The Habsburg Dynasty - Page 5

**Warren** · #81 09-09-2005, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serena

Do you have informations or photos of the "younger" generation of the house "Habsburg Lothringen"?! I read something about a Marie Valerie H-L (born 1982) ...

There are literally dozens of Habsburgs and Habsburg-Lorraines (aka -Lothringen). If an Archduke's bride is recognised as "equal" by Archduke Otto as Head of the Imperial House, the children bear the of title Archduke or Archduchess of Austria, with the style of Imperial and Royal Highness.

If the marriage is not deemed to be "equal" the children will be Counts and Countesses of Habsburg. Prior to 1990 the title for these members of the House was Count and Countess of Habsburg-Lothringen, unless they belonged to the Tuscany Branch (see below).

I believe that Archduke Otto makes these decisions together with his son and heir, the Archduke Karl.

Countess Marie Valerie (born 1982) is the daughter of Archduke Franz Salvator of Austria. After his first wife, Princess Anna-Amelie of Schönberg-Waldenburg, was tragically killed in a car accident, he married secondly Hedwig Lichem-Lowenburg. They have another daughter, Margaretha (b1981). Because they are members of the Tuscan Branch of the House of Habsburg in a non-equal marriage, mother and daughters are Countesses of Habsburg.

Hope this is clear (!).

Serena · #82 09-09-2005, 02:51 PM

Aaaah, thank you for the informations! So Hedwig Lichem-Lowenburg is Countess Marie Valerie`s mother?! Hmmm, I read Marie Valerie is an Archduchess?! Are there any other "young" Archduchess or Archduckes?!

**Warren** · #83 09-27-2005, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serena

Ah, thank you for the information! So Hedwig Lichem-Lowenburg is Countess Marie Valerie`s mother?! Hm, I read Marie Valerie is an Archduchess?! Are there any other "young" Archduchess or Archdukes?!

There is an Archduchess Marie Valerie. She is the daughter of Archduke Hubert Salvator of Austria, Prince of Tuscany (ie, of the Tuscan Branch of the House of Habsburg) and Princess Rosemary zu Salm-Salm. She was born in 1941 and married Max, Margrave of Baden, Head of the Grand Ducal House of Baden. Max is the son of Princess Theodora of Greece and Denmark, one of Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh's sisters.

There are dozens of young Archdukes and Archduchesses. Apart from their parentage and dates of birth, very little is known about most of them; they keep a low profile and do not attract attention (or scandal). They appear to be as discreet as the equally numerous Liechtenstein Princes and Princesses.
.

**Marengo** · #84 10-03-2005, 08:46 AM

I ahve a queston about the acceptance of Fransesca in the Hasburg family. I know some brothers of Archduke Otto did not approve of the marriage and considered it morganatic. Has the family accepted Fransesca now, or are there still doubts? Which archdukes did not approve of the wedding (or did not attend it?)

Furthermore I would like to know if Archduchess Eilika converted to catholisism prior of during her marriage?

**Warren** · #85 10-03-2005, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

Which Archdukes did not approve of the wedding (or did not attend it?)

a half answer here: Archduke Karl of Austria & Baroness Francesca Thyssen-Bornemisza 1993

Quote:

Furthermore I would like to know if Archduchess Eilika converted to Catholicism prior of during her marriage?

No, Archduchess Eilika is still Lutheran. A rare example of a Catholic/Protestant marriage within the House of Habsburg.

As to Francesca, I believe she and Archduke Karl lead largely separate lives.
.

**Marengo** · #86 10-04-2005, 06:17 AM

thanks Warren, I indeed asked the question twice (or more), but if 70 archdukes attended it is safe to assume that the majorety of the clan accepted the marriage.

I thought the same, apparently Fransesca lives in Salzurg with her children and Karl in Vienna (or the other way around), a pity but hopefully they will work things out in the future.

Do Eilika and Georg still live in Hungary btw? Given the names of their children they must like the country a lot. Does he still work there for a broadcasting coorperation?

Was Archduchess Henriette (nee Nassau), who married an archduke and lived over 2 centuries ago still a protestant? I thought I read somewhere that she was, something quite extraordinairy.
She also introducces the christmastree at the Austrian court I think.

kelly9480 · #87 10-05-2005, 01:26 AM

Prinz Lorenz apparently said something about having to accept that Otto was head of the house and therefore made decisions they all had to accept. I don't think it was in relation to something about Karl's marriage, but if that's the family mentality, it may explain why so many of them were present -- not because they personally approve, but because he calls the shots.

**Warren** · #88 10-05-2005, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelly9480

Prinz Lorenz apparently said something about having to accept that Otto was head of the house and therefore made decisions they all had to accept...but if that's the family mentality, it may explain why so many of them were present -- not because they personally approve, but because he calls the shots.

That's the way this family works; Archduke Otto is Head of the House of Habsburg and the rest of the family accept the fact. I think the situation would be very similar in Liechtenstein; I doubt too many princes or princesses would dare to cross Prince Hans Adam in his role as Head of the Princely House!
.

**Marengo** · #89 10-05-2005, 05:49 AM

a very healthy attitude in such a big family! I believe the same counts for the Bavarians. I believe prince Rasso replied something in that directio when he was asked about the 'succession'changes Duke Franz made, so that prince Luitpold could succeed (and consequently not Rasso or his son Wolfgang).

**Marengo** · #90 10-19-2005, 06:11 AM

Now something else: I have met a dutchman who claims to be a descendent of Empress Elisabeth and Emperor Franz-Joseph through Gisele's daughter Elisabeth of Bavaria (b. 1874). I wondered if this could be true and if there is an internetpage with the descendants of Sissi?

**Warren** · #91 10-20-2005, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

Now something else: I have met a dutchman who claims to be a descendent of Empress Elisabeth and Emperor Franz-Joseph through Gisele's daughter Elisabeth of Bavaria (b. 1874). I wondered if this could be true and if there is an internetpage with the descendants of Sissi?

Check this out:

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/houseofwillis/

All the descendants of Empress Maria Theresia, updated to at least Sept 2005!

W

**Marengo** · #92 10-21-2005, 01:55 PM

Thanks Warren, the guy appears to be a fraud (as I expected)!

Mapple · #93 10-21-2005, 02:44 PM

A question about the events of 1848 in Austria. Why did Archduke Franz Karl renounced his succession rights in favour of his son Franz Joseph, and was it readily accepted by everyone? It was at the end of the Revolution of 1848, if I remember correctly.

**Warren** · #94 10-21-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapple

A question about the events of 1848 in Austria. Why did Archduke Franz Karl renounced his succession rights in favour of his son Franz Joseph, and was it readily accepted by everyone? It was at the end of the Revolution of 1848, if I remember correctly.

I've just checked five books; only one of them mentions Franz Karl by name. Very curious for the illustrious Emperor's father to become such a non-person. The best I can come up with from these sources is that the Emperor Franz I raised Franz Josef as his successor (even as a child; Franz Josef was just 5 when Franz I died).

When the timing was right in 1848 and the revolutionary fervour had settled, the simpleton Emperor Ferdinand IV was eased out gracefully by Metternich, and Franz Josef took the throne in a smooth and accepted transition of power. This, after one of the authors had stated that Metternich and the Habsburg family were sticklers for traditional succession (which is why they allowed Ferdinand to take the throne although he was obviously unfit). But the "usurpation" of his own father's rights by Franz Josef passes without comment. Sorry, no idea!

.

Mapple · #95 10-21-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

...

When the timing was right in 1848 and the revolutionary fervour had settled, the simpleton Emperor Ferdinand IV was eased out gracefully by Metternich, and Franz Josef took the throne in a smooth and accepted transition of power. This, after one of the authors had stated that Metternich and the Habsburg family were sticklers for traditional succession (which is why they allowed Ferdinand to take the throne although he was obviously unfit). But the "usurpation" of his own father's rights by Franz Josef passes without comment. Sorry, no idea!

.

I see... It seems that Franz Karl was totally uninterested in becoming emperor, otherwise there would have been some erm... disturbance.

I've thought that it was Schwarzenberg who engineered the abdication of Ferdinand and ascencion of Franz Joseph, Metternich having been pressurised into resigning by then.

**Warren** · #96 10-21-2005, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapple

I see... It seems that Franz Karl was totally uninterested in becoming emperor, otherwise there would have been some erm... disturbance.

I've thought that it was Schwarzenberg who engineered the abdication of Ferdinand and ascencion of Franz Joseph, Metternich having been pressurised into resigning by then.

You are correct. The abdication/succession plan was smoothly executed by Prince Schwarzenberg, with assistance from Archduchess Sophia.

"Windischgraetz, Jellacic, Schwarzenberg, all the Ministers, assembled in a great half-circle round poor Emperor Ferdinand and his devoted Marianna. Ferdinand announced his abdication. Then Schwarzenburg, his voice trembling, read Karl's statement, renouncing the throne, explaining that at this juncture a younger force was needed. Then they gave their homage to Franz Josef, and after that Ferdinand and Marianna went upstairs to pack."

The Fall of the House of Habsburg, Edward Crankshaw
..

Layla1971 · #97 10-24-2005, 03:03 PM

This may not be important, but since this is a von Habsburg thread I thought I would post it here.

A map of the von Habsburg territories as of 1547.
Courtesy of Wikipedia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...g_Map_1547.jpg

Jil · #98 10-29-2005, 06:59 PM

What happened to the children of Archduke Franz Ferdinand after he and his wife were killed? Who raised them? Did they remain in Austria? I hope they were able to grow up and have happy lives later on.