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  #161  
Old 12-22-2013, 08:37 PM
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But couldn't they just convert the fine to Euros? Seems unfair to not allow people to use their titles socially. Even more unfair to not be permitted to use one's real name (Von Habsburg vs. just Habsburg).
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  #162  
Old 12-23-2013, 02:55 PM
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Yes of course the government could convert it. But it is simply no big deal here in Austria. The Habsburgs do not care about it, the rest of the Austrian Nobility does not care about it and the Austrian citizens certainly do not care about it. There are more than enough other economic problems calling for a solution with the current financial crisis so nobody thinks of changing the 100 year old constitution when there is absolutely no need or wish for it to be changed.
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  #163  
Old 12-24-2013, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Kit View Post
...the family wanted the old Kaiserhymn to be sung officially and therefore they needed a permission.
The permission of the government was required for them to sing a song at a funeral?
What would have happened if the government refused permission but they sang the song anyway?
This seems more apposite to the former USSR or Russia than to a Western European liberal democratic nation.
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  #164  
Old 12-24-2013, 11:14 AM
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For the requiem because the Austrian government attended it. But this was only pro forma. And rumour told by the media. Of course they were allowed to sing it even without said permission. Nothing would have happened at all. In fact the relationship between the government and AD Karl is quite good. There are no hard feelings now. But I have often wondered about the bad treatment of the family and the strict Habsburg laws installed during the 1.Republic. I still do not fully understand the reasons for it.
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  #165  
Old 12-24-2013, 11:47 AM
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I remember how happy the Prince of Liechtenstein was to hear the unexpected Kaiserhymn.

During the Funerals , on the two first places were sitting the president of Austria and his wife.
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  #166  
Old 12-24-2013, 11:52 AM
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Kit:
I have often wondered if the people of Austria would consider restoring the monarchy to something like the rest of the royals families of the world? Even though I live in the US, I still believe that to a certain degree monarchies are what keep the history of the people alive as that is what and how their countries have been founded all these hundreds of years....it would not be popular here in this country as we started off without a monarchy. Being a history buff I have no problems with monarchies if they are for the people and do their job in developing their country.
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  #167  
Old 12-24-2013, 12:47 PM
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The thing is that the majority of Austrian citizens do not even know that Austria was once a huge Empire. Especially the younger generation does not even care the slightest bit about a monarchy. Austria is now for nearly 100 years Republic and since 1955 a very stable and rich one too. A monarchy was never more unlikely than now. Don't think we will ever be a monarchy again. There is simply no wish for it.
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  #168  
Old 12-25-2013, 10:44 AM
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Kit,
Thank you for your response, I do have a question, aren't the children in school taught about their country's history, the beginnings and to the present? Even here in America as a child I learnt about how this country broke away from the British and what transpired to make it what it is today, what, sometimes I don't even know my country anymore because it sure is very different and difficult from when I was a child, so with all that, aren't the people interested in this country's history? Being without a monarchy for 100 years I can understand now how people would not want one, yet in your country there is such an abundance of history of kings and queens, buildings, art works, food, in fact at one time long time ago I worked as a volunteer on the clothing collection of the Habsburgs here in New York City at a museum that was showing the collection..........this was when I bought a home in Ridgewood NJ from a lady who was in charge of the collection and we became friends and I know about needlework, so she let me become a volunteer and it was one of the highlights of my life to work and actually see these beautiful clothes. I have a big appreciation of history and all the wonderful things that have survived the times. Someday I so want to go to Vienna and hear the opera and the music and eat the rich deserts.

Thank you for all your information!
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  #169  
Old 12-30-2013, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kit View Post
For the requiem because the Austrian government attended it. But this was only pro forma. And rumour told by the media. Of course they were allowed to sing it even without said permission. Nothing would have happened at all. In fact the relationship between the government and AD Karl is quite good. There are no hard feelings now. But I have often wondered about the bad treatment of the family and the strict Habsburg laws installed during the 1.Republic. I still do not fully understand the reasons for it.
Are you sure about the permission? I, too, remember it being said by the press at the time of the funeral but I also remember an interview with President Fischer in which he states that he was surprised to hear the Kaiserhymne. Funnily, just as he said that he was fine with it being played, the flag of the Austrian republic behind him fell down. Of course the President isn't the government but it would be surprising if they didn't tell him about it if they had been asked, IMO.

I quite liked what Cardinal Schönborn said prior to the anthem being sung. He put it in perspective quite nicely.
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  #170  
Old 12-31-2013, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SElizabeth View Post
Kit,
Thank you for your response, I do have a question, aren't the children in school taught about their country's history, the beginnings and to the present? Even here in America as a child I learnt about how this country broke away from the British and what transpired to make it what it is today, what, sometimes I don't even know my country anymore because it sure is very different and difficult from when I was a child, so with all that, aren't the people interested in this country's history? Being without a monarchy for 100 years I can understand now how people would not want one, yet in your country there is such an abundance of history of kings and queens, buildings, art works, food, in fact at one time long time ago I worked as a volunteer on the clothing collection of the Habsburgs here in New York City at a museum that was showing the collection..........this was when I bought a home in Ridgewood NJ from a lady who was in charge of the collection and we became friends and I know about needlework, so she let me become a volunteer and it was one of the highlights of my life to work and actually see these beautiful clothes. I have a big appreciation of history and all the wonderful things that have survived the times. Someday I so want to go to Vienna and hear the opera and the music and eat the rich deserts.

Thank you for all your information!
Yes, Austrian children study history, and Austrians in general tend to be well educated. From everything I gather through multiple sources, however, there appears to be no interest in restoring the monarchy among the people of Austria, except perhaps in a few individuals with close ties to the Habsburgs.

I suppose that yours is really a question of political philosophy and/or economics; there are those who believe that the value of a constitutional monarchy exceeds its cost to the state, and there are those who believe that it doesn't. At this time it seems that a large majority of Austrians fall in the latter camp... to the extent that they even think about the issue, which is really not on the national radar.
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  #171  
Old 12-31-2013, 05:33 PM
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Exactly Claypoint! You have explained it quite well. :-) Plus the fact that not many Austrians know who the current head of the family is. The Habsburgs lead a relatively private life and history classes in school about the House Habsburg -Lothringen usually end with the death of Emperor Karl in Madeira. @SydneyLux As far as I recall the government and PM Faymann expressed their condolences to Karl in private and apparently he asked for the Kaiserhymn to be played at the Requiem which was no problem for all parties involved.
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  #172  
Old 10-25-2015, 11:38 AM
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I can bring insight from the side of Czechs and Slovaks as I was born in Slovakia and now live in Czech republic. I also lived in Vienna for one year but returned back.

From all royal families, Habsburgs are probably in the worst position since their former empire is splintered into many small countries. From those countries only Austria and Hungary have a long and popular tradition of kingdom as only they were well represented politically.

Slovakia was part of Hungary and at the end of 19th century Hungarians misused their political power to try to "erase" identities and languages other than their own as it was seen a threat to the kingdom. What is often forgotten is that in other counrties like Britain, Russia exactly the same thing was happening. In history books this period is usually depicted negatively, the kingdom being backward, slow to reform. So there is nothing good connected to monarchy in Slovakia and Slovaks would never accept a Hungarian king as their own. There is no party for restoration of Monarchy in Slovakia.

Czechs had their kingdom for quite some time before being joined with Austria. But Habsburgs are seen as "foreign" rulers, not respecting Czech interests in the past. People do not care about monarchies or the Habsburg family. There is a party for restoration of monarchy, similarly like in Austria, but with minimal support. If I had voting rights in Czech republic I would probably vote for it.

In general there is a crisis of democracy in the eastern counties, its best seen in Hungary (Victor Orban firmly in power, main oposition Jobbik a radical nationalist party), then Slovakia (Robert Fico has also a sole party in power, not going to change soon). In Czech republic no single party has managed to grab power yet. The main problem is political parties functioning like mafia - with the purpose of gaining power and using it to fund their existence (from state funds) and to maintain it (using dirty means) not really caring about real problems. People see it but every new party turns out to be the same. In some countries like Russia it was solved in autocratic way by electing Putin, who does not betray Russia and in exchange he gets wide support. I do not see how this problem can be resolved well here. This is a chance for a pro monarchy party to present a different solution where the political power is party held by a monarch.

The highest chance for restoration is in Austria or Hungary, but even there its very small, only theoretical. Nothing happens without approval of parliament and its extremely unlikely a pro monarchy restoration party makes it in there. Although if they managed to restore monarchy in one of the countries with positive results, it could result in others accepting them in a decade or so.

However we are speaking about a constitutional monarchy. But due to the former empire being splintered, many problems would arise - common currency? common army? some kind of limited common government (finance, foreign affairs, defense)? have common upper house of parliament in Vienna? With so many nationalities you can bet they wouldn't agree on anything. Btw the parliament in Vienna was built for the monarchy and they have the historical part of it that looks really nice (not sure its used) - http://www.digico.biz/public/images/...rliament_2.jpg, the other part looks very socialist. http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...rian-p-006.jpg

I can just tell that people may be more willing to cede power to a parliament representing a relatively small region (the monarchy) rather than the EU. People are pretty hostile to giving the EU any more power, and in my opinion its time to reduce the powers of the EU and cede them back. In hindsight I think the decision to accept euro in Slovakia was a mistake and we may have to leave it in the future. In Czech republic there is absolutely no chance of accepting euro. People see the incompetence of the EU and want its influence reduced. With the current migration crissis in the EU many people would even vote to leave the EU. If this problem is not resolved very soon (it doesn't look so) the end of EU may be near.
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