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  #81  
Old 07-18-2011, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Kit View Post
...Yes the Austrian aristrocracy still exists, yes they are still very proud and many of them very, very rich and they have a great network among themselves. But they don't deal with the Austrian policy...
Thank you, Kit, for clearing the situation.
Is it correct that the Austrian aristocrats are forbiddent to become politicians? Can an aristocrat become a member of government, for example?
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Old 07-18-2011, 01:36 AM
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Hi Kasumi. I am sure Kit will clarify this better than me. But meanwhile what I know is that Austria does not recognize any official aristocracy, titles and so on. So as long as you are a citizen I don't think there is any problem to run for office.
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  #83  
Old 07-18-2011, 02:23 AM
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The fact the Habsburgs are catholics does not mean in the case of Restoration the Vatican rules the country.
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  #84  
Old 07-18-2011, 04:18 AM
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Constitutional monarchy sucks! I would rather have a republic than a constitutional monarchy, because constitutional monarchy means that the King would have to do as he is told, and a King can't be told what to do, like the Pope can't be told what to do, that would mean the Emperor would have to sign an abortion law or Euthanasia law against his will and Catholic conscience, and NO Habsburg will ever do that!
Constitutional monarchy just makes a mockery of the monarchy, it shows how for all the power that the monarch may have it's the parliament that controls them and that is an ideology greatly loved by the same Freemasons who began the anti-monarchists campaign with the French Revolution. The monarchy can be restored if a few big heads such as Karl II von Habsburg takes the Archbishop of Vienna and a few other high Bishops and besiege themselves withing the Habsburg Palace in Vienna, taking with them loyalists, that would be the greatest advancement. It sounds crazy but isn't that's how monarchy was overthrown, now it's time for Republicanism to go to Hell where it belongs.
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  #85  
Old 07-18-2011, 05:31 AM
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Please note that the posts about Crown Prince Rudolf have been moved to the following thread:
Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria (1858-1889) (and Mayerling)
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  #86  
Old 07-18-2011, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Johann Salvator View Post
Hi Kasumi. I am sure Kit will clarify this better than me. But meanwhile what I know is that Austria does not recognize any official aristocracy, titles and so on. So as long as you are a citizen I don't think there is any problem to run for office.


That goes for the former Ruling Family as well but only since less then two months.It was only this spring of 2011 that the Austrian Parliament abolished a Law prohibiting Members of the former Reigning House to participate in political elections.Now they are allowed,all Habsburgers could run for President of Austria.It was against EU Law to exclude them,and if Austria wants to have the benefits of being a EU member state,then they also have to live by its rules in respect to human rights....Nevertheless,it took them years...Never mind,it's done,and just in time for Archduke Otto to witness before his demise.

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  #87  
Old 07-18-2011, 06:07 AM
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In a recession, one of the arguments for and against a monarchy concerns the financial cost. Is it cheaper to have a royal court, or to have a (sometimes a bit colourless) head of state ?

Very recently, the British royals have begun to count the pennies :-)

Not because they don't have enough pennies, but there is a demand for transparency about the cost of the monachy.

Some details have started to appear on the (new) Royal website....
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  #88  
Old 07-18-2011, 07:42 AM
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No,not because of transparancy,but because the fool of the day at Downingstreet says so to gain votes and look popular,it's saving their behind,not HM savings.

And as they are always so on the ready to call for transparancy and reduction,then it's high time there indeed IS more transparancy on themselves,the politicians and their goodies from crap like News of the World and the like.

The Monarchy as such is one of the Major industries of the UK,billions of revenue from tourism alone just for having Aunt Lillybeth and her family.

Any non-discussion about costs of the Monarchy go invalid compared to what the revenues are,but no-one ever mentions that,that doesn't sell,that doesn't gain votes in the next elections...So cheap a folk is hard to find!Cheap as in bringing the issue up thinking the world is daft and without a brain to think for their own.

Anyway,back to the topic.A Monarchy radiates such interest,both domestic and abroad that any Monarchy is a major source of revenue.

That would be the same was the House of Habsburg restored,absolutely,no doubt in my mind.And the elegant buildings and streets of Vienna once more get back their grandeur and finesse added with an Imperial twist.

Keeping in mind that only the Monarch,his/her spouse and the Heir receive an apanage,it is safe to say a Monarchy is less costly then any what's it called,republic...There people cough up for any guy leaving office every 4 or 8 years.Means,many guys and even more coughs,and in some states a lot of security staff for the rest of their lives as well as all the perks,whereas with a Monarchy our style,one wouldn't have these outrageous shows of selfimportance by induviduals not used nor born nor ever ment to be in the Offices of Heads of State...Could name a few of these republics if nessecary..but it doesn't take much to figur that one out .......
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  #89  
Old 07-18-2011, 08:52 AM
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If the members of the Imperial Family enters politics or even become candidates in the elections they can't really do a work of advocy for a Constittutional monarchy.
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  #90  
Old 07-18-2011, 09:19 AM
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Lucien, I enjoyed that !

There is one part of a certain ex-monarchy (of sorts) which did not have to spend much to get themselves a ready-made setup for their Republic.

Can you guess which ?
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  #91  
Old 07-18-2011, 09:50 AM
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That goes for the former Ruling Family as well but only since less then two months.It was only this spring of 2011 that the Austrian Parliament abolished a Law prohibiting Members of the former Reigning House to participate in political elections.Now they are allowed,all Habsburgers could run for President of Austria.It was against EU Law to exclude them,and if Austria wants to have the benefits of being a EU member state,then they also have to live by its rules in respect to human rights....Nevertheless,it took them years...Never mind,it's done,and just in time for Archduke Otto to witness before his demise.
That's absolutely correct!
This was a part of the so called Habsburg-laws made in 1919 cause the Austrian politicans were scared that the Habsburgs would try to take over again and abolish the Republic.
Nowadays less than 2 per cent of the Austrian population want a monarchy or wouldn't mind to have one so the chances of the Habsburgs taking over again and restaurating the monarchy are pretty bad ;-) What's more they or to be more specific AD Karl as head of the house don't even want to take over so this discussion is really just hypothetical. And the Republic is by now strong enough to even have a member of the former Imperial family as President without any fears that the monarchy will be restaured again. It is by now nearly impossible to achieve a monarchy against the vote of the Austrian citizens and without consent of the Austrian Parliament. And IF it would be accomplished then it would be a totally totalitarian regime which nobody wants again and NOT a constitutional monarchy.
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  #92  
Old 07-18-2011, 09:54 AM
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i Kasumi. I am sure Kit will clarify this better than me. But meanwhile what I know is that Austria does not recognize any official aristocracy, titles and so on. So as long as you are a citizen I don't think there is any problem to run for office.
yep that's correct!

Quote:
The fact the Habsburgs are catholics does not mean in the case of Restoration the Vatican rules the country.
Couldn't agree more. I am sorry but just the thought of the Vatican taking over is hilarious, the funniest thing I have ever heard. And by the way the Catholic Church doesn't deal with Austrian Policy since 1938. Kardinal Knig made sure of that, we already had a Catholic Regime between 1934-38 and nobody wants this ever again.
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  #93  
Old 07-18-2011, 05:17 PM
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In this moment the number of royalists in Austria is really tiny but a campaign of advocacy well prepared could bring to a real change in the next years.Archduke Karl is quite respected in Austria and the importance of the Habsburg is largely accepted.
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  #94  
Old 07-18-2011, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by lucien View Post
No,not because of transparancy,but because the fool of the day at Downingstreet says so to gain votes and look popular,it's saving their behind,not HM savings...

...There people cough up for any guy leaving office every 4 or 8 years.Means,many guys and even more coughs,and in some states a lot of security staff for the rest of their lives as well as all the perks,whereas with a Monarchy our style,one wouldn't have these outrageous shows of selfimportance by induviduals not used nor born nor ever ment to be in the Offices of Heads of State...Could name a few of these republics if nessecary..but it doesn't take much to figur that one out .......
Simply brilliant! It was pleasure to read this

If I could humbly add that I don't think that when talking about institutions of the State money should be brought up as a reason to change.
If I propose a change from monarchy to republic or the other way around I shouldn't do it because is cheaper.

Finally, I believe that when there is transparency and a true sense of duty towards ones people, a constitutional monarchy can cost the same or even less than a republic. Presidents can fall into vain expenses just for their ego while doing very little for the image of their country. While a monarch will always be more recognizable and just by birth will not have the need/want to start a personality cult.
Will a British president and family expend less money in security (for the rest of their lives and adding)? Will a Spanish president live in a more humble palace than La Zarzuela? Will a Dutch president not host a state dinner at the Royal Palace of Amsterdam for a foreign visitor?
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
In a recession, one of the arguments for and against a monarchy concerns the financial cost. Is it cheaper to have a royal court, or to have a (sometimes a bit colourless) head of state ?
To avoid confussion. Royal courts don't exist anymore. We should even clarify that one thing is a Royal Family and another a Royal House. The latter receives financial support from the State, it constitutes very few people and they have to work for it.
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  #96  
Old 07-19-2011, 09:28 AM
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Archduke Karl is quite respected in Austria and the importance of the Habsburg is largely accepted.
I am sorry but AD KARL is NOT well respected in Austria, neither by the population nor by the politicans. Many Austrians didn't even know his father till the funeral on Saturday. AD Karl has made several mistakes during his short-lived political career (World Vision scandal, etc.) and is generally seen as very conservative, illusional and snobbish and not half the man his father used to be.
If the name Habsburg and his glorious history is accepted, then because of Emperor FJ and Empress Elizabeth who are still worshipped especially in Bad Ischl where FJs birthday is celebrated every year. Really impressive by the way with a huge ball at the end of the day which also the Austrian Aristocracy attends.The descendants of Emperor Karl and especially AD Karl as head of the family are either ignored or heavily critisized, especially in case of AD Karl.
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  #97  
Old 07-19-2011, 09:42 AM
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Why do they critisize Archduke Karl?
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:51 AM
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Why do they critisize Archduke Karl?
There were or still are several reasons. First of all the great majority of the Austrian Population doesn't even know him or didn't know his father till the Funeral on Sunday. All the Habsburgs after Emperor FJ were pretty easily forgotten especially by the younger generation including Emperor Karl. Most Austrians still claim FJ was the last Emperor. (I also wonder about this myself - don't they sleep during history lessons in school ??? ;-) This is by the way one of the main reasons why there won't be a Restauration of the Monarchy in Austria. And as far as those who know who he is are concerned: most of the incidents happened when I was still a child so I don't remember exactly but he worked part-time as a showmaster on national TV station with a show "Who is who" which was a total flop. Then he started a short-lived political career for the Austrian VP in the European Parliament but this wasn't very successful too. I think he got kicked out, afterwards he founded his own party but he didn't get enough votes to enter the European Parliament. I remember he began studying in 1986 but he still hasn't achieved his degree. Then I remember he wanted to bring a Tiara owned by Empress Zita over the Swiss frontier to Austria without paying customs. Needless to say he was caught and heavily criticised for trying this. And then there was a scandal about donations to the World Vision Foundation that were embezzled either by him personally or by people from his entourage. You should google it I can't remember exactly.
Then he seems to be nice and he certainly is a good father to his children but he is a snob in certain aspects, he has certain conservative views about himself and his position within the family. I would also add concering certain intellectual qualities he will never live up to his father's model.
Then there are the several branches within the family who don't like him, don't accept his marriage and certainly don't accept his position as head of the family. Especially the descendants of Emperor FJ are not on speaking-tearms with him. AD Karl has also made several remarks especially about CP Rudolph in the past which were just wrong.
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Old 07-20-2011, 10:00 AM
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Do Austrians desire that their monarchy return? Is this a popular sentiment in Austria today?
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Old 07-20-2011, 10:35 AM
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Do Austrians desire that their monarchy return? Is this a popular sentiment in Austria today?
No! Absolutely not. We are quite happy with our Republic. So no need to change that. The time for monarchy is definitely over in Austria.
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