Brazilian Marriage Rules & Musings


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
When I was on the "Marie Stuart" web page some years ago, I found there were a number of current claimants to the Stuart Descent. Not all of them claim the descent themselves, but others who are royalists claim it for them. Sophie Princess in Bavaria is descended from one of the daughters of a King James of England (I forget which James), so it is maternal descent. When I was on that site, one person claimed that he was descended from the twins born to Marie Stuart and Bothwell. He said the twins were spirited out of Scotland to France by Lady Mar. Lady Mar was one of the Hungarian nobles who attended Marie Stuart.

So there are lots of claimants. One of them was disproved a few years back as a fake.

It is interesting to me that Sophie's mother was a Douglas, a famous Scottish noble name which figured in the descent of Princess Alice of Gloucester.

Thanks for gorgeous pics, Queen Helena.
Oh I see, Brazillian, we are talking about Prince Ludwig, not the Duke Max descendants.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes, you're right. But only the Wittelsbachs from Duke Max's branch of the Family are in the "Jacobite Line of Succession". Prince Ludwig aren't from this branch.
The jacobite succession comes through the last bavarian Queen Marie Therese. And Prince Ludwig is a descendant of her even twice as his grandparents Prince Ludwig and Princess Irmingard where cousins. Ludwig was a son of Queen Marie Therese's son Prince Franz and Princess Irmingard was a daughter of Crown prince Rupprecht-
 
Interesting. So, the members of the Brazilian Imperial Family, as well other members of the House of Orleans-Braganza, are in the Jacobite Line of Succession, because of their descent from Princess Maria Elizabeth of Bavaira (1914-2011).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Last edited:
Has any member of the Vassouras branch of the House of Orleans-Braganza married a member of the Petropolis branch of the Imperial House of Brazil?
 
Does Prince Rafael have a girlfriend?
I've read interviews where he says he wants to marry a princess to continue with the dynasty.
 
When I was on the "Marie Stuart" web page some years ago, I found there were a number of current claimants to the Stuart Descent. Not all of them claim the descent themselves, but others who are royalists claim it for them. Sophie Princess in Bavaria is descended from one of the daughters of a King James of England (I forget which James), so it is maternal descent.


She actually descends from the youngest daughter of King Charles I, Henrietta of England, who was married to Louis XIV's brother, Philippe I, Duke of Orléans.
 
Does Prince Rafael have a girlfriend?
I've read interviews where he says he wants to marry a princess to continue with the dynasty.

Haven't read anything about it; but it could be that he has been dating someone for quite some time before the public gets to know.

I wonder which princesses would be interested in such a match? Prince Rafael was born on 26 April 1986; so anyone in their early thirties (or even late twenties) could work. I assume he is looking for a Roman Catholic bride.

Some options of princesses or duchesses he might personally know (although I seem to recall some of the Liechtenstein princesses are already in a relationship):

In their thirties (or turning 30 this year):
- Princess Maria-Anunciata vuz Liechtenstein (12 May 1985)
- Princess Marie-Astrid vuz Liechtenstein (26 June 1987)
- Princess Maria Laura of Belgium (26 August 1988)
- Princess Marie-Therese von Waldburg zu Zeil und Trauchburg (5 October 1989)
- Princess Léopoldine vuz Liechtenstein (27 June 1990)
- Princess Marie Elisabeth von Waldburg zu Zeil und Trauchburg (31 December 1990)
- Princess Alexandra of Luxembourg (16 February 1991) [non-royal mother]
- Princess Marie Immaculata vuz Liechtenstein (15 December 1991)

In their twenties (a bit young):
- Princess Marie Charlotte von Waldburg zu Zeil und Trauchburg (10 May 1992)
- Princess Marie Helenevon Waldburg zu Zeil und Trauchburg (29 November 1993)
- Princess Margarete vuz Liechtenstein (10 January 1995)
- Princess Luisa Maria of Belgium (11 Oktober 1995)
- Duchess Marie-Amelie of Württemberg (11 March 1996)
- Princess Marie-Caroline vuz Liechtenstein, Countess of Rietberg (17 October 1996)
- Princess Marie Gabrielle von Waldburg zu Zeil und Trauchburg (29 November 1996)
- Infanta Maria Francisca, Duchess of Coimbra (3 March 1997) [non-royal mother]
- Duchess Pauline of Württemberg (15 April 1997)
- Duchess Sophie-Dorothea of Württemberg (19 August 1997)
 
Last edited:
Prince Rafael's only known girlfriend was Talita Vaccaro.
[...]

Are they still together?
Prince Rafael is rumoured to be in a relationship with the Italian noblewoman Margherita delle Piane. Margherita's brother Guy is engaged (or married?) to Princess Xenia of Croÿ who in turn is a cousin through the Luxembourgs of... duh! duh! duh! a certain Rafael ...
 
Last edited:
Prince Rafael is rumoured to be in a relationship with the Italian noblewoman Margherita delle Piane. Margherita's brother Guy is engaged (or married?) to Princess Xenia of Croÿ who in turn is a cousin through the Luxembourgs of... duh! duh! duh! a certain Rafael ...

This is very interesting. Are there any pictures of the two of them together? and information?
 
Thanks for the updates but I have to say as soon as I got into this thread seen Warren's post right away from 05-17-2013, 11:51 PM makes his presence, and his organization skills, still commanding authority. His constant attention to make sure all topics were in the correct threads made this forum a place easy for us to find our way around.

Rest in peace our friend Warren, your beloved work on this forum will continue to be appreciated years after your passing.

Re
Prince Rafael's only known girlfriend was Talita Vaccaro.
Some pictures of them together:
https://zeronaldo.com.br/wp-content...-e-Rafael-de-Orleans-e-Braganca-02-Custom.jpg
https://img2.bdbphotos.com/images/orig/1/8/18y3nmqwznx7wqn3.jpg?skj2io4l
Are they still together?
What would happen if Rafael wanted to marry someone other than royalty/nobility?

They make a beautiful couple and, in this day and age, I doubt the Orleans-Braganza would mind. Spain, the UK, Denmark, Russia, Norway, etc. set the new rules on marriage flexibility. Besides, it's good to introduce DNA variety to these dynasties with so many cousins marrying one another in the past three centuries.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the updates but I have to say as soon as I got into this thread seen Warren's post right away from 05-17-2013, 11:51 PM makes his presence, and his organization skills, still commanding authority. His constant attention to make sure all topics were in the correct threads made this forum a place easy for us to find our way around.

Rest in peace our friend Warren, your beloved work on this forum will continue to be appreciated years after your passing.

Re


They make a beautiful couple and, in this day and age, I doubt the Orleans-Braganza would mind. Spain, the UK, Denmark, Russia, Norway, etc. set the new rules on marriage flexibility. Besides, it's good to introduce DNA variety to these dynasties with so many cousins marrying one another in the past three centuries.
His parents aren’t closely related so I don’t see any issues. I really dislike the term “introduce new DNA” it’s just so weird to me. I don’t think Russia is a good comparison at all. The U.K has generally been flexible with marriages.
 
Re


They make a beautiful couple and, in this day and age, I doubt the Orleans-Braganza would mind. Spain, the UK, Denmark, Russia, Norway, etc. set the new rules on marriage flexibility. Besides, it's good to introduce DNA variety to these dynasties with so many cousins marrying one another in the past three centuries.


I think as long as his archconservatice uncle is in charge the marriage rules will not be relaxed. And then there would also be several Princesses/Countesses who are not or not closely related to the Family. In Russia the marrige rules where much stricter as noe no Princess/Countess from mediatized Houses would have been allowed and to that there was the requirement that a future wife had to become orthodox.
 
Last edited:
His parents aren’t closely related so I don’t see any issues. I really dislike the term “introduce new DNA” it’s just so weird to me. I don’t think Russia is a good comparison at all. The U.K has generally been flexible with marriages.

On my DNA* remark I meant it to refer on these families with a long history of cousins marrying cousins that could affect the health of the new generation. The more diversity in royals marrying outside of their elite, the healthier their children will be.

Five Genetic Diseases that Plague Royalty

*And cousins marrying cousins is not limited to royalty, in my extended family we had a few and within my near and dear family. My grandmother (born in 1894), who was the boss, had my uncles marry two sisters. She also tried but failed in the late 50's to have my mother and her sister marry two brothers from another family that was also distantly related to ours. Not trying to be funny but she succeeded with my mother, so when my late father remarried my half-brother and I joke we are also distant cousins.

Then I recall she, while raising me and an older sibling, had the delusions to marry us to either 2nd cousins that were sisters themselves, or to one of her friends' daughters.

So that's what I refer to the DNA remark. Let them marry for love and with people outside of a family reunion party! ?
 
What would happen if Rafael wanted to marry someone other than royalty/nobility?

As stated several times before in the thread there has never been a requirement in the Brazilian constitution for members of the Imperial family to marry equally so it would be up to the Head of the House to approve the marriage or not. From what we've seen so far only marriages to some members of the titlef European aristocracy have been approved as dynastic.
 
Last edited:
On my DNA* remark I meant it to refer on these families with a long history of cousins marrying cousins that could affect the health of the new generation. The more diversity in royals marrying outside of their elite, the healthier their children will be.

Five Genetic Diseases that Plague Royalty

*And cousins marrying cousins is not limited to royalty, in my extended family we had a few and within my near and dear family. My grandmother (born in 1894), who was the boss, had my uncles marry two sisters. She also tried but failed in the late 50's to have my mother and her sister marry two brothers from another family that was also distantly related to ours. Not trying to be funny but she succeeded with my mother, so when my late father remarried my half-brother and I joke we are also distant cousins.

Then I recall she, while raising me and an older sibling, had the delusions to marry us to either 2nd cousins that were sisters themselves, or to one of her friends' daughters.

So that's what I refer to the DNA remark. Let them marry for love and with people outside of a family reunion party! ?
Plus there are nobles that he isn’t related to that he can marry if he wants. The important thing is that his heart should be in the right choice or place and that the woman whether noble or not should be someone he loves.
 
Back
Top Bottom