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  #181  
Old 04-26-2013, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
You're dancing as fast as you can but still not answering the basic question.

If these dynastic marriages are made for the good of the country, surely after 100+ years the public must know what good Brazil gets as a result.

Its a pretty basic question: what good has come to Brazil and the Brazilians as a result of these marriages?
We still having an Imperial Family.

Brazil is a Republic, but as long we have an Imperial Family to be followed by the Monarchist, who are getting stronger, a restoration is a possibility.
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  #182  
Old 04-26-2013, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
We still having an Imperial Family.

Brazil is a Republic, but as long we have an Imperial Family to be followed by the Monarchist, who are getting stronger, a restoration is a possibility.
Still dancing and not answering.
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  #183  
Old 04-26-2013, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Still dancing and not answering.
You asked how the Imperial Family keeping with the dynastic marriage traditions is good for Brazil.

The answer is that I gave in my last post. The country still has an Imperial Family.

That's the answer, you can not agree, or, as you trying to do, pretend I'm "dancing but not answering'.
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  #184  
Old 04-26-2013, 08:45 PM
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So the answer is that there has been no benefit to Brazil as a nation or the Brazilian people in general, but the benefit is that the former Imperial Family has continued to exist and these dynastic marriages have allowed them to maintain the pretence of royalty.
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  #185  
Old 04-26-2013, 08:48 PM
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Brazilian Empire and me are telling you why the Imperial Family has keeping with their traditions.

You don't agree. Okay, that's a right of yours. But the Imperial Family is not change their way of act, nor the Brazilian Monarchist will change their beliefs.

The Brazilian Monarchy, if ever restored, will have no affect on your countries.

I see no reason to be so nasty as you people.
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  #186  
Old 04-26-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
So? The Imperial Family has to throw away their traditions because of a coup? I believe the same would go for the Imperial Families of Russia and Germany.
Yup, and I think those guys are pretty pathetic too. (Archduke Imre, for example, reminds me of Kenneth the Page from 30 Rock, only kind of evil looking.)

Change happens. Things shift. Government changes. After awhile, these families really do need to adjust and understand that living for the past just for the sake of tradition can be crippling.

I can't imagine being raised to believe that I was only allowed to marry one of maybe four or five people in the world, and that my own preferences didn't really count for anything and I really can't imagine why anyone would consider that an appropriate thing to adhere to.

It really is like dog or horse breeding.
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  #187  
Old 04-26-2013, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
So the answer is that there has been no benefit to Brazil as a nation or the Brazilian people in general, but the benefit is that the former Imperial Family has continued to exist and these dynastic marriages have allowed them to maintain the pretence of royalty.
The benefit to Brazil as a Nation is that we still can have an alternative, because the political cenario here is such a mess. This week the politician are trying to go against the Constitution.

The President's party is involved in biggest ever corruption case in brazilian history.

But the Imperial Family is still there, prepared to serve us, as they did in the past. Read a bit about the history of the Brazilian Monarchy and you'll know how great that time was.
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  #188  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:01 PM
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I know this about all of them: their families were deposed long ago. Very few people in their respective countries have any desire whatsoever to return to the days when they were in power. They're clinging to hereditary privilege that is no longer recognized by most people, and living your life for that is pretty sad- especially when that entails not marrying the person you choose to love.


(And while I generally refrain from making fun of those folks, I make an exception for Imre, quite simply because he chose to work in ultra right wing politics in my own country, and I find him and his wife totally ridiculous. I wouldn't have brought them up if it weren't for the comparison made between the various ex-royal families.)
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  #189  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
I know this about all of them: their families were deposed long ago. Very few people in their respective countries have any desire whatsoever to return to the days when they were in power. They're clinging to hereditary privilege that is no longer recognized by most people, and living your life for that is pretty sad- especially when that entails not marrying the person you choose to love.
Excuse me, but not all people who marry equally are been denied to marry for love. A Prince and a Princess can fall in love with each other.
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  #190  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by QueenHelena View Post
Excuse me, but not all people who marry equally are been denied to marry for love. A Prince and a Princess can fall in love with each other.
It is of course, theoretically possible for a prince and a princess to fall in love with each other. I think it's cool when that happens to people who have no pressure on them to marry that way. But if there are outside pressures on someone that compel them to behave a certain way- if the behavior is coerced- then I don't think that's appropriate or positive.

These folks decide they're going to "marry equally" before they meet someone they're interested in. They eliminate 99.9% of the world's population as potential partners based on the archaic idea that blood is what makes someone worthwhile as a human being.

I'm not sure how it's not obvious why these ideas are 1) gross 2) irrelevant to modern society?
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  #191  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
But the Imperial Family is still there, prepared to serve us, as they did in the past. Read a bit about the history of the Brazilian Monarchy and you'll know how great that time was.
I actually have done some reading on the subject but maybe if you sent me your rose coloured glasses my viewpoint would change.

Frankly, the world only spins forward, never backwards, so you can never reclaim a bygone age.
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  #192  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Frankly, the world only spins forward, never backwards, so you can never reclaim a bygone age.
Have you ever heard about a place named Spain?
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  #193  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I actually have done some reading on the subject but maybe if you sent me your rose coloured glasses my viewpoint would change.

Frankly, the world only spins forward, never backwards, so you can never reclaim a bygone age.
Not a very good research, I suppose, judging from what you wrote about Monarchy in Brazil.
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  #194  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
It is of course, theoretically possible for a prince and a princess to fall in love with each other. I think it's cool when that happens to people who have no pressure on them to marry that way. But if there are outside pressures on someone that compel them to behave a certain way- if the behavior is coerced- then I don't think that's appropriate or positive.

These folks decide they're going to "marry equally" before they meet someone they're interested in. They eliminate 99.9% of the world's population as potential partners based on the archaic idea that blood is what makes someone worthwhile as a human being.

I'm not sure how it's not obvious why these ideas are 1) gross 2) irrelevant to modern society?
No one in the Brazilian Imperial Family was ever forced to marry.

They can marry who they want. But they'll only keep their succession rights if they marry equally.

You said that the Throne is unnocupied for more than a century, and that restoration is very unlikely. So, why would you worry for people losing their right of inheritance of that Throne?
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  #195  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by QueenHelena View Post
Have you ever heard about a place named Spain?
The difference would be that under Franco Spain was still a kingdom but without a king. Also it had not been more than a century since their had been a king on the throne in Madrid so their were still Spaniards alive who remembered the monarchy.
Are you suggesting what Brazil needs is a Fascist dictator to govern Brazil for about 40 years and then hand pick and train a member of the former dynasty (but not the head of the dynasty) as his successor without any public input or approval?
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  #196  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:49 PM
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In fact, before the coup who installed the Military Government in Brazil, the military asked Prince Pedro Henrique, the late Head of the Imperial Family, to become the Head of State of Military Dictatorship. His Imperial and Royal Highness, of course, refused to do so.
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  #197  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:57 PM
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Maybe these dreamers (Monarchists) could become realists and study political science, run for the government and actually do some good for the country. But of course, that would require living in the 21st century.
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  #198  
Old 04-26-2013, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandma828 View Post
Maybe these dreamers (Monarchists) could become realists and study political science, run for the government and actually do some good for the country. But of course, that would require living in the 21st century.
The dreamers are trying to make something good for their country: Restore the Monarchy.

At least they aren't on Internet talking about what they don't know (Brazilian political situation and Brazilian history), like you.
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  #199  
Old 04-26-2013, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
In fact, before the coup who installed the Military Government in Brazil, the military asked Prince Pedro Henrique, the late Head of the Imperial Family, to become the Head of State of Military Dictatorship. His Imperial and Royal Highness, of course, refused to do so.
Good for him. At least he understood monarchy should not be imposed on a people and would require popular support of the people to continue.
Did he tip anyone off before the coup happened so they could resist the military dictatorship or did he stay quiet?
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  #200  
Old 04-26-2013, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Did he tip anyone off before the coup happened so they could resist the military dictatorship or did he stay quiet?
The entire country was aware of what was happening. But if Prince Pedro Henrique had have tried to do anything against the military, he would have been killed, with his wife and their twelve kids.
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