Double-engagement in the House of Habsburg: Christoph & Adelaide; Imre & Kathleen

[Al_bina]

It is really nice to see you, Warren, joining the discussion. It would be fair to assume that Ms. Walker could not know that her ardent speeches would be dissected by the royal watchers. Furthermore her proclamations tend to lack diplomatic wording.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Al bina

It is really nice to see you, Warren, joining the discussion.

Just lightly.
.

[Lindy]

I am wondering about the identity of a few people in the group photo. Who is the short, older woman standing next to Archduke Rudolphe's wife? And what about the couple standing between Christophe and Kathleen (the woman is wearing a rust color outfit)? Are they the parents of Kathleen or of Adelaide?

It is nice to see that Christophe and Imre are supported by so many of their cousins. It looks like Prince Jean's three sons are there, as well as four of Henri's children (where is Tessie?), and some children of Rudolphe. Both Yolande and Queen Fabiola look wonderful! Marie-Astrid and Carl-Christian are a lovely couple. I wonder if they held a joint anouncement to downplay the suitability of Kathleen. Did Marie-Astrid and Margarethe have a joint engagement anouncement? I know they were married within six weeks of one another.

[Ceallach]

Originally Posted by claypoint2

For the record, members of the Habsburg-Lothringen family have held elected office as a result of democratic processes (e.g., the late Archduke Otto and the current head of House, Archduke Karl). In fact, obituaries for Archduke Otto called him "a champion of a democratic Europe."

Another one - as she is referred in wiki:

Walburga Habsburg Douglas, Countess Douglas (born 5 October 1958) is a German-born Swedish lawyer and politician, currently serving as a member of the Parliament of Sweden for the ruling Moderate Party (since 2006). She is also the Vice President of the Paneuropean Union and a board member of the Institute for Information on the Crimes of Communism. A member of the House of Habsburg, she is also known as Archduchess Walburga of Austria, Archduchess and Princess Imperial of Austria, Princess Royal of Hungary and Bohemia, Countess Douglas, with the style Her Imperial and Royal Highness.

[claypoint2]

Yes! Thank you, Ceallach. I forgot Archduchess Walburga.

Lindy: I wondered the same. My guess is that the man and woman standing immediately to the left of Archduke Christoph are Adé's parents, and that the slightly shorter woman standing to the right of Archduke Rudolf is Katie's mother... but I really don't know.

To answer your other question, the engagements of Princesses Marie Astrid and Margaretha of Luxembourg were not announced simultaneously, even though both the engagements and the marriages took place in short succession (Marie Astrid first in both cases): Noblesse & Royautés » Archives : les fiançailles de Margaretha de Luxembourg et Nicolas de Liechtenstein

Here is a translation:

<<The announcement of the engagement of Princess Margaretha of Luxembourg, daughter of Grand Duke Jean and of Grand Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte of Luxembourg, to Prince Nicholas of Liechtenstein, son of Prince Franz Josef and Princess Georgina of Liechtenstein, took everyone by surprise. In fact, the Luxembourgish court had announced only a short time previously the engagement of Princess Marie Astrid of Luxembourg. The presentation of the engaged couple, surrounded by their families, took place in the castle of Colmar-Berg. Princess Margaretha was wearing her engagement ring: a ruby set with diamonds. The date of the wedding is set for 20 March 1982, six weeks after that of Princess Marie Astrid. The engaged couple became better acquainted during a ball that was given on the eve of the wedding of Hereditary Grand Duke Henri in February 1981.>>

[hrhNJ]

Although I do not agree with Ms. Walker's views, I do hope that the couple has a long and happy marriage without Ms. Walker attempting to force her ideologies on others (although I doubt that, seeing as her job seems to be just that ). Congratulations to all- it is a lovely day when two people decide to spend the rest of their lives together.

[Lady74]

He is marrying her so I would think he would have the same views as her. Can't imagine that he didn't agree to what she is doing.

[Saschana]

I don't doubt that the family of Archduke Imre agrees her being pro-life and some of her other believes as they are conservative catholic just like her. But like a lot of people here, I think that they don't agree that she is so outspoken about it as they are all very discreet people.

Originally Posted by Lindy

I am wondering about the identity of a few people in the group photo. Who is the short, older woman standing next to Archduke Rudolphe's wife? And what about the couple standing between Christophe and Kathleen (the woman is wearing a rust color outfit)? Are they the parents of Kathleen or of Adelaide?

It is nice to see that Christophe and Imre are supported by so many of their cousins. It looks like Prince Jean's three sons are there, as well as four of Henri's children (where is Tessie?), and some children of Rudolphe. Both Yolande and Queen Fabiola look wonderful! Marie-Astrid and Carl-Christian are a lovely couple. I wonder if they held a joint anouncement to downplay the suitability of Kathleen. Did Marie-Astrid and Margarethe have a joint engagement anouncement? I know they were married within six weeks of one another.

I only see two of Prince Jean's sons, Prince Constantin (next to Prince Sebastien) and Prince Carl Johan (behind Kathleen). The people between Christophe and Kathleen are indeed her parents. I guess that Tessy prefered to go home to Luxembourg to visit her own family as she lives abroad with her family and probably doesn't spend too much time with them and neither the grand ducal couple nor Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume or all the other aunts, uncles, and cousins of the Archdukes where there. Most of the other lesser known people are Archduke Rudolf (Carl-Christian's brother), his wife, their children and their daughter in law.

[claypoint2]

Originally Posted by Saschana

I don't doubt that the family of Archduke Imre agrees her being pro-life and some of her other believes as they are conservative catholic just like her. But like a lot of people here, I think that they don't agree that she is so outspoken about it as they are all very discreet people.

The family's discretion is precisely one of the features that I have so admired in them over the years. It is clear that they have deeply held beliefs, and yet they lead through quiet example, by the manner in which they live their lives. This often has a much more powerful (and positive) effect on the observer than strident militancy; the latter often makes people turn away.

[Fürstin Taxis]

I don´t like her, she is smug and I´m sure she can´t wait to be Archduchess.

[Noble Consort Ming]

Originally Posted by Fürstin Taxis

I don´t like her, she is smug and I´m sure she can´t wait to be Archduchess.

Before I ask my question (and this questions is directed at anyone and not just the person I quoted) I want to ask you all to please excuse my ignorance of how titles work in this family. Will she really become an Archduchess? I thought she would not because it is not an equal marriage.

[Tilia C.]

Originally Posted by Noble Consort Ming

Before I ask my question (and this questions is directed at anyone and not just the person I quoted) I want to ask you all to please excuse my ignorance of how titles work in this family. Will she really become an Archduchess? I thought she would not because it is not an equal marriage.

IIRC the family no longer sticks to the old rules for equal marriages. So these marriages will be seen as dynastic.

[fearghas]

Originally Posted by Tilia C.

IIRC the family no longer sticks to the old rules for equal marriages. So these marriages will be seen as dynastic.

The rule is that so long as she is a Christian. I don't think that anyone can doubt that she believes ina form of Christianity.

[Kit]

The rule is that so long as she is a Christian. I don't think that anyone can doubt that she believes in a form of Christianity.

For as long as AD Karl as Head of the House of Habsburg agrees to this marriage the marriage is considered equal and therefore she will be an AD. For that she doesn't even be a Christian anymore. Karl has himself stated in an interview a few days after his father's death that he can not even imagine a single reason why he should not give his consent to future marriages of the Habsburg members. AD Otto already was very generous considering the family rules and unless a serious problem would arise because of an engagement (especially when technically non-equal) a marriage's consent would never be refused or withdrawn. Serious problem means for example when the person marrying into the family would have commited a serious crime like murder.
What's more Miss Walker and her husband are so far down the theoretical line of succession that it really doesn't matter or only very little if she would become an AD. And don't forget in Austria as the family's "home land" doesn't accept the title anyway. So as long Karl gives his permission to he marriage I wish them both the very best. And I am sure Otto would have done the same as long as Miss Walker makes his grand-nephew happy.

[MarleneKoenig]

It is an equal marriage. The only requirement is that the bride be Christian ... but legally, she will not be an archduchess because Austria is not a monarchy. She will have the surname Habsbourg-Lorraine

Originally Posted by Noble Consort Ming

Before I ask my question (and this questions is directed at anyone and not just the person I quoted) I want to ask you all to please excuse my ignorance of how titles work in this family. Will she really become an Archduchess? I thought she would not because it is not an equal marriage.

[Ceallach]

the family has a history of fast engagements, as quick as 2 months, so even though there are no dates yet - I expect summer weddings. They have had 3 weddings in the span of 13 months before so maybe they just need to work out the dates with Guillaume so they do not conflict.

missed not - would not take away

[marlene]

Please tell me what you think? I was wondering why the announcement of the engagement was done in a double fashion.Since I don't believe they will marry in the next 3 months I wondered why they didn't leave a few weeks between the announcements of each engagement.Christopher and Imre's mother was married within 6 weeks of her sister Margarethe but the announcements of their engagements were made separately I believe.As a mother, I would want each of my children to have their special moment when they announce such a special thing.I wondered if maybe they felt that any negative attention about Katie might be lost among all the interest in both couples together and might put her and Imre less in the spotlight if the the press had two couples to talk about.Just wondering, but I would be interested to know what all of you think.

[Marengo]

This thread has been cleaned up and re-opened. Although we understand that Kathleen Walker is a controversial figure, with very outspoken and vocal points of view, we urge you all to stay away from in-depth religious debates. Of course you can post information about miss Walkers activities as she is certainly not afraid to share them with the world. But this is NOT the right forum to discuss abortion, killing doctors, canonic law and such. vBulletin has the catholic forum for those interested in these kind of debates: Catholic Community Forum

Any further extensive debates on the matter will be deleted without notice. Please remind to stay respectful towards each other and towards the people discussed.

Thank you!

the TRF mod. team.

[principessa]

Who of you think that there will be a double wedding?

BTW: Have there already in royal or noble circles been double weddings?

[Marengo]

The only ones I can think of:

1793: Duchess Friederike of Mecklenburg-Strelitz and Prince Louis of Prussia; Duchess Luise of Mecklenburg-Strelitz and Crown Prince Friedrich Wilhelm of Prussia.

1818: Edward, Duke of Kent and the dowager Princess of Leiningen ; William, Duke ofClarence and Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen.

1878: Princess Charlotte of Prussia to hereditairy duke Bernhard of Saxe-Meiningen and of Princess Elisabeth-Anna of Prussia to hereditairy Grand DUke Friedrich-August of Oldenburg.

But there should be many, many more.