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  #21  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:20 PM
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I meant Hapsburg looking as in really not being attractive, I guess. I agree MT and her sister's looks came from the other side of the family. I think MA's sisters weren't bad looking but not like Elisabeth or MA. Just my opinion.
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  #22  
Old 05-03-2009, 02:17 AM
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Of course, I respect your opinion.

Personally I think they all had their own charm/attractiveness: Elisabeth as the beauty of the family (both as a child and as an adult, before the smallpox), Carolina may not have been as pretty but was quite sensuous looking (as was Amalia), Josepha also exceptionally pretty (and looked like Elisabeth when younger, IMO), Amalia the most glamorous and very sophisticated (at least before Parma) and, according the poet Metastasio (who waxed poetic rapture about the young Amalia), had an 'angelic figure', Marie Antoinette very pretty and very charming as a young girl/lady.

Portrait of a young Amalia-very pretty, IMO-by Pietro Antonio Rotari:

Rotari, Pietro Antonio; Oil on Canvas, (Circle of), Portrait of Duchess of Parma. [p4a.com, ltd.]

I only saw a couple of portraits of Johanna as a young girl since she died quite young. I confess I am not charmed very much by Mimi and Marianne but they were still quite attractive, IMO. At any rate, their considerable intellect and artistic talents more than made up for being (perhaps) less attractive than their younger sisters.
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2009, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by monica17 View Post
Elisabeth, very beautiful indeed, in this gallery of archduchesses/archdukes, in-laws and their children.

http://www.zi.fotothek.org/obj/obj19051617/Galerie

I think Elisabeth was the most beautiful of all the sisters. Marie Antoinette was very pretty up to her mid-20s but later on, it seemed like her facial features turned quite 'hard' as she got older -- for instance the two portraits by the Swedish painter.... and some of her portraits were known to be on the flattering side (Vigee Le Brun in particular).
Well, this gallery shows a very attractive Marianne, I would say the most beautiful! I am confused now
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Old 05-05-2009, 12:33 AM
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Yes, opinions vary on who was the most beautiful. I think they all were in different degrees. I find Marianne attractive in that gallery, too.
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  #25  
Old 07-08-2012, 08:52 PM
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Marianna is also called "Mariandl" by her family

I read that Maria Elisabeth was very narcissistic before she got smallpox. Her faithful companion was a mirror and she was a bit self-centered.

The sisters seemed quite distant with Marie Christine because she was their mother's favorite.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:57 AM
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Maria Amalia was the most problematic daughter; she wanted to marry Karl von Zweibrucken but MT thought he wasn't enough for her.
One should perhaps know that with hindsight Maria Theresia would surely have allowed Maria Amalia to marry Karl. For he was Karl von Wittelsbach, duke of the Palatinate-Zweibrücken who was to inherited the whole Wittelsbach-possessions including the Palatinate and Bavaria, but alas, never had heirs of his body and died before he could succed to the Electorship

Of course MT could not have known that, but IMHO Amalia could well have been able to give Karl sons and then their eldest son would have been Prince Elector of Bavaria instead of Karl's younger Max Joseph who allied himself to France when Napoleon marched against Austria....
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:03 AM
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Thanks, Kataryn!

One biographer of Maria Theresa strongly suggested that Austria was already seriously eyeing to annex Bavaria in early 1760s (and indeed there is evidence to back this claim); the experience of Franz Stephan must not be repeated, therefore this match was turned down (how can they explain "robbing" a family member had they allowed Karl and Amalia to marry?) . Another author said MT was at first approving of the match but was prevailed upon by Joseph II and Kaunitz to say no, with Kaunitz dangling the thought of Bavaria as compensation for the loss of Silesia (always an irresistible argument for the empress).

In the end, though, it went very well for Amalia. She loved her husband Ferdinand very much, they had surviving issue, and she also came to love her duchy and she was loved by the people as well. In fact, the Karl-Amalia match and its "role" in Amalia's (supposed) rebellion is much exaggerated by authors/historians although it is clear that Karl bore a grudge against Austria after being turned down twice (he also asked for Maria Elisabeth's hand in the early 1770s) and also for Austria's attempts to rob him of his (eventual) inheritance of Bavaria. Yes, Karl's younger brother Maximilian took a long time to reconcile with the Austrians. He clearly disliked their moves to rob him & his brother to their right to inherit Bavaria.
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  #28  
Old 08-03-2012, 03:09 AM
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I read that Maria Elisabeth was very narcissistic before she got smallpox. Her faithful companion was a mirror and she was a bit self-centered. The sisters seemed quite distant with Marie Christine because she was their mother's favorite.
Maria Elisabeth was not as "useless" as she was portrayed to be, even before she got smallpox; she was very talented in music, said to be the most talented among her siblings on it: she had a beautiful voice, could play the keyboard at a very advanced level, and composed music as well. She also built an impressive music collection, which she continued well into her rather long life.

Maria Elisabeth was very close to Amalia so I don't think she was as self-centered as generally supposed by authors (they claim her best friend was a mirror).

There's evidence that Maria Carolina was rather close to Marie Christine, who coached her about how get rid of the minister Tanucci.
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  #29  
Old 08-10-2012, 10:09 AM
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Thank you for the information .
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  #30  
Old 08-14-2012, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by monica17 View Post
Maria Elisabeth was not as "useless" as she was portrayed to be, even before she got smallpox; she was very talented in music, said to be the most talented among her siblings on it: she had a beautiful voice, could play the keyboard at a very advanced level, and composed music as well. She also built an impressive music collection, which she continued well into her rather long life.

Maria Elisabeth was very close to Amalia so I don't think she was as self-centered as generally supposed by authors (they claim her best friend was a mirror).

There's evidence that Maria Carolina was rather close to Marie Christine, who coached her about how get rid of the minister Tanucci.
I am very interested in Empress Maria Theresa's daughters so if you do not mind me asking, where do you get these informations? Thank you
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:40 AM
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I am very interested in Empress Maria Theresa's daughters so if you do not mind me asking, where do you get these informations? Thank you
If you look through Open Library, there are usually biographies to be read online that, though sometimes more than a century old, still hold up as they were carefully researched and the research is well documented.

There is one on Maria-Theresia, which deals with her daughters in several chapters, mostly based on the correspondence of the empress with them:

Here's the part from the table of contents:

CHAPTER XXIX The Elder Daughters of Maria Theresa . . . 297 CHAPTER XXX The Fourfold Tragedy. Maria Theresa's Encouragement of Inoculation . . . ... 305 CHAPTER XXXI The First Partition of Poland . ... 314 CHAPTER XXXII The Younger Daughters of Maria Theresa . . . 319 CHAPTER XXXIII The Diminished Family. The Death of Maria Theresa's First Grandchild and of her Older Friends . . 325 CHAPTER XXXIV The Death of Van Swieten. Dissolution of the Company of Jesus. The Public School System. Abolition of Legal Torture. Variations of Kaunitz . . . 332 CHAPTER XXXV Maria Theresa's Correspondence with her Children. The War of the Bavarian Succession . . . . 341

And this is the link to where you can read the book online:
Maria Theresa (Open Library)
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  #32  
Old 08-17-2012, 07:11 AM
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Thank you very much .
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