you? It seems you did not watch tv in the early 90s either when D. Mercedes was interviewed in the small screen...
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto2244 View Post
I can prove it easily! I keep the interviews by D. Eudes and D. Mercedes of the 80s (oh also two interesting ones by D. Maria of Bavaria).
Indeed, very interesting information. I would like to see those interviews.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberto2244 View Post
And I could provide you their phone numbers.....
No, thank you. It would be too much intrusive.

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Originally Posted by Alberto2244 View Post
How old are you? It seems you did not watch tv in the early 90s either when D. Mercedes was interviewed in the small screen...
Yes, I was a kid during the 90's, and I admit that much of what I said is based on information given by family members (thanks to God, I came from a Monarchist family).

My late great-grandmother was a friend of the late Princess Maria Elizabeth, and she (my great-grandmother) was never a big fan of Mrs. Mercedes, but I always thought that, now, thing were settled between the Orleans-Braganzas.
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