Death and Funeral of HI&RH Archduke Otto (1912-2011)

[Cory]

Who Can Receive Communion?

[Moonmaiden23]

I am very surprised if the King of Sweden received the Catholic Eucharist and even more surprised that Cardinal Schoenborn would permit such an abuse.

A Roman Catholic can not(or should not) receive Communion unless he/she is properly disposed to do so, i.e. has been to Confession or is not in a state of mortal sin.

For a non-Catholic, who presumably neither understands nor accepts what the Church teaches about the what happens to the Body and Blood of Christ during the Mass to to receive Communion is disrespectful, imo.

[Sancia]

Originally Posted by claypoint2

I would have to disagree here, Sancia. We are in the realm of liturgy - by which I mean the postures and practices that reflect and embody our beliefs about our relationship with God - and not in the realm of mere cultural practice...

Thanks for the explanation but I am Catholic and I do attend mass every sunday so I know what I am speaking about when I am saying not eveybody is kneeling during consecration or for receiving communion in France. That is why I spoke about "cultural reason".

[lucien]

Originally Posted by amedea

A catholic Bishop can give the Communion to non-catholic people only in very peculiar cases. If ADss Eilika and King Carl Gustav received the Communion being protestants, they didn't respect the catholic rules. That would show lack of sensibility or lack of a minimum theological knowledge.

Way Too short-sighted,the deceased had a broader view on the eucomenical cause and would not have minded a bit.These sort of ultra strict nonsense is not of this world anymore,flexibilty and opennes to other denominations is.So,If Carl XVI did receives Communion,good,got him a taste of us Catholics.We like to share all our goods with all!That is the Christian spirit.

[Burzg]

‪Otto von Habsburg Funeral‬‏ - YouTube

‪Otto von Habsburg dies at the age of 98‬‏ - YouTube

[Renata4711]

A couple of points:

1) The "Three Knocks" with the ceremonial wand remind me of the Opening of the (London) Parliament where "Black Rod" knocks three times. Only in this case, he has the door slammed in his face...

2) Otto von Habsburg spelt his name thus. Why do others spell it with a "p" ?? Even in my copy of "The Scotsman" (a reputable newspaper) it had a p ......

[Kasumi]

Originally Posted by Renata4711

...
2) Otto von Habsburg spelt his name thus. Why do others spell it with a "p" ?? Even in my copy of "The Scotsman" (a reputable newspaper) it had a p ......

Lack of education of the journalists, I suppose.

[amedea]

Originally Posted by lucien

Way Too short-sighted,the deceased had a broader view on the eucomenical cause and would not have minded a bit.These sort of ultra strict nonsense is not of this world anymore,flexibilty and opennes to other denominations is.So,If Carl XVI did receives Communion,good,got him a taste of us Catholics.We like to share all our goods with all!That is the Christian spirit.

I won't comment on your arguable idea of "us Catholics", I will just say that my understanding is that AD Otto always accepted the supremacy of the Church's teachings and never pretended to be more wise than the Popes themselves.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by amedea

I won't comment on your arguable idea of "us Catholics", I will just say that my understanding is that AD Otto always accepted the supremacy of the Church's teachings and never pretended to be more wise than the Popes themselves.

Ones Faith is ones very own.Between oneself and God only.

There are plenty pretending to be more pious then the Pope,
but that doesn't mean they really are Amedeo.

The Late AD Otto not only accepted the teachings of the church,he looked beyond that,far beyond that.Hence the ceremonies including the Rabbi and the Great Mufti of Sarajewo earlyer this week.He was convinced about and on the sharing of the same God in all the three Monoistic Abrahamic Faiths,Jews,Islam and Christians.That is what I call a broad view,and he lived up to it not just with words,but with deeds,he lived that.

[maria-olivia]

SAD that the thread is again out of the subject!

Thanks to PPE who shows endless pictures of Archduke Otto and Archduchess Regina's five daughters:
Andrea , Michaela and Monika the twin sisters, Gabriella and Walburga.

Michaela changed a lot with her white hair and red Lips for his fathers's funerals.

A agree that Gabriela who is Ambassador will be the best first Lady of the Habsbourg head of Empress Zita and her Mother's Order (I forgot the name, it has a black ribbon).

It should be better that no royals assisted the funerals because the highlight was on them. King of Sweden receiving Communion, Hola for Infanta Christina. The most important to me were the President of Austria and his wife.

[Kasumi]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

...A agree that Gabriela who is Ambassador will be the best first Lady of the Habsbourg head of Empress Zita and her Mother's Order (I forgot the name, it has a black ribbon)...

You mean Order of Starry Cross, maria-olivia.

[Johann Salvator]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

...It should be better that no royals assisted the funerals because the highlight was on them.

I understand your feelings that the family could've been shadow by the presence of the royals. But I think it was great the presence of the royals and other heads of state as an homage and sign of respect for a great man. Imagine if they didn't show up :(

[amedea]

Jaime, count of Bardi was seated near Infanta Cristina in second row, then being in a better position than Astrid of Belgium, representing her father, and of his own elder brother. Was he representing the Queen of the Netherlands?

[maria-olivia]

Thanks to Kasumi , yes I meant the Order of the Starry Cross.
Times are changing , Archduchess Gabriela is a divorcee.

[amedea]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Times are changing , Archduchess Gabriela is a divorcee.

According to Wikipedia, her marriage was annulled canonically.

[Renata4711]

There's no proof of that in WP. I've challenged that on the Talk Page ....

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by lucien

True,and also.It is Habsburg with a B,not a disney p because that's easyer to write dear An Ard Di....must have been a slip of the keyboard there...

@ Nadine:Thank you very much.It was a pleasure.

You got me there Lucien

[Cory]

Personally I suppose the Order of precedence was not fairly respected at this funeral .Prince Jaime of Burbon-Parma was in the second desk and King Mihai I of romania, King Simeon Ii of Bulgaria and Princess Astrid of Belgium in the third one.Prince Jaime was hardly representing his aunt, Queen Beatrix, because he is not a member of the Royal Family of the Netherlands.

[Sancia]

Originally Posted by Renata4711

There's no proof of that in WP. I've challenged that on the Talk Page ....

There is a reference in the english Wikipedia page about the archduchess: de Badts de Cugnac, Chantal and Coutant de Saisseval, Guy. Le Petit Gotha. Empire d'Autriche-Hongrie. Paris, 2002, p.201.
Le Petit Gotha is usually seen like a reliable source.

[Renata4711]

Many thanks, Sancia. I'll have another look...