Restoration of Monarchy in Austria

[Renata4711]

Not sure about this thesis:
Historical Memory and National Identity, Comparison between Austria and Japan

http://www.aspr.ac.at/epu/research/matsuoka.pdf

 

[Cory]

We should not forget the members of the Imperial Family were against the nazis and against the communists too.During the second world war Hitler wanted to capture the Habsburgs.
Even today the Habsburs are symbol of the real Austria, an Austria which does not accept totalitarism.

 

[SchwarzerAdler]

Another option it would be that Austria forgets all its links with the East and South and joins Germany (its true home) in a new country with a Habsburg monarch and Wien as the capital

Dear Johann Salvator,

May God the Lord prevent us from that!
Not that Austria doesn't belong to Germany (no, not the 1938 way - there has been other history before that), but I highly oppose Your statement that these new Germany should be reigned by a Habsburg. This always has been a problem of the HRE that the Habsburgs made House policy and NOT Reichs policy. So if this should ever happen, and I doubt that very much (because the average German and Austrian can only think back until 1938 and then a possible discussion will stop) the question which house should reign the new Germany is totally open.
No question that this should be a Prussian.... ;-)

Regards

Alex R.

 

[justina]

Another option it would be that Austria forgets all its links with the East and South and joins Germany (its true home) in a new country with a Habsburg monarch and Wien as the capital

Are you kidding???

never ever!!!

Germany is not our true home!!

And restoration of the monarchy in Austria is not discussed here - this just could happen if there will be a totalitarian system again and we will be "freed" by a king??? - no monarchy is gone - at least monarchies as we know until today -
what kind of systems (and there always will be some new ones as history shows) we shall have in future we do not know. This discussion is just vasted time. Sorry, I do not want to offend anybody

 

[Cory]

I do not understand why the austrians could not choose constitutional Monarchy.

 

[justina]

I do not understand why the austrians could not choose constitutional Monarchy.

Why should we?
Our presidents don´t have to say a lot and are elected. They sometimes cause trouble but usually its not that important who holds the office.

We are a republic and seriously apart from a few people living in the past and dreaming nobody is thinking, talking or minding monarchy.

 

[Cory]

If you are so republican and consider royalists as people who live in the past what are you doing on this Forum?
I do not supposeUk, Netherland Spain, Dennmark, Norway, Belgium, Luxembourg, Monaco...live in the past...on the contrary.
A constitutional Monarchy in Austria would be the past solution.
​

 

[justina]

QUOTE=Cory;1288055]

If you are so republican and consider royalists as people who live in the past what are you doing on this Forum?
I do not supposeUk, Netherland Spain, Dennmark, Norway, Belgium, Luxembourg, Monaco...live in the past...on the contrary.
A constitutional Monarchy in Austria would be the past solution.
​

[/QUOTE]


this has nothing to do with my conviction - this has to do with reality.
You cannot compare these countries with Austria, they have a different history and Austria is a republic.

 

[Kataryn]

Another option it would be that Austria forgets all its links with the East and South and joins Germany (its true home) in a new country with a Habsburg monarch and Wien as the capital

Oh no, that will never happen! As much as I would love to have Vienna as the capital instead of ugly Berlin, I don't see any German or Austrian party winning votes for that aim. The Habsburgs were never really rooted in Germany, part of their lands were German speaking countries and most people in public serviuce back then were German speaking but that was at a time before nationalism began. Austria since WWI has positioned itself as an independant state and I don't think they want to loose that. Especially now that the former Habsburg-lands join the EU and Vienna is considered a good place in the center of Europe to do business with Eastern Europe. Plus no other land of the EU would want an even greater Germany, especially not with Austria in it. It is true that a lot of Austrians wanted to joing Germany in 1938 but at the same time it is true that another important part of the population wanted anything but. It was hard for the Austrians to loose their position at the center of Europe in 1918 and it was tough to be a border country against the communist block but since all that ended, Austria more or less blooms as an independant state and I don't think anyone wants to loose that position and become part of the Federal Republic of Germany- as Austria today is a federal state as well, it would end up in that case altogether with the Austrian federal states becoming Federal states of Germany- so finis Austriae, finis Vienna... Oh no!

 

[Kataryn]

No question that this should be a Prussian.... ;-)

.

I agree with you. There is no question that this should be a Prussian because of course this would never be a Prussian. Prussia has brought nothing but problems for Germany, ursurping other German realms like Hannover and forcing the king of Bavaria to war when nobody including the king himself wanted that. Why should Germany want a Prussian king? If it wasn't for Prussia working endlessly towards becoming the first force in the middle of Europe, mostly through war on their neighbors (first Silesia, Poland, Hannover, and finally France) there would never have been a German Empire with a Prussian king at the head who forced Europe into WWI. IMHO, of course.

 

[Kataryn]

The only insights I have on him come from interviews, so I can't say more, but the situation is clearly not good for his public image.

Georg is member of a party which is in the opposition at the moment in Hungary. So you can hardly make him responsible for the actions of his "political enemies".

 

[Cory]

We speak now about the role of the Habsburgs in Austria and not in Germany.

 

[Sancia]

Georg is member of a party which is in the opposition at the moment in Hungary. So you can hardly make him responsible for the actions of his "political enemies".

I agree, but a statement against something one disapproves does not hurt.

 

[valentino1012]

it would be just lovely if austria had a monarchy again.Can you imagine? My mother lives in Vienna,she is now 92 years old. my dear Sebastian and I visited her yesterday and it was like return of time.When the coffin of the Crown prince passed us by, i had goosepimples all over.God, better don't remember. my mother in the end said that she wishes monarchy back. Of course she is very oldfashioned, her parents were great monarchists but a few young people were frenetic yesterday too.Just too lovely. x

 

[Renata4711]

Valentino - Do you and/or your Mum believe that a constitutional monarchy would be "a good thing" ?
Thanks
Renata

 

[Johann Salvator]

My apologies about my comment of a new Germany under a habsburg ruling from Vienna. I was trying to be funny and backfired

 

[Johann Salvator]

QUOTE=Cory;1288055]

If you are so republican and consider royalists as people who live in the past what are you doing on this Forum?
I do not supposeUk, Netherland Spain, Dennmark, Norway, Belgium, Luxembourg, Monaco...live in the past...on the contrary.
A constitutional Monarchy in Austria would be the past solution.
​

this has nothing to do with my conviction - this has to do with reality.
You cannot compare these countries with Austria, they have a different history and Austria is a republic.[/QUOTE]

Most of us stated that it is very unlikely that a restoration is going to happen in Austria. But we believe that a constitutional monarchy is superior to a republic, don't we?

Your statements about a dead monarchy and about Austria being different from other European countries are wrong. I don't claim to know Austrian society but a 90 something year old republic is a very young one for a European country. Just do not be so sure because you enver know...

 

[CSENYC]

Zero chance of Austria becoming a monarchy again. However, Vienna still seems to have circles of former royalty who live as if 1918 had never happened. I was an exchange student in Vienna almost 20 years ago and lived with the Windischgraetz family, and their social circle was very blue-blooded.

I still don't see why the Habsburgs had to be overthrown- very unfortunate.

 

[Johann Salvator]

They were not only overthrown, they were even deprived to have a quiet retirement into private lives. They were chased after, left with little money and plenty of enemies. The obvious ones: nazism, comunism and governments of the new countries born afterwards, and the not so obvious ones like the western allies of the new Austria, who occupied the country even until the 1950s, imposed neutrality on them, and never gave them the chance on voting on what form of government they wouldve prefered.

 

[Kit]

not a single chance that the monarchy in Austria will EVER be restored again. believe me I am Austrian I should know about these things. only after hell has frozen over. the attendance of our politicans at the funeral of Otto had something to do with him being a member of the European Parliament and with his support for Austria and his citizens during the Nazi years, etc. even while being in exile. Dr. Heinz Fischer and our members of the government wouldn't have been there if Otto hadn't renounced his claim in 1961. Zita's funeral was a different matter.

and by the way only the line of Emperor Karl had to go into exile, all the other members of the side branches and especially Franz Joseph's branch still have their properties in Austria. For example the so- called "Kaiservilla" (Emperor's villa) of Franz Joseph and Elizabeth is still being owned by their descendants. The same applies to several hunting lodges of Emperor Franz Joseph as well as "Schloss Artstetten" - "Castle Artstetten" which was owned by AD Franz Ferdinand and his wife and is still being owned by his great-grandchildren.

 

[Johann Salvator]

not a single chance that the monarchy in Austria will EVER be restored again. believe me I am Austrian I should know about these things. only after hell has frozen over. the attendance of our politicans at the funeral of Otto had something to do with him being a member of the European Parliament and with his support for Austria and his citizens during the Nazi years, etc. even while being in exile. Dr. Heinz Fischer and our members of the government wouldn't have been there if Otto hadn't renounced his claim in 1961. Zita's funeral was a different matter.

Picture this: Vienna, 1912, you having coffee in a coffee house, and then you say 'In ten years the Habsburgs will be living in exhile in a remote island with no money suffering cold and sickness'...

You never know...

and by the way only the line of Emperor Karl had to go into exile, all the other members of the side branches and especially Franz Joseph's branch still have their properties in Austria. For example the so- called "Kaiservilla" (Emperor's villa) of Franz Joseph and Elizabeth is still being owned by their descendants. The same applies to several hunting lodges of Emperor Franz Joseph as well as "Schloss Artstetten" - "Castle Artstetten" which was owned by AD Franz Ferdinand and his wife and is still being owned by his great-grandchildren.

That is true. All the Habsburgs that accepted the republican government could stay in Austria, and we have to respect everyone decisions.

 

[Kit]

first of all it was already clear at 1912 that there would be a war in the next few years. certainly the monarchy wouldn't have been abolished in 1918 if FJ would have been still alive but he wasn't. and the monarchy would certainly have ended with Hitler in 1938. But what you don't understand is that Austria had a long struggle to become what it finally is a very proud and stable Republic. The people here don't want a new monarchyc cause it tooks us more than 40 years to develop a national identity and awareness and we will not give that up. There has to be a very serious catastrophe that our Republic would be abolished, not sooner.
Yes the Austrian aristrocracy still exists, yes they are still very proud and many of them very, very rich and they have a great network among themselves. But they don't deal with the Austrian policy.

 

[Johann Salvator]

I stated in this same thread that the possibilities of Austria to become a constitutional monarchy again are very but very remote. I just don't use words like 'impossible' or 'never'.
First, in 1912 Europe had lived in peace for almost 70 years, unknown before. True, Germany was longing for expasion, but war was not clear at all.

Second, FJ was so old that everybody was waiting for him to go in order to 'do' new things, that is true. But assuming that the monarchy was over after him, again is wrong. You are like those people that assume that after Elizabeth II, the British monarchy would be over. After that we just play the 'what if game', meaning playing with history. If playing that game I could say that the monarchy opposed nazism, and then gloriously came back to power after the war, like it happened in Norway, the Netherlands, etc... But, that is only speculation.

Third and finally, I am sure you know today Austria way better than I do, and I respect your opinions and your right to express them. I say AGAIN: I don't think Austria will become a monarchy in the near future, but I know history enough to refuse to use words like 'impossible' and 'never'. I hope there is no catastrophe at all coming for Austria, because I love your country, and you do have a stable and prosperous republic, but proud?

 

[Midwestern Mom]

Ah hmmm I might have to see if that's a Kindle book.

I just realized that Austrian family is one of the few monarchies left that have the honor to wear white when meeting with the pontiff.

Who is the current heir to Franz Joseph?


MM

 

[CSENYC]

certainly the monarchy wouldn't have been abolished in 1918 if FJ would have been still alive but he wasn't.

Interesting, thanks. Why was the monarchy abolished though? Was it Karl's fault- was he just a bad ruler?

Just curious- I don't see the Habsburgs as "bad" (unlike Wilhelm of Germany). From my US perspective, they did a good job being decent rulers of an empire that was ruled a lot better than other multinational empires were. (I'd much rather live in Austria-Hungary than in Russia at the time, for example.)

 

[Midwestern Mom]

Third and finally, I am sure you know today Austria way better than I do, and I respect your opinions and your right to express them. I say AGAIN: I don't think Austria will become a monarchy in the near future, but I know history enough to refuse to use words like 'impossible' and 'never'. I hope there is no catastrophe at all coming for Austria, because I love your country, and you do have a stable and prosperous republic, but proud?

I've not lived in Europe, my husband has (and he loved it back then not so sure he'd want to do it now) but I watch those shows on TV about people as they go about buying houses/property in various European countries. One show featured Vienna ...it seems very expensive to live in that city. Of course the whole structure is very different (or so it seems) from the country I live in.

MM

 

[Kit]

I could try to summarize the Austrian history after the 1. WW and especially after the 2.WW for you but it is a very complex topic. It has something to do with finding a national identity, the Austrians were traumatized after the end of the monarchy and they didn't know who they really were. They had to go a very hard way to find that out and when they finally knew WHO they were in 1955 they were a proud republic, yes! And we still are by the way: yes we like some imperial traditions and we are certainly proud of our history and traditions but Austria is more than just a small country next to Germany or some sort of old-fashioned fairytale republic. To cite Joseph Roth in the "Kapuzinergruft": Austria is a religion. Yes it is, you seem to think we live in a fairytale republic and in fact we are still a hidden monarchy - we are not! Believe me! The thing is we no longer have a problem with our history and our aristocracy and certainly not the Habsburgs BUT we know finally who we are and why we are what we are. because we honour our history we know where we come from, where we stand and where we will go. I know the saying Never say Never but there has to be a huge catastrophe that the Republic will be abolished.

and by the way: yes there is a definite possibility that the British monarchy will no longer exist one day.

 

[Kit]

Why was the monarchy abolished though? Was it Karl's fault- was he just a bad ruler?

No, in fact he was a very decent man. The pope made him a blessed one in 2004. Yes why was it abolished. That is still the question till today. Cause we lost the war ? Cause we lost so many countries that we no longer knew who we are ? Cause the citizens were sick and tired of the monarchy? Cause the German monarchy was abolished as well and Austria wanted already in 1918 a union between these countries which was forbidden by GB and F. ??? ... European history and especially the Austrian history is very complex.

 

[Johann Salvator]

I could try to summarize the Austrian history after the 1. WW and especially after the 2.WW for you but it is a very complex topic. It has something to do with finding a national identity, the Austrians were traumatized after the end of the monarchy and they didn't know who they really were. They had to go a very hard way to find that out and when they finally knew WHO they were in 1955 they were a proud republic, yes! And we still are by the way: yes we like some imperial traditions and we are certainly proud of our history and traditions but Austria is more than just a small country next to Germany or some sort of old-fashioned fairytale republic. To cite Joseph Roth in the "Kapuzinergruft": Austria is a religion. Yes it is, you seem to think we live in a fairytale republic and in fact we are still a hidden monarchy - we are not! Believe me! The thing is we no longer have a problem with our history and our aristocracy and certainly not the Habsburgs BUT we know finally who we are and why we are what we are. because we honour our history we know where we come from, where we stand and where we will go. I know the saying Never say Never but there has to be a huge catastrophe that the Republic will be abolished.

and by the way: yes there is a definite possibility that the British monarchy will no longer exist one day.

Austria has indeed a remarkable history, and I include the republican years too. I shouldn't have doubted your republican pride, I apologize for that.
But I, as a monarchist believe Austria could be better of as a constitutional monarchy. I might be crazy, I might be out of touch but that's me in the royal forums

PS: of course there is always a possibility that the Windsors could be kick out, always

 

[Kit]

Ah hmmm I might have to see if that's a Kindle book.

I just realized that Austrian family is one of the few monarchies left that have the honor to wear white when meeting with the pontiff.

Who is the current heir to Franz Joseph?

FJ's official heir as head of the Imperial House is AD Karl, Otto's son!
The head of his branch I don't know personally, I think Markus Habsburg-Lothringen who owns the Kaiservilla.