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  #1  
Old 08-22-2016, 08:34 AM
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Why is Austria so anti-Habsburg?

Why did Austria ban the Habsburgs from entering Austria, and in general, why is Austria (or at least certain elements in Austrian government and society) so anti-Habsburg?

Yes, the government grossly miscalculated in 1914 and the population suffered tremendously. I don't see that as purely a Habsburg responsibility, as Austria was somewhat democratic. The Habsburgs after 1914, such as Emperor Charles and Otto von Habsburg, were really good people who tried their best for their people.

So...why has Austria been so anti-Habsburg, when in my view, at least some of them should be celebrated?
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:04 PM
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I will of course defer to the historical record and to those with much deeper and closer knowledge of the subject, but I believe that the Sixtus Affair had a noxious effect on Emperor Karl's reputation. It is also possible that the same qualities that will probably make him a saint of the Church rendered him temperamentally less well suited to the task of being a wartime emperor. But I agree that the level of animosity toward the Habsburgs in Austria is somewhat irrational, although these days some would say it's more indifference than animosity.
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:21 PM
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Here is a rather ungenerous article from 2004 that is nevertheless helpful in that it sets forth the various perspectives and opinions that have floated around about Emperor Karl.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...icism.religion
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Old 08-31-2016, 12:02 AM
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I know very little about it really, but could it have less to do with the personal qualities ot lack of them of the last Emperor and more a lingering resentment about the regime that sent the Austrian people into war and ultimately to a terrible defeat?

What I mean is, before 1914 Austria was the senior partner in an extensive Empire even if much had gone in the previous century. In 1914 Austria was there at the hub of European affairs and glittering, cosmopolitan Vienna was one of the major centres of European life and thought.

In 1919 the Empire was shattered, Hungary had pulled away leaving Austria as rather a rump of a country, (forgive me, any Austrians reading this) Vienna was faded and no longer a main centre, and there was great privation and suffering.

It was perhaps natural that in the post-war turmoil there was bitterness and resentment about the government and the Hapsburg Emperor who was so associated with this defeat and all it meant. Franz Josef was dead of course, but Karl was alive, so the resentment and anger may have tranferred itself to him, and that feeling may have continued on into recent times. Jmo.
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Old 08-31-2016, 12:29 AM
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My husband's paternal ancestors were the carriage makers for the Emperor. Another one was a Colonel in the Austrian military.

I find anything about Austria to be interesting (I dabble in geneology). There are still cousins in Austria, our son is going to meet some of them in the next year or so.

Being a younger crowd..not sure what they would say to this question...hmmm maybe I will have our son ask them (he loves history).


LaRae
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Old 08-31-2016, 12:53 AM
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Really Pranter? How interesting! I expect some of the carriages and coaches they made and refurbished are still around in museums and the palaces. Did any of them meet the Emperor, I wonder.

I don't know whether Royal dynasties occupy the thoughts of young people, much, nowadays. Maybe there will be some insights, however. Who knows? I don't know that much about the Hapsburgs but I have been interested for many years in what happened at Mayerling and the tragic end of Crown Prince Rudolf and Marie Vetsera.
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Old 08-31-2016, 06:28 AM
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In the 1930s, Empress Zita and Archduke Otto were working hard towards a restoration in Austria. They might even have succeeded, but along came Hitler and Austria instead embraced Nazism with a great deal of enthusiasm. Just look at the footage of Hitler's entry into Vienna after the Anschluss (which had the secret code name of Operation Otto). Perhaps the House of Habsburg is an inconvenient reminder that Austria, unlike Archduke Otto, did not reject Nazism.
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Really Pranter? How interesting! I expect some of the carriages and coaches they made and refurbished are still around in museums and the palaces. Did any of them meet the Emperor, I wonder.

I don't know whether Royal dynasties occupy the thoughts of young people, much, nowadays. Maybe there will be some insights, however. Who knows? I don't know that much about the Hapsburgs but I have been interested for many years in what happened at Mayerling and the tragic end of Crown Prince Rudolf and Marie Vetsera.

I know! We have pictures of the Colonel (a photo of his painting..he was born in the later 1700's). The family (well the husband's branch) immigrated to the US in the 1800's.

Another member of the family married a Danish Baron. Maybe they met the Emperor? I kinda get the impression that even the carriage makers were of a higher social status...quite possible they met the Emperor as well.

My in-laws went over to Austria in the 80's and met cousins, one of which worked for the Spanish Riding school in Vienna.

Since the whole family has been Catholic forever, there were parish registers which makes it somewhat easier to track people down.


Myself I am of the peasant class LOL


Oh my guess is most of the younger crowd has little interest in monarchy. I wonder how well history is taught there.

The Habsburg certainly do have a tragic history. Who's to say if any of them that are left would even be interested?

LaRae
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Old 07-21-2017, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I know very little about it really, but could it have less to do with the personal qualities ot lack of them of the last Emperor and more a lingering resentment about the regime that sent the Austrian people into war and ultimately to a terrible defeat?

What I mean is, before 1914 Austria was the senior partner in an extensive Empire even if much had gone in the previous century. In 1914 Austria was there at the hub of European affairs and glittering, cosmopolitan Vienna was one of the major centres of European life and thought.

In 1919 the Empire was shattered, Hungary had pulled away leaving Austria as rather a rump of a country, (forgive me, any Austrians reading this) Vienna was faded and no longer a main centre, and there was great privation and suffering.

It was perhaps natural that in the post-war turmoil there was bitterness and resentment about the government and the Hapsburg Emperor who was so associated with this defeat and all it meant. Franz Josef was dead of course, but Karl was alive, so the resentment and anger may have tranferred itself to him, and that feeling may have continued on into recent times. Jmo.
I have always been confused about everything when it comes to Austria-Hungary, Prussia and Germany and especially the Habsburg's; I just learned about Zita and Charles 5 minutes ago and I am shocked and saddened to hear that the Habsburg 's are "banned" from Austria. I can only say it is sad I won't state any opinion on the politics or reasoning because I am too ignorant of it all.
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Old 07-21-2017, 02:04 AM
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The immense Habsburg monarchy, the biggest nation in Europe, Russia apart (which stretches out on the European and Asian continent) imploded into many states. The new republican governments which seized power tried, with all means, to ban the Habsburgers and their legacy, purely out of self-survival. They absolutely wanted to rule out any possible pro-Habsburg uprisings and what was more effective than just ban the whole family out of the country, to brainwash schoolchildren with the virtues of the new republic?

Also do not underestimate that it was Austria-Hungary which started the immense slaughter, called World War I*. As a result of this never-seen massacre the thrones of Russia, Germany and Austria, including all those German small states tumbled down. The Von Sachsen-Coburg und Gothas in the United Kingdom and in Belgium rushed to change their names into "Windsor" respectively "De Belgique" because of the same sentiment.

In the meantime all blockades have been lifted. Any Von Habsburg is welcome in Austria.

*
June 28, 1914 - Gavrilo Princip assassinates Archduke Franz Ferdinand and Archduchess Sophie
July 28, 1914 - Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia
August 2, 1914 - The Ottoman Empire (Turkey) and Germany sign a secret treaty of alliance
August 3, 1914 - Germany declares war on France
August 4, 1914 - Germany invades Belgium, leading the UK to declare war on Germany
August 10, 1914 - Austria-Hungary invades Russia
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  #11  
Old 07-21-2017, 02:59 AM
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to understand the habsburg banning in Austria you have to get knowledge about the Austrian domestic policy between 1919-1938. first of all the socialist party did everything for the Habsburg ban after 1918 followed by the Nazis. an icon of the socialists Karl Renner give a warm welcome adress to Hitler before annexation of Austria in 1938. The operation code of Hitlers annexation in Austria was "Unternehmen Otto" as Otto von Habsburg was for Hitler a public enemy. study

Gordon Brook-Shepherds oeuvre about the fall and the later consequences of the Habsburg empire, which a quite serious source.
My personal opinion is, Austria uses still today the Habsburg stereotypical feeling and didn't ever any compensation payments for the family.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:53 AM
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In contrast it's my sense there is a good deal of nostalgia in Austria about the imperial past.
With a number of imperial traditions not only retained but very much appreciated. Like the balls, carriages and pride in the imperial splendor.
Not to mention the somewhat historically incorrect, but nevertheless loved heimat-movies.
Even mensur-scarring became fashionable again for a brief period!

Considering the recent problems in regards to electing the president and the political issues with EU for quite a few years actually, is the public sentiment towards a Habsburg as a neutral and nationally unifying head of state that unpalatable anymore?
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:56 AM
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[QUOTE=Duc_et_Pair;2004636]*
June 28, 1914 - Gavrilo Princip assassinates Archduke Franz Ferdinand and Archduchess Sophie
/QUOTE]

I have often wondered what Gavrilo Princip thought while in jail. As you know he died in 1918, and as such he must have been fully aware of what he in a sense started.
And certainly been aware of the disastrous outcome (at least on a short term basis) for Serbia.
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