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  #41  
Old 06-03-2009, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Knight of the (Toison d' Or) translation gulden vlies ??
Knight of the Golden Fleece.
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  #42  
Old 12-13-2009, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
As to the Este branch, much as I would like to see a princely coupling, the pressure must be on poor Amadeo to make a match that will conform to his father's prejudices.
Yes, poor Amedeo. Perhaps Maria-Annunciata or Marie-Astrid von und zu Liechtenstein? Although I imagine that they know each other very well already through their Habsbourg-Nassau cousins (the children of AD Carl Christian and Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg)... not to mention that royal and noble circles in Belgium are very small and tight, so everybody knows everybody else. Oh, well. Good luck to him.
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  #43  
Old 12-14-2009, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by claypoint2 View Post
Yes, poor Amedeo. Perhaps Maria-Annunciata or Marie-Astrid von und zu Liechtenstein? Although I imagine that they know each other very well already through their Habsbourg-Nassau cousins (the children of AD Carl Christian and Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg)... not to mention that royal and noble circles in Belgium are very small and tight, so everybody knows everybody else. Oh, well. Good luck to him.
One of the Princess of Thurn und Taxis would be a good match, or Princess Theodara of Greece. Princess Marie of Bavaria is another one.
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  #44  
Old 12-14-2009, 05:59 AM
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I suppose Alix de Ligne and him would be a nice match, dynastically speaking. And it would be good for the belgian RF to have another Belgian princess in their midst. On the downside, she is from Wallonia of course and she might not speak Dutch very well.
When the time is right I am sure AD Amedeo will marry somebody appropriate, it doesn't have to be a brilliant match like his father, but a Limburg-Stirum at the very least .

Still, these are his parents requirements, as said above according to the family laws he can marry any christian woman and keep his 'rights'.

---
More match making can be done in this thread btw.
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  #45  
Old 01-13-2010, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by claypoint2 View Post
Yes, poor Amedeo. Perhaps Maria-Annunciata or Marie-Astrid von und zu Liechtenstein? Although I imagine that they know each other very well already through their Habsbourg-Nassau cousins (the children of AD Carl Christian and Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg)... not to mention that royal and noble circles in Belgium are very small and tight, so everybody knows everybody else. Oh, well. Good luck to him.
You forget that Maria-Anunciata and Marie-Astrid are also his cousins. He isn't just related to the Habsbourg/Nassau families. Anunciata and Astrid are the granddaughters of Grand Duchess Josephine-Charlotte who is the sister of Amedeo's grandfather. They have been raised as cousins and are very close. I sincerely doubt they would ever consider each other as potential partners.
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  #46  
Old 01-14-2011, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn
Today the herediary Count Neipperg is married to Archduchess Andrea of Austria, eldest child of Otto von Habsburg and the late Archduchess Regina.
And not to forget the other Archduchess, Marie Louise, the granddaughter of Maria-Theresia who married her Neipperg as well...
Nepperg family was also a mediatized one,but unfortunately it was left out in the list of acceptable families for marriages with Habsburgs from 19th century...

In the end everything comes to it's own place,just like these marriages
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  #47  
Old 01-15-2011, 06:07 PM
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The Neippergs were Counts of the Holy Empire from 1726 and mediatised into the Kingdom of Württemberg in 1806. By definition, the mediatised Neippergs would have been just as "equal" in the marriage stakes as any other mediatised comital house, or was there some factor which was held against them?

ETA.. OK I've discovered why the Habsburgs didn't consider the Neippergs to be equal although they were a mediatised house.

In 1900 Emperor Franz Josef signed a House Law which listed the conditions for an acceptable equal marriage:
1. a member of a princely house that had the right of Ebenbürtigkeit according to article 14 of the Act of German Confederation[1815] [ie, the mediatised houses]; and...
2. in accordance with the 1825 Act of the Emperor Franz I; and
3. who were mentioned by name in the list attached to the [1900] declaration.

Quite simply, despite being mediatised and therefore "equal", the Neippergs weren't princely, weren't on the list, and were therefore, in Habsburg eyes, unequal.

There was a further article stating that the (other) house must have family laws which held that Ebenbürtigkeit was a requirement for an equal marriage, and failing that, a potential Imperial spouse must demonstrate uninterrupted nobility for 300 years together with other complex and exacting conditions relating to the nobility of 16 direct ancestors, 8 paternal and 8 maternal.

I assume the 1900 House Law reinforced the Neipperg's equal-but-unequal status which may have been in place since at least 1825.

reference: House Law of the Austrian Imperial Family at heraldica.org
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  #48  
Old 01-15-2011, 11:18 PM
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I wonder if these clauses could clash. For instance if an Archduke had wanted to marry the daughter of Emperor Wilhelm of Germany, where her mothers grandmother was a mere Countess Danneskjold.
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  #49  
Old 01-16-2011, 05:11 AM
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As a countess she fulfilled the required point of being "noble" - it didin't mean that the ancestors had to be Royal but noble - which a countess is, of course.
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  #50  
Old 01-16-2011, 05:50 AM
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Further to "The List" of Mediatised Princely Houses which the Habsburgs considered as acceptable marriage partners, here it is, in two parts.

1. Houses domiciled in the Austrian Monarchy
2. Houses domiciled outside of the Austrian Monarchy

source: House Law of the Austrian Imperial Family at heraldica.org
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  #51  
Old 05-08-2011, 02:30 PM
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The rightful Heir after Archduke Franz will be his brother?
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  #52  
Old 05-08-2011, 04:48 PM
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The present Head of the Imperial Family is Archduke Karl, since January 2007.
His heir is his son, Archduke Ferdinand. Then, after Ferdinand, the next in the line are Karl's younger brother, Archduke Georg; Georg's son, Archduke Károly-Konstantin; and then Karl and Georg's cousin, Archduke Lorenz of Austria-Este, Prince of Belgium.
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  #53  
Old 05-09-2011, 05:21 AM
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Archduke Karl's marriage is not morganatic?
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  #54  
Old 05-09-2011, 06:50 AM
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No, despite his wife Francesca is merely the daughter of a baron their marriage has been authorized by Archduke Otto and it is considered as equal.
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:06 AM
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It is rather strange of course to consider equal such a marriage.The members of the Imperial Family accept this?
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:07 PM
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Some members, and in particular the groom's uncles Archduke Felix and Archduke Carl Ludwig, didn't agree with Otto's decision to allow Karl and Francesca's marriage, and refused to attend the marriage.
Considering the Habsbugs high standards about the marriages of the Archdukes, it may be indeed strange to consider equal the marriage of the (titular) Crown Prince to a Baroness (relatively) recently ennobled; btw, it should also be noticed that in 1976 Archduke Otto acknowledged as equal the marriage of Carl Ludwig's son Rudolf to a Belgian baroness.
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  #57  
Old 05-09-2011, 05:27 PM
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Obviously the rules were not respected by Dr.Otto Habsburg.
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  #58  
Old 05-10-2011, 04:06 AM
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Obviously the rules were not respected by Dr.Otto Habsburg.
As Head of the House he could change the rules. And this is what he did. Nowadays it seems the brides only has to belong to a christian faith. Therefore woman like Maya al Askary, Mayasuni Heath and Ashwitha Goswami became Archduchesses with their marriages.
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  #59  
Old 05-10-2011, 04:16 AM
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along the line i wonder exactly how often one married his or her own relative
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  #60  
Old 05-11-2011, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Lalla Meriem View Post
You forget that Maria-Anunciata and Marie-Astrid are also his cousins. He isn't just related to the Habsbourg/Nassau families. Anunciata and Astrid are the granddaughters of Grand Duchess Josephine-Charlotte who is the sister of Amedeo's grandfather. They have been raised as cousins and are very close. I sincerely doubt they would ever consider each other as potential partners.
No, Lalla Meriem, I do not forget... but I also don't know why having grandparents as siblings would bar Amedeo from marrying either of the young Liechtenstein sisters.

To give one example from recent history: Archduke Carl-Christian of Austria and Princess Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg also had grandparents who were siblings. Princess Zita of Bourbon-Parma (who later became Empress of Austria and Queen of Hungary) was the paternal grandmother of Carl-Christian. One of Zita's brothers, Prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma, was the paternal grandfather of Marie-Astrid. And yet Carl-Christian and Marie-Astrid were able to marry without any problems from any quarter. On the contrary, there was widespread joy at their engagement.

In short, to have grandparents as siblings is no impediment... not from the Church, not from the state, not from the families. I'm not sure on what you are basing your comment.

On the other hand, it would be quite unthinkable for Princesses Maria-Anunciata or Marie-Astrid of Liechtenstein to marry either Archduke Imre, AD Christoph or AD Alexander of Austria (sons of AD Carl-Christian and Marie-Astrid), given that their mothers are sisters. That would (understandably) be impossible nowadays, even though it was quite common among royal families as recently as the late 19th century. Queen Victoria, for one, was famous for promoting marriages among her grandchildren; if you look at the genealogy of the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, there are also many marriages among first cousins.
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