Brazilian Marriage Rules & Musings

[NGalitzine]

What happens if Rafael marries unequally but decides not to renounce? Is unequal marriage an automatic disqualification even if he marries with his parents blessing to a Miss Smith?

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

What happens if Rafael marries unequally but decides not to renounce? Is unequal marriage an automatic disqualification even if he marries with his parents blessing to a Miss Smith?

In the event that he marry unequally and not renounce (very unlikely, from all I know about H.R.H.), there's really no problem.

There's no mention of Dynastic Marriages in the Imperial Constitution, from 1824, that was a House Rule introduced by Princess Isabel (1846-1921), the Head of the Imperial House, 1908, when her oldest son, Prince Pedro de Alcântara (1875-1940), decided to marry an Austrian Countess.

The Imperial Family is tied to both the Imperial Constitution and the House Rules, but only the first have a real legal authority. Prince Rafael isn't required to marry equally, nor to asks the Head of the Imperial House for consent. The only one who can take away his succession rights is himself, signing a renunciation document, like his uncles and aunts.

There's even an precedent for an unequall marriage been considered Dynastic by the Head of the Imperial House. In 1948, when Princess Pia Maria (1913-2000) married Count René of Nicolay (1909-1954), her brother, Prince Pedro Henrique (1909-1981), accepted their union as a Dynastic one, and Princess Pia Maria kept her rights to the Throne. Her sons aren't Brazilian Dynasts because they were registred as French citizens.

So, Prince Rafael can marry anyone, if the girl are going to be a commoner, Prince Luiz will not be very happy, nor will Prince Bertrand, but they can do nothing.

But I have to say, if Prince Rafael decide to marry unequally, he will renounce his succession rights, unless the Head of the Imperial House say that the marriage will be considered as Dynastic. The members of the Imperial Family has a very strong sense of duty regarding the House Rules.

 

[Pss]

I know that Prince Rafael said that he will marry a princess, but what happens if he ends up like Prince Gustav, Hereditary Prince of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg?He has a long term partner/girlfriend, no heir, but lives with her without marrying just to be The Prince of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg someday.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Olá, Pss, espero que você goste do The Royal Forums.

Well, if Prince Rafael decide to be like Prince Gustav, just living with a commoner, but not marrying her, there's no problem, he'll keep his succession rights. But I don't if something like this will ever happen, because Princess Amélia has said that they were educadet to only have sex after marriage.

If Prince Rafael end up like Prince Luiz and Prince Bertrand, unmarried and childless, after his death Princess Amélia (or one of her descendents, if she don't marry a commoner) will become the Head of the Brazilian Imperial House (or, who knows, the Empress of Brazil).

But I know Prince Antônio and Princess Cristina raised their four children with the notion that they have to marry equally. Remember that Prince Pedro Luiz was living in Europe, in order to find a suitable wife. Princess Amélia is living in Europe now, I hope she'll return married (there are some talks about her and Prince Ludwig of Bavaria). Prince Rafael will be the next to go to Europe (again, some say that the Princess of Ligne is looking for a suitable wife for his nephew).

 

[NGalitzine]

Isn't it rather naive to expect that of healthy young people, unless you expect to marry them off at age 16.Brazil has after all a very sexualized culture at least from what I have seen on visits to Rio and SP.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Well, I don't know what you mean by sexualized culture.

Catholic and Protestant families here tend to educate their children teaching the Christian principle of "sex only after marriage". I was educated in that away (and I'm from a Jewish family), the same goes for the Imperial Family, they are very Catholics.

 

[NGalitzine]

Lets just say I would be very surprised if Rafael made it through university and was still a virgin. I certainly would not expect it of any healthy young person regardless of what they were taught at home or in school.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

I don't know how things work in your country,perhaps there you have a very sexualised culture, but here, in Brazil, many people decide to only have sex after marriage.

Both Princess Amélia and her mother, Princess Cristina has said that the Imperial children were educated to only have sex after marriage. After all, this is a Christian teaching.

 

[Saschana]

Princess Amélia is living in Europe now, I hope she'll return married (there are some talks about her and Prince Ludwig of Bavaria).

If she is indeed involved with and will marry Prince Ludwig of Bavaria, it's unlikely that she will return to Brazil as he is the heir to the House of Wittelsbach and thus to the former royal house of Bavaria. To this day the Bavarians are very attached to the family and the family plays an important ceremonial role in society. So I don't think that they would be in favour of a move to Brazil.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Oh, she'll almost certainly marry in Brazil, because the Imperial Family's weddings always take place at the bride's country.

If Princess Amélia marries Prince Ludwig, she can be like her aunt, the Princess of Ligne, living in Europe but, sometimes, working on behalf of the Imperial Household.

As the Line of Succession to the Bavarian Throne is regulated by Salic Law, I think there'll be no problem if they register their sons as German citizens (making than eligible to inherit the Headship of the Bavarian Royal House) and their daughters as Brazilians citizens (making than eligible to inherit the Headship of the Brazilian Imperial House).

The Princess of Ligne's two children (Henri Antoine and Alix) are Brazilian citizens.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

So, Prince Rafael is the only one who can continue with the Imperial line? What a burden for such a young man!

But I like the idea of Dynastic Marriage, seems to be the right thing for Royals to do, in my opinion. I always hoped that the Duke of Braganza would marry Princess Isabel of Brazil, Prince Rafael's aunt.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

So, Prince Rafael is the only one who can continue with the Imperial line? What a burden for such a young man!

Well, that already happened before.

By 1834, Emperor Pedro II was the only male member of the Imperial Family. In 1843, he married Princess Teresa Cristina of the Two-Sicilies, and they had two son and two daughters. The Imperial Family continued in the line of their eldest daughter, Princess Isabel.

By 1931, Prince Pedro Henrique was the only male member of the Imperial Family. His uncle, Prince Pedro de Alcântara, renounced to his dynastic rights, in 1908. His other uncle, Prince Antônio Gastão, died unmarried and childless during First World War, in 1918. Prince Pedro Henrique's father died in 1920, leaving two sons and a daughter. Prince Pedro Henrique's brother, Prince Luiz Gastão, died in 1931, unmarried and childless, at the age of 20.

Prince Pedro Henrique married, in 1937, Princess Maria Elizabeth of Bavaria, and they had eight sons and four daughters.

So, I'm pretty confident that Prince Rafael will marry a Princess and have children, securing the Line of Succession for another generation.

But I like the idea of Dynastic Marriage, seems to be the right thing for Royals to do, in my opinion. I always hoped that the Duke of Braganza would marry Princess Isabel of Brazil, Prince Rafael's aunt.

Wow, Helena, I never thought about this possible match. But yes, the Duke of Braganza and Princess Isabel's would be a wonderful marriage, back in the late 60's early 70's. It's a shame the Duke only married at the age of 50 and Princess Isabel is unmarried.

 

[USCtrojan]

I thought that the Duke of Braganza married Isabel a business woman in Lisbon in 1995?

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

I thought that the Duke of Braganza married Isabel a business woman in Lisbon in 1995?

Yes, the Duke of Braganza married Isabel de Herédia in 1995.

We're talking about the fact that the Duke could have married with Princess Isabel of Brazil.

Princess Isabel of Brazil and Isabel de Herédia aren't the same person.

HRH Princess Isabel of Brazil - http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/575359_328933303878818_1077399134_n.jpg

HRH the Duchess of Braganza (Isabel de Herédia) - http://files.realmediotejo.webnode.pt/200000134-a5cd7a6c7d/disabel03.jpg

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

So, I'm pretty confident that Prince Rafael will marry a Princess and have children, securing the Line of Succession for another generation.

Oh, yes, Brazilian. I'm very confident that Prince Rafael will continue the the Imperial line.

As you showed, the Brazilian Imperial Family always managed to survive. In my opinion, this is due to their strong sense of duty.

The Orleans-Braganza are more regal than many European Royal Families. They surely deserve the Brazilian Imperial Throne back.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

As you showed, the Brazilian Imperial Family always managed to survive. In my opinion, this is due to their strong sense of duty.

Oh yes, the Imperial Family has a strong sense of duty.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Marriage prospects for Princesses Amélia and Maria Gabriela of Brazil

Well, we discussed a lot who Prince Rafael will marry, but what about his sisters? I think Princesses Amélia and Maria Gabriela are wonderful and beautiful ladies from the Gotha, and the two will marry with handsome Princes.

I made a list of suitable candidates:

- Prince Ludwig of Bavaria (b. 1982). I think he and Princess Amélia would be a wonderful couple.
- Prince Heinrich of Bavaria (b. 1986).
- Prince Karl of Bavaria (b. 1987).
- Prince Konstantin of Bavaria (b. 1987).
- Prince Hubertus of Bavaria (b. 1989).
- Prince Foulques, Duke of Aumale (b. 1974).
- Prince François of Orleans (b. 1982).
- Prince Robert, Count of La Marche (b. 1976).
- Prince Amedeo of Belgium, Archduke of Austria-Este (b. 1989). According to my granddaughter, he's the "definition of hotness".

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Princess Amélia of Brazil, she's a 29 years old architect. Currently, she's living and working in Spain. http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p480x480/537581_542655469113136_1332406539_n.jpg

Princess Maria Gabriela of Brazil, she's 24 years old. Last year, she graduated at University. Her Royal Highness lives in Rio de Janeiro, with her parents and older brother, Prince Rafael. http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/404850_329444723827676_2018331630_n.jpg

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

I would include:

- Prince Josef-Emaneul of Liechtenstein (b. 1989).
- Prince Alexander of Liechtenstein (b. 1972).
- Prince Wenzeslaus of Liechtenstein (b. 1974).
- Prince Rudolf of Liechtenstein (b. 1975).
- Prince Hubertus of Liechtenstein (b. 1971).
- Prince Emanuel of Liechtenstein (b. 1978).
- Prince Ulrich of Liechtenstein (b. 1983).
- Prince Georg of Liechtenstein (b. 1977).
- Prince Johannes of Liechtenstein (b. 1969).
- Prince Leopold of Liechtenstein (b. 1978).
- Prince Carl of Liechtenstein (b. 1978).
- Prince Lukas of Liechtenstein (b. 1990).

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Oh, a marriage between a Brazilian Princess and Liechtensteiner Prince would be wonderful! There is a great amount of beauty in both Families.

 

[NGalitzine]

Looks like someone has been browsing through the royal stud book again.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Looks like someone has been browsing through the royal stud book again.

It's a hobby. And the stud book is called Wikipedia.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Oh, a marriage between a Brazilian Princess and Liechtensteiner Prince would be wonderful! There is a great amount of beauty in both Families.

I read somewhere that Prince Bertrand, Prince Imperial of Brazil, wants that one of his nephews (Prince Rafael of Brazil and Prince Henri Antoine of Ligne) or one of his nieces (Princesses Amélia and Maria Gabriela of Brazil and Princess Alix of Ligne) marry a member of the Liechtensteiner Princely Family.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Prince Bertrand is a very wise man, and he would be an incredible Head of State and Emperor for Brazil. I met with him and Prince Luiz, Head of the Imperial House, some years ago, when my husband and I traveled to Brazil.

 

[Saschana]

I would include:

- Prince Josef-Emaneul of Liechtenstein (b. 1989).
- [-]Prince Alexander of Liechtenstein (b. 1972).[/-]
- Prince Wenzeslaus of Liechtenstein (b. 1974).
- [-]Prince Rudolf of Liechtenstein (b. 1975).[/-]
- [-]Prince Hubertus of Liechtenstein (b. 1971).[/-]
- [-]Prince Emanuel of Liechtenstein (b. 1978).[/-]
- Prince Ulrich of Liechtenstein (b. 1983).
- Prince Georg of Liechtenstein (b. 1977).
- [-]Prince Johannes of Liechtenstein (b. 1969).[/-]
- [-]Prince Leopold of Liechtenstein (b. 1978).[/-]
- Prince Carl of Liechtenstein (b. 1978).
- Prince Lukas of Liechtenstein (b. 1990).

Those are the ones that are already surely married; not entirely sure about some of the others. Plus, I would say that she would be much to closely related to Prince Josef-Emanuel as their grandparents are siblings. At least one of the others should already know Brazil due to his relationship with another well known Brazilian...

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Plus, I would say that she would be much to closely related to Prince Josef-Emanuel as their grandparents are siblings.

I don't think that's a problem. Their late brother, Prince Pedro Luiz almost got engaged with his second-cousin, Archduchess Marie Christine of Austria.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

That's true. The Archduchess was the only girlfriend Prince Pedro Luiz had.

Those are the ones that are already surely married; not entirely sure about some of the others. Plus, I would say that she would be much to closely related to Prince Josef-Emanuel as their grandparents are siblings.

Thanks for the piece of information about the Princes marital status.

At least one of the others should already know Brazil due to his relationship with another well known Brazilian...

I'm sure that dating Mariana Lima didn't made Prince Wence famous here in Brazil. Even she isn't that famous here. Although, if a Prince dates Gisele Buschen, he'll surely become famous here.
.

 

[NGalitzine]

It's a hobby. And the stud book is called Wikipedia.

An Online Gotha

Maybe you should broaden your search using the Gotha so you could eliminate those already married which Wiki doesnt always note.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

That's true. The Archduchess was the only girlfriend Prince Pedro Luiz had.

That Prince had a very strong sense of duty. I cried when he died. It was a great loss, not only for the Imperial Family, but for Brazil too.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Don't worry. At Prince Pedro Luiz's funeral, Prince Rafael assumed the compromise of follow on his late brother's footsteps.
The future of the Brazilian Imperial Family is secured. Prince Rafael will be a great Head of the Imperial House. Who knows he can a great Emperor!

An Online Gotha
Maybe you should broaden your search using the Gotha so you could eliminate those already married which Wiki doesnt always note.

I use the Gotha and the Peerage for more accurate researches. Wiki is just for quick researches (but, of course, isn't alway very much accurate).
.