Restoration of Monarchy in Austria


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Well, I don't think 80% of the Austrian population is strictly republican. The poll in question probably contained the option of saying not sure/I don't know like most monarchy restoration/continuing support polls. I suspect that republicanism is probably around in the 50s or 60s percentage-wise, I know that's still a majority in favor of the Republic but I think 80% is a bit much especially in recent years. Honestly, in my opinion, if there was a referendum monarchy would be in the mid-twenties to low thirties percentage wise while the rest goes to the Republic. Us monarchists would still loose but there is still a significant portion of the Austrian population that be welcome to the idea.

As for the attitudes of the Habsburgs themselves, I honestly think they'd accept the throne in the event of a restoration. Many members of the family are still involved in the country along with former territories of the Austro-Hungarian Empire after all. Yeah, sure they're quiet and don't talk about restoration much but isn't that what a proper pretender should do, be quiet and be involved in the affairs and culture of the nation. I mean I don't see why they wouldn't, Archduke Karl von Habsburg was trying to take after his father and he tried to regain the throne for a while, so the current head of the dynasty would probably be seeing himself as completing one of his father's goals if he accepts, in my personal opinion. Plus constitutional monarchies tend to work out most of the time and do a good amount of good and stability, who doesn't want to serve their country?

As for Hungary, it was just a personal fun idea of mine, even I don't expect Hungary to really reunify with Austria and especially under their current prime minister. Although, there are a good number of Hungarian monarchists from what I've heard and chance are nostalgia will show up in case of a restoration in Austria, so who knows?

So let's try to stay optimistic people, work hard and everything else.

-Frozen Royalist
 
Austria, having previously been the ONLY 'Multi-lingual/cultural' Empire in Europe since the Roman Empire, seems content to be subsumed into the current 'proto Empire' forming in Mainland Europe [the EU]...
Its past greatness is forgotten, not least amongst its own people..
 
Do you think the Habsburg monarchy is more likely to be restored in Hungary though rather than in Austria ? Would the Hungarians accept. “German” ruling family ?
Several members of the Habsburg family, including the brother of Archduke Karl, lives in Hungary and seem to consider themselves Hungarian. Some members of the Palatine branch have stressed in interviews that they've had their primary residence in the country since the early 1800s with the natural exception of the Communist years of course. One of them is the Hungarian ambassador to the Holy See. All this seems to me to show that they consider themselves Hungarian and that at least the Hungarian state seem to think they have a place in the country.
 
Austria, having previously been the ONLY 'Multi-lingual/cultural' Empire in Europe since the Roman Empire, seems content to be subsumed into the current 'proto Empire' forming in Mainland Europe [the EU]...
Its past greatness is forgotten, not least amongst its own people..

Austria is not at all subsumed into the EU and is a proud, independent state which is, alike Sweden, Finland, Ireland and Cyprus NO member of NATO. Because Austria is in the Eurozone and has an AAA-rating like the Netherlands, Finland and Luxembourg, they can punch above their weight thanks to having influence in international gremia.

One can dwell in thoughts of a glorious empire lost where once the double-headed eagle ruled. One can also be realistic and try to make the best for Austria and the Austrians. Call it subsuming. I call it common sense. It has resulted in an über-wealthy country which ticks all possible boxes on stability, prosperity, security and quality.

Felix Austria it was under the Emperors. Felix Austria it still is, an island of stability in a region which saw lots of dramas.
 
Austria, like other countries which lost their monarchies in 1918, went through many trials and tribulations (in the 1930s & 40s in particular) before emerging as a modern and successful European state.



They seem to have learned that in the modern world, greatness has nothing to do with lording it over other peoples in an Empire and everything to do with creating a society at home with the characteristics that Duc et Pair mentions and participating in an international order which promotes the same values. Other former "Empires" would do well to learn from their example.



While some countries have difficulties moving on from past "glories", others have perhaps overreacted in wanting to draw a line between past & present. Now that a century has elapsed since the disintegration of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, it does seem about time that the Habsburg Law & issues arising from it were laid to rest once and for all.
 
Austria, like other countries which lost their monarchies in 1918, went through many trials and tribulations (in the 1930s & 40s in particular) before emerging as a modern and successful European state.



They seem to have learned that in the modern world, greatness has nothing to do with lording it over other peoples in an Empire and everything to do with creating a society at home with the characteristics that Duc et Pair mentions and participating in an international order which promotes the same values. Other former "Empires" would do well to learn from their example.



While some countries have difficulties moving on from past "glories", others have perhaps overreacted in wanting to draw a line between past & present. Now that a century has elapsed since the disintegration of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, it does seem about time that the Habsburg Law & issues arising from it were laid to rest once and for all.

I for one agree with you, the Habsburg Law needs to go. I honestly think the law doesn't serve a purpose anymore, is a waste of words and paper and is generally absurd when you think about it. I never expected for the restored Habsburg monarchy to regain all of its territories, just Austria and maybe, just maybe (yes it's the world's biggest maybe), Hungary and South Tyrol.

I mean what would a restored Austrian monarchy threaten? NATO, the EU, and the UN would all come down on Austria quicker than a sun if they tried to return to territorial imperialism. The Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, and Bosnia-Herzegovina are all firmly in favor of remaining independent and there is no way that Serbia, Romania, Poland, and Ukraine would cede any territory.

A restored Austrian monarchy would definitely be ceremonial and probably be as powerful as the Japanese and Swedish monarchies, essentially the Chancellor would probably gain even more power assuming if the President isn't a figurehead I don't know. There is no way the nationalists in the former territories of the Habsburg monarchy would allow a restored Habsburg monarch to have any political powers.

Maybe getting rid of Law won't make much of a difference for the restoration in the end but it is still absurd none the less.

-Frozen Royalist

Here are some ideas for a Habsburg Austria flag
 

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From other areas of the former empire.

There was a poll from the Czech Republic back in October of this year with 10% of the population in favor of a constitutional monarchy and 3% in favor of an absolute monarchy, at least constitutional has more support than absolute. This has to do with the Austrian Imperial Royal Family in regard to the poll so I decided to put the results here. 3% wasn't sure, 38% was a parliamentary republic and 35% was a presidential republic.

-Frozen Royalist

https://www.irozhlas.cz/zpravy-domo...n-1918-100-let-prvni-republika_1810031330_ako
 
It was a small enough march I'm not sure if there's any real appetite for a monarchy in the Czech Republic 101 years on after the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian Empire .
 
I for one agree with you, the Habsburg Law needs to go. I honestly think the law doesn't serve a purpose anymore, is a waste of words and paper and is generally absurd when you think about it. I never expected for the restored Habsburg monarchy to regain all of its territories, just Austria and maybe, just maybe (yes it's the world's biggest maybe), Hungary and South Tyrol.

I mean what would a restored Austrian monarchy threaten? NATO, the EU, and the UN would all come down on Austria quicker than a sun if they tried to return to territorial imperialism. The Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, and Bosnia-Herzegovina are all firmly in favor of remaining independent and there is no way that Serbia, Romania, Poland, and Ukraine would cede any territory.

A restored Austrian monarchy would definitely be ceremonial and probably be as powerful as the Japanese and Swedish monarchies, essentially the Chancellor would probably gain even more power assuming if the President isn't a figurehead I don't know. There is no way the nationalists in the former territories of the Habsburg monarchy would allow a restored Habsburg monarch to have any political powers.

Maybe getting rid of Law won't make much of a difference for the restoration in the end but it is still absurd none the less.

-Frozen Royalist

Here are some ideas for a Habsburg Austria flag

These are particularly ugly flags. Keep it the current one. It is based on the ensign used by the Kaiserliche und Königliche Kriegsmarine since 1786, has a long imperial history and is immediately recognizable as Austria's flag.

images
 
I'd love to see the restoration of the Hapsburgs as Emperors of Austria. To have the Hofburg & Schonbrunn lived in again would be wonderful. I understand that this is probably a pipe dream:sad:
 
If Archduke Karl would become Emperor Karl II, do you think that he would have a coronation?
 
If Archduke Karl would become Emperor Karl II, do you think that he would have a coronation?


That is a good question: will Karl become emperor? Because his reign is already under attack by his own brother Georg, who (rightfully) claims that according to the laws that were in place till 1918, Karl's marriage to Franchesca Thyssen-Bornemizsa was not equal, while his with Eilika von Oldenburg is. Thus Karl's children have no right to inherit, but his children have...

The fact that even 100 years after the fall of the empire the Habsburg take such things seriously is proven by Franchesca, who though having been during her marriage the wife of the heir, was not made a member of the Sternkreuz-order, when rightfully she should have inherited the highest rank of the order at Regina von Habsburg's death. But as she didn't fulfill the question of being of pure noble ascent back to all of her great-grandparents, she wasn't regarded as fitting.

So as long as the family cannot agree on rules fit for our century, how can they be fit for a representation of modern people?
 
I don't want to be Debbie Downer here but I highly doubt that we'd ever see a Habsburg restoration in Austria and definitely not one in Czechia where the memories of centuries of subjugation would be to hard to overcome for a potential candidate. The Czechs would never choose a German speaking head of state.
 
If Archduke Karl would become Emperor Karl II, do you think that he would have a coronation?


I don't think so. I think they would show the world that the monarchy is not cobwebbed in ancient rituals but can go with the flow of the changing times. A coronation is also seen as an (unacceptable) infringement of the strict separation of Church and State in continental monarchies.
 
That is a good question: will Karl become emperor? Because his reign is already under attack by his own brother Georg, who (rightfully) claims that according to the laws that were in place till 1918, Karl's marriage to Franchesca Thyssen-Bornemizsa was not equal, while his with Eilika von Oldenburg is. Thus Karl's children have no right to inherit, but his children have...


I think, the quarrels of the dethroned families about the rightful heir are funny. It is not on them to decide, if and who will return to the throne - it would be the choice of the people. And this insisting on equal marriage does make them not look good...
 
I highly doubt that we ever see restoration in Austria. Austria has been republic already 101 years. After such time it is pretty unlikely to happen. Austria is too republican mind nation that it could accept monarchs. And Czechia is even more unlikely. The country is very republican and modern day Czechoslovakia hasn't seen monarchs while being independent. And Czechs never would accept someone German speaking head of state, king or president. And reason you can find from history. Hungary is bit more plausible but there I can't see any restoration.


And even if Habsburgs return as head of state, they probably would be kings not emperors when Austria is not very markable country.
 
I highly doubt that we ever see restoration in Austria. Austria has been republic already 101 years. After such time it is pretty unlikely to happen. Austria is too republican mind nation that it could accept monarchs. And Czechia is even more unlikely. The country is very republican and modern day Czechoslovakia hasn't seen monarchs while being independent. And Czechs never would accept someone German speaking head of state, king or president. And reason you can find from history. Hungary is bit more plausible but there I can't see any restoration.


And even if Habsburgs return as head of state, they probably would be kings not emperors when Austria is not very markable country.

They should definitely be emperors. That's the old traditional title. King of Austria sounds as weird as Emperor of Great Britain. The old titles have the weight of history behind them. The Hapsburgs after all are no parvenus.
 
They were technically kings of Hungary until the 1940s, but I get the impression that they think of themselves as being Austrian. I can't see a restoration happening, though, not after all this time.
 
As much as i would love to see Austria being a Monarchy again and Hofburg and Schönbrunn become REAL royal palaces again, we have to be realistic. The chance of it ever happen is 0,0001 %. I simply can’t imagine that there is much public support for a monarchy there. It’s hardly talked about in schools as something ”actual” so the generations of today and tomorrow is (and rightfully so) being brought up with the knowledge that the Empire is a part of their long gone history but that the republic is their ”now” and their ”tomorrow”.

And the Habsburg-generation of today is a joke, compared to their ancestors. At least the Habsburg-Lorraine branch. Karl and Georg still arguing about who is the rightful heir to a monarchy that doesn’t exist since 1918, because the elder happened to marry someone who according to the old rules is not royal enough is quite telling.... If they truly belive that they (and not the citizens of Austria) will choose who to reign in case of monarchy being reinstated and that the rules pre-1918 should be applied to a modern monarchy in the 2020:s (semi-salic sucession, forcing your children to marry other royals to be allowed to stay in the line of sucession etc) then it just proves that none of them is fit to reign...

I don’t know much about the other Habsburg-branches except Lorenz, Amedeo, Maximilian and Joachim of Belgium (who according to the old rules are nr 4, 5, 6 and 7 in the austrian line of sucession or perhaps 3, 4, 5 and 6 if we exclude Karl’s son Ferdinand-Zvonimir), so i won’t say too much, but from the Habsburg-Lorraine branch, the last one being fit to reign and who understood both his history and the modern time was Crown Prince Otto.
 
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It is true. It would be quite interesting to see Hofburg once again inhabited by the Habsburg Family.
But unfortunately, this is unlikely to happen.
 
And the Habsburg-generation of today is a joke, compared to their ancestors. At least the Habsburg-Lorraine branch. Karl and Georg still arguing about who is the rightful heir to a monarchy that doesn’t exist since 1918, because the elder happened to marry someone who according to the old rules is not royal enough is quite telling.... If they truly belive that they (and not the citizens of Austria) will choose who to reign in case of monarchy being reinstated and that the rules pre-1918 should be applied to a modern monarchy in the 2020:s (semi-salic sucession, forcing your children to marry other royals to be allowed to stay in the line of sucession etc) then it just proves that none of them is fit to reign...

I don’t know much about the other Habsburg-branches except Lorenz, Amedeo, Maximilian and Joachim of Belgium (who according to the old rules are nr 4, 5, 6 and 7 in the austrian line of sucession or perhaps 3, 4, 5 and 6 if we exclude Karl’s son Ferdinand-Zvonimir), so i won’t say too much, but from the Habsburg-Lorraine branch, the last one being fit to reign and who understood both his history and the modern time was Crown Prince Otto.

The major breach is between the main line (Karl & Georg) and the Este branch (Archdukes Lorenz, Gerhard, & Martin). Karl and Georg seem largely distanced from the rest of their cousins as well. As you remarked, the cause for the dispute is Karl's marriage to Francesca - which is now basically over, but they seem to be happy with the status quo.

Karl and Francesca's children may seem like a joke, but they are more wealthy than their cousins. If they ever decided to use their $$$ to promote a restoration, or at least to be more present in Austrian cultural life, then they could certainly make an impact.
 
I agree a restoration in Austria seems to be unlikely. When I visited Vienna last in 2014, I noticed that the local businesses loved linking themselves to Empress Sisi but I can imagine that was more for tourism or marketing benefits rather than being genuinely keen in keeping up the country's imperial heritage. There are certainly plenty of signs of the old empire, but I remember speaking to an Austrian who said that he enjoys following the British royal family but he doesn't particularly want his "own" royal/imperial family back since it would be too complicated for the country. I don't know what the view is like in the rest of Austria since he was a fairly young Viennese businessman, but I can imagine it would be similar. I've noticed that in a lot of countries that had famous monarchies enjoy following other current royal families but are less enthusiastic about their own, e.g. France. (However, I do remember seeing lots of coverage on the Count of Paris and his family in the local magazines when I went to the South West.)
 
I agree a restoration in Austria seems to be unlikely. When I visited Vienna last in 2014, I noticed that the local businesses loved linking themselves to Empress Sisi but I can imagine that was more for tourism or marketing benefits rather than being genuinely keen in keeping up the country's imperial heritage. There are certainly plenty of signs of the old empire, but I remember speaking to an Austrian who said that he enjoys following the British royal family but he doesn't particularly want his "own" royal/imperial family back since it would be too complicated for the country. I don't know what the view is like in the rest of Austria since he was a fairly young Viennese businessman, but I can imagine it would be similar. I've noticed that in a lot of countries that had famous monarchies enjoy following other current royal families but are less enthusiastic about their own, e.g. France. (However, I do remember seeing lots of coverage on the Count of Paris and his family in the local magazines when I went to the South West.)

What I have noticed is that , in most Catholic countries that were formerly monarchies such as Portugal, France, Austria, Italy and, I would add Brazil too, the movements advocating the return of the monarchy seem to be frequently associated with far-right, ultra-conservative or reactionary groups. They project and advocate a model of monarchy that is very different from the liberal , constitutional monarchies of northern /northwestern Europe or even the modern Spanish monarchy, which was restored by a fascist regime , but nonetheless then reinvented itself as a democratic monarchy.

I think that kind of association turns many potential monarchists off and hurts the cause of restoration in those countries.
 
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And the Habsburg-generation of today is a joke, compared to their ancestors. At least the Habsburg-Lorraine branch. Karl and Georg still arguing about who is the rightful heir to a monarchy that doesn’t exist since 1918, because the elder happened to marry someone who according to the old rules is not royal enough is quite telling....

The major breach is between the main line (Karl & Georg) and the Este branch (Archdukes Lorenz, Gerhard, & Martin). Karl and Georg seem largely distanced from the rest of their cousins as well. As you remarked, the cause for the dispute is Karl's marriage to Francesca - which is now basically over, but they seem to be happy with the status quo.

If the breach has continued up to this moment, there surely must be other causes at play? No matter their stances on equal marriage in 1993, Lorenz as of 2014 was happy to see his eldest son marry a mere "Nobile", and Gerhard is now himself married to a commoner.


If they truly belive that they (and not the citizens of Austria) will choose who to reign in case of monarchy being reinstated and that the rules pre-1918 should be applied to a modern monarchy in the 2020:s (semi-salic sucession, forcing your children to marry other royals to be allowed to stay in the line of sucession etc) then it just proves that none of them is fit to reign...

I don’t know much about the other Habsburg-branches except Lorenz, Amedeo, Maximilian and Joachim of Belgium (who according to the old rules are nr 4, 5, 6 and 7 in the austrian line of sucession or perhaps 3, 4, 5 and 6 if we exclude Karl’s son Ferdinand-Zvonimir), so i won’t say too much, but from the Habsburg-Lorraine branch, the last one being fit to reign and who understood both his history and the modern time was Crown Prince Otto.

Regarding belief in old semi-Salic rules, I wonder if that is the position taken by Lorenz. He accepted becoming a Prince of Belgium and also joined the royal council of Margareta, the then crown princess of the Romanian royal family. From my understanding, both arrangements would be difficult for a believer in semi-Salic or Salic rules to accept.
 
What I have noticed is that , in most Catholic countries that were formerly monarchies such as Portugal, France, Austria, Italy and, I would add Brazil too, the movements advocating the return of the monarchy seem to be frequently associated with far-right, ultra-conservative or reactionary groups. They project and advocate a model of monarchy that is very different from the liberal , constitutional monarchies of northern /northwestern Europe or even the modern Spanish monarchy, which was restored by a fascist regime , but nonetheless then reinvented itself as a democratic monarchy.

I think that kind of association turns many potential monarchists off and hurts the cause of restoration in those countries.

Yes, I've seen this pattern too. Louis Alphonse, the Duke of Anjou, is a member of the Vox movement, a Spanish right-wing political group and was seen at the re-burial of Franco (though probably more as his great-grandson rather than because of his political views) and IIRC he's supported other right-wing and fascist movements in the past. Even here in the UK, where we've always had a royal family - one that is probably the world's most famous - there is still a viewpoint that royalists and supporters of right-wing politics are connected. Even when I have conversations with people offline about the royals and say that I'm interested in them, I often get a few eyebrows raised if the person I'm talking to doesn't know me well. Whilst this is true for some, there are a lot of royal watchers with more liberal or left-wing views (myself included), but the royalist+right-wing rhetoric is still there even here. And back to Austria; given the fact that right-wing parties are probably a touchy subject due to the Nazi occupation, it's probably not something a lot of Austrians would want to encourage.
(I wonder if there are any Austrians here who could vouch or disagree with this?)
 
Is there any chance of restoring the monarchy in Austria?
 
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