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  #61  
Old 07-07-2011, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandduchess24 View Post
May HI & RH otto Von Hapsburg rest in peace :: :: :: such an amazing bloodline may he RIP

He was a decendent of Marie antoinette's brother was he not? And also Leopold HRE ( holy roman emperor)
True, he was a direct descendant on the male line of Leopold II, brother of Marie Antoinette.
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  #62  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:32 AM
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He was several times descendants of four of Marie Antoinette's siblings: Holy Roman Emperor Leopold II; Archduke Ferdinand of Austria-Este, Duke of Breisgau; Queen Marie Caroline of Naples and Sicily; Duchess Marie Amelie of Parma.
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  #63  
Old 07-07-2011, 08:10 AM
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Has anyone heard about the funeral/burrial? Are the family going to try to take him to Austria like his mother, Empress Zita? They really should, and what about that custom where the heart is placed in an urn?
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  #64  
Old 07-07-2011, 08:16 AM
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Otto von Habsburg:

Otto von Habsburg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In English

Otto von Habsburg In German
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  #65  
Old 07-07-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post

He was several times descendants of four of Marie Antoinette's siblings: Holy Roman Emperor Leopold II; Archduke Ferdinand of Austria-Este, Duke of Breisgau; Queen Marie Caroline of Naples and Sicily; Duchess Marie Amelie of Parma.
And also of Louis XVI's brother, Charles X, through his granddaughter Duchess Louise of Parma.
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  #66  
Old 07-07-2011, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by principessa View Post
http://anzeigen-suchen.sueddeutsche....y=100&resize=0
(CSU)

CSU is the Christlich-Soziale Union - Christian-Social Union, a conservative party in Bavaria, the "Bavarian CDU" (Christlich-Demokratische Union - Christian-Democratic Union).
Interesting that Germany as well as Austria does not have titles anymore, but still our Prime Minister of Bavaria (which is one of the Federal States of Germany and the one Otto von Habsburg lived in) signs a death announcement for "His Imperial and Royal Highness Dr. Otto von Habsburg"... if he chose to use this style, shouldn't he have added the Archduke of Austria as well?
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  #67  
Old 07-07-2011, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kmerian View Post
HIRH is already laying in repose in St. Ulrich Church in Pöcking, photos are here:
Totenwache für einen großen Europäer | RP ONLINE

Eternal rest grant unto him O Lord, and my your perpetual light shine upon him, may he rest in peace.
Video is also online now as well:
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  #68  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by EmpressRouge View Post
And also of Louis XVI's brother, Charles X, through his granddaughter Duchess Louise of Parma.

He also was a first cousin to the late Duke of Parma,as the late Duke's father,Xavier,was a brother of the Empress Zita.
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  #69  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
Interesting that Germany as well as Austria does not have titles anymore, but still our Prime Minister of Bavaria (which is one of the Federal States of Germany and the one Otto von Habsburg lived in) signs a death announcement for "His Imperial and Royal Highness Dr. Otto von Habsburg"... if he chose to use this style, shouldn't he have added the Archduke of Austria as well?


The PM of Bavaria will host a reception for the invited guests at the Residenz after the Requiem at the Theatinerkirche and the Taking Leave ceremony at the Odeonplatz (inbetween the mentioned church and the Royal Residenz) on monday july 11th.

Officially titles are no longer,but socially all titles are in use as always,especially in this case due to respect for the late Archduke.Bavaria once was,and for a long long time,part of the Austrian Empire under Habsburg rule.

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Old 07-08-2011, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by pgm1952 View Post
Has anyone heard about the funeral/burrial? Are the family going to try to take him to Austria like his mother, Empress Zita? They really should, and what about that custom where the heart is placed in an urn?
Try and read the previous posts where all funerary details have been posted.Thank you.
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  #71  
Old 07-08-2011, 02:18 AM
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Bavaria once was,and for a long long time,part of the Austrian Empire under Habsburg rule.

No, Bavaria never was a part of the Austrian Empire. Bavaria and the Palatinate (which is historically a part of Bavaria) were ruled by the Wittelsbach-family, who held the premier electorate of the Holy Roman Empire of Germany. Thus the Bavarian ruling family were the premier noble family in Germany, even though the Habsburgs tried with the faking of the grants for their "Archducal house" to imply they were as noble as the electoral families. It was only after they got enough steady political influence with owning the crowns of Bohemia and Austria that the Head of the House of Habsburg became emperor of the Holy Roman Empire - even though he was always voted into this position by the prince-electors. You can see that this was not automatically happening when Francis Stephan of Lorraine died - the prince-electors forced his widow Maria-Theresia to grant her eldest son the same rights she enjoyed as absolute ruler of the Habsburg lands before they voted for Joseph to become new emperor as successor of his father: no power in the Habsburg lands, no emperor!

When the Holy Roman Empire ended, electoral (ducal) Bavaria became the kingdom of Bavaria while the Habsburg lands formed the Austrian empire. But Bavaria never was part of the Austrian empire and there were many wars and struggles between the neighboring countries. And many marriages, of course.
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  #72  
Old 07-08-2011, 03:17 AM
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Very true, one thing was the Holy Roman Empire (HRE) and another the Austrian Empire (AE). Bavaria was not a member of the AE. Maybe what he meant was that Bavaria was a member of the HRE, and the Wittelsbachs were somehow below to the Habsburgs in rank. But this was more in theory than in practice, because the HRH was very weak, and every state did as they pleased. In the case of Bayern being a very large one, it was in all purposes practically an independent state balancing between France and Austria and getting the most of it.

Besides the grand politics of the past and of today, the honours that Otto is getting in Munich these days are quite understandable because of his decades representing Bayern as a member of the EParliament and for the simple fact of living in Bayern for so long. Furthermore there is a strong and healthy bond between Austrians and Bavarians based on countless bonds between those two peoples, and countless differences with the Prussians, yesterday and today.
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  #73  
Old 07-08-2011, 07:28 AM
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Yes,that was what "he" meant indeed...grin..

The HRH was neither Holy,nor Roman nor an empire as such either tho.
Another early attempt for a united Europe,maybe yes,as I like to see it.

Benedictine Abbey of Pannonhalma,Hungary,where the Heart of the late Archduke Otto will be interred on sunday july 17th.

http://www.anp-photo.com/search.pp?p...15986473&pos=5
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  #74  
Old 07-08-2011, 08:23 AM
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Besides the grand politics of the past and of today, the honours that Otto is getting in Munich these days are quite understandable because of his decades representing Bayern as a member of the EParliament and for the simple fact of living in Bayern for so long.
You're absolutely right. Otto represented the CSU as a conservative party at the EU parliament in times when important decisions were made for the future of the European Union as a unifieing body of government in Europe and he did a very good job at it. It's interesting that the voters actually voted for him as if he was born a Bavarian (there was no minus factor for him on being born an Austrian). He was very much loved in the village he lived in and in the whole of Bavaria, while he never upstaged our duke Franz. He was as friendly if you called him "Herr Habsburg" or "Dr. Habsburg" as when you called him Your Imperial Highness. It is sad to know that Bavaria looses this Habsburg-presence now. I wonder what will become of his house? I don't think one of his children live there?

There is a Stefan Habsburg, though, who lives in Pöcking, too, but the only Stefan Habsburg I could trace is a descendant of the Hungarian-line of the Habsburgs, born in Starnberg, yes, but quite remotely related to Otto. Does anyone knows more?

Quote:
Furthermore there is a strong and healthy bond between Austrians and Bavarians based on countless bonds between those two peoples, and countless differences with the Prussians, yesterday and today.
You sure of that? <looking very sceptical> I live not far from the Austrian border in Bavaria and I personally doubt that.. Yes, there are bonds, strong bonds but it's a bit like siblings - together against the world (especially Prussia and Prussians) but non-stop at war with each other.
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  #75  
Old 07-08-2011, 08:54 AM
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Yes,that was what "he" meant indeed...grin..

The HRH was neither Holy,nor Roman nor an empire as such either tho.
Another early attempt for a united Europe,maybe yes,as I like to see it.
The full title of the HRE was "Holy Roman Empire of German nation" (Sacrum Romanum Imperium Nationis Germanicæ) and it formed when Rome and Italy belonged to it, between 900 and 1000. The idea was that the medieval rulers of it wanted to show that they continued the tradition of the west-roman empire in a christian way according to roman canonical laws (as a contrast to the byzantinian east-roman empire which was orthodox christian).

I don't want to go into too much history and it is true what you quote here from Voltaire: in the end it was neither Holy, Roman or an empire (though this point can be discussed when you consider the Habsburg-kingdoms as real parts of it - but then we discuss the Germanness...). But that was after the Empire had been established for more than 800 years and at a time when all around it national states had been formed.

But it sure was the idea to have an empire in which peace was protected and the borders were save while in it semi-independant states formed a unit which allowed for individual rule but to have common laws and one highest liege lord as the emperor who was voted by the most senior of rulers.

If you've gone to a German school, you know much more about it and if not, there is no need IMHO to know much more, once you're not a history buff.
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  #76  
Old 07-08-2011, 09:05 AM
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Help Kataryn,LOL,sorry,we're in a death thread...,No,I'm not a history buff no.......But the history is interesting yes,I knew about Rome & parts of what is now called Italy being once being part of it,yes,as well as german schools teaching the full monty and pride of the Empire still,yes.

To get us back on topic:

The Basilica of Pannonhalma,Hungary:

http://www.anp-photo.com/search.pp?p...15986433&pos=1

http://www.anp-photo.com/search.pp?p...15986464&pos=4
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  #77  
Old 07-08-2011, 09:20 AM
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Help Kataryn,LOL,sorry,we're in a death thread...,No,I'm not a history buff no.......But the history is interesting yes,I knew about Rome & parts of what is now called Italy being once being part of it,yes,as well as german schools teaching the full monty and pride of the Empire still,yes.
One last answer, though, then I'm back on topic as well :
one has to have been at the Castel del Monte in the south of Italy to really understand what the HRE once was, I think, with an emperor at that time reigning Germany from this area... And it worked. Well, somehow.

As for German schools: when I went to school there was not much interest in teaching the current history of the BRD (Federal Republic of Germany, where I'M from) and the DDR (German Democratic Republic, reunited in 1991 with the BRD) and of course they didn't want to approach the Nazi-times in depth. Thus most teachers took their time on teaching about the HRE after having gone lovingly into all kind of details about Ancient Egypt, Alexander The Great and Greece, Rome, The Germanic invasion (Voelkerwanderung).... So it came that on finishing 10th term, we had just reached the end of WWI unfortunately.... and when I took history as a major in 11th term we started afresh with Mesopotania. At least thusly I knew about about the ancient politics when the Guld War started...
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  #78  
Old 07-08-2011, 09:34 AM
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May he rest in peace !
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  #79  
Old 07-08-2011, 04:28 PM
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Does anyone know if we will watch the live broadcast of the funeral on July 16th via Internet ??
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:42 AM
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Does anyone know if we will watch the live broadcast of the funeral on July 16th via Internet ??
Austrian national tv station ORF will air the Requiem LIVE on saturday july 16th so there is hope to get a good link here on the web.

Bavarian tv will air the Requiem at the Theatinerkirche,Munich on monday morning the 11th.




The French Republic has posthumously bestowed the late Archduke Otto with the Chevalier de Ordre National de la Legion d'Honneur,the highest possible Order of the Republique Francaise.The Order was handed out to the eldest son and heir of the deceased,the Archduke Karl,at the foot of the coffin of Archduke Otto,Pöcking Bavaria yesterday by the Grand Maître of the Ordre National de la Legion d'Honneur,French Forces General Jean Louis Georgelin.

The Order is bestowed to honour the work of Archduke Otto for a united Europe and for enhancing French - German relations.

What a generous,wonderfull and moving gesture to acknowledge the work of Archduke Otto.

More details for the funeral arrangements have been announced.

The funeral of HI & RH will be a State Funeral with TE President Heinz Fischer and Chancellor Werner Fayman as well as the Governor of Nieder-Österreich and HSH Prince Hans-Adam of Liechtenstein in attendance as well as 1000 invited guests at the Requiem in the Stephans Dom,Vienna,july 16th.

Today,saturday the first of five Requiems is to be celebrated at Pöcking,hometown of the deceased.

Monday july 11th at 10.00AM,The Requiem at the Theatinerkirche,the Taking-Leave ceremony at the Odeons Square followed by a reception hosted by the Bavarian Prime Minister at the Residenz,the Royal Palace opposite the Theatinerkirche & Odeons Square.

Tuesday and wednesday the remains of TI & RH will lie in repose at the Wahlfartskirche Mariazell,Austria where a Requiem will be celebrated on wednesday.

Wednesday at 20.00PM,arrival of the remains of TI & RH at the Kapuziner Church,Neuen Markt,Vienna where they will lay in State.The church will be open 24 hours daily in order for the thousands expected to pay their last respect.
A video wall on the Neuen Markt will show the inside of the Kapuziner Church during the Lying in State untill friday evening.

In the night from friday july 15th to saturday july 16th the remains of HI & RH Archduke Otto will be moved to the Stephans Dom.At 07.30AM saturday there will be a morning Mass after which the church will be closed in order to make all the final arrangements including the crème coloured flower arrangments and to place the Wreaths of the Children and Grandchildren.

( The remains of HI & RH Archduchess Regina will remain in the Kapuziner church till the interment saturday evening.Archduchess Regina already had a Requiem when she passed away,with the Requiem in Mariazell being the exception on wednesday).

Invited guests,1000, will be admitted in the Stephans Dom from 13.00PM.

The President of Austria as well as the Chancellor of Austria will be in attendance while the Austrian Forces stand Guard during the ceremonies in Vienna.

His Eminence the Cardinal Christoph Schönborn will celebrate the Requiem assisted by 60 priests and Bishops,while the Dom musicians perform Michael Haydn's Requiem.

After the Requiem the remains of Archduke Otto will be moved by open car,( no carriage as was the wish of the late Archduke as he was a modern man and thought a carriage not fitting in this day and age),from the Stephans Dom to the Kapuzinergruft via the Graben,the Kohlmarkt to the Hofburg and from there via the Ring to the Neuen Markt and the Kapuzinergruft.

There will be four (4)..video walls where the thousands who are expected can watch the Requiem,2 walls at the Stephans Square,1 at the Helden Square and one on the Neuen Markt.The funeral procession is expected to be the longest in Austrian history according to the organisers with an approximate lenght of 1.2 kilometer.

At 19.00PM,the "Knocking on the Door" ceremony at the Kapuzinergruft where the Master of Ceremonies will knock on the door and when the monk inside asks who is there will answer with mentioning the full Titles and Honours of the deceased after which the monk will reply;"We do not know them",then the Master of Ceremonies will knock again but with only mentiong the titles of Archduke and Archduchess and again the monk will reply the same; "We do not know them".The third time the Master of Ceremonies knocks on the door and when the monk asks again who is there,the Master of Ceremonies will reply:'Otto and Regina,two poor sinners" after which the monk will grant admittance and open the doors to the Crypt.A tradition for hundreds of years for the Imperial Family.

The interment in the Gruftkapelle next to Empress Zita and Archduke Carl Ludwig is a private affair for Habsburg Family members only.

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