The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #261  
Old 07-16-2011, 07:18 PM
claypoint2's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cambridge, United States
Posts: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucien View Post
Btw,Archduchess Astrid,néé Princess of Luxembourg was not withheld by any of the reasons above,she could have sung if she so wished,no problem,but was too emotional to do so.
You make this statement as a matter of fact, lucien. Is it your opinion, or have you spoken directly with AD Marie-Astrid, who revealed that she was too emotional to sing? My own guess was that she might be praying, but I stated it as only that... as my guess... and not as an established fact. Humility, my friend, serves us all well.

Besides, no one suggested that she was "withheld" by external reasons, although protocol (which is different in different countries) can certainly operate as an important constraint at times. Whether it was a protocolary or personal decision, it is noteworthy. In fact, if protocol was - as you say - no impediment to singing the Kaiserhymne, then it is especially interesting that AD Marie-Astrid, Princess Astrid, and others didn't sing.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #262  
Old 07-16-2011, 07:23 PM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Westmeath, Ireland
Posts: 9,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by claypoint2 View Post

I came to the same conclusions about Marie-Astrid, but it was at least a bit surprising because, since her marriage, she is technically a member of the House of Habsburg, and her Austrian titles take precedence over her Luxembourgois ones. If I've got it right, she is now titled Her Imperial and Royal Highness Archduchess Marie-Astrid of Austria, Princess Imperial of Austria, Princess Royal of Hungary, Croatia, and Bohemia, Princess of Luxembourg, Princess of Nassau, Princess of Bourbon-Parma. So she is first and foremost an Archduchess of Austria, and it is interesting that she wasn't singing the Kaiserhymne.

Astrid is not an Arcduchess of Austria,her husband is is the wife of Prince Lorenz, Archduke of Austria-Este,an Italian branch of the House of Hapsburg.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #263  
Old 07-16-2011, 07:26 PM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Westmeath, Ireland
Posts: 9,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancia View Post
May it be a "cultural" decision? In Germany and Austria, everyone is kneeling for the communion. In France, people are not if they attend the ordinary form (Pope Paul VI) of the mass but are if they attend tridentine mass.
Perhaps it is,the majority of people kneel in Ireland for Holy Communion.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #264  
Old 07-16-2011, 07:39 PM
claypoint2's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cambridge, United States
Posts: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Astrid is not an Arcduchess of Austria,her husband is is the wife of Prince Lorenz, Archduke of Austria-Este,an Italian branch of the House of Hapsburg.
You are talking about Princess Astrid of Belgium. I was referring to Princess Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg, sister of the reigning Grand Duke, who is an Archduchess of Austria since her marriage in 1982 to Archduke Carl-Christian of Austria: Archduchess Marie Astrid of Austria

And, by the way, Prince Lorenz is not really from "an Italian branch of the House of Habsburg." Lorenz's father, Archduke Robert, was Otto's brother (and, before Otto had his boys, Robert was next-in-line to the Imperial throne). Robert received the Austria-Este title, along with the Duchy of Modena, when he was two years old. Over time, what made these titles especially fitting was that, when he grew up, Robert married an Italian princess, Margherita of Savoy-Aosta, so it was particularly nice for Robert's branch to be the one to have the old Italian titles.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #265  
Old 07-16-2011, 07:48 PM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Westmeath, Ireland
Posts: 9,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by claypoint2 View Post
You are talking about Princess Astrid of Belgium. I (and the rest of us) are speaking of Princess Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg, sister of the reigning Grand Duke, who is an Archduchess of Austria since her marriage in 1982 to Archduke Carl-Christian of Austria: Archduchess Marie Astrid of Austria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry,but now that you mention Marie Astrid of Luxembourg's Hapsburg titles are really titular as the monarchy was abolished in 1918.

So technically she's still Her Royal Highness Princess Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg, Princess of Nassau, Princess of Bourbon-Parma ,titular Archduchess of Austria as all Hapsburg titles are in pretence.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #266  
Old 07-16-2011, 07:58 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 442
Does anyone have any ideas what Princess Michael is wearing for
a brooch? Family Order??
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #267  
Old 07-16-2011, 08:01 PM
claypoint2's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cambridge, United States
Posts: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Perhaps it is,the majority of people kneel in Ireland for Holy Communion.
And do they have any idea why they are doing it?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #268  
Old 07-16-2011, 08:15 PM
claypoint2's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cambridge, United States
Posts: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Sorry,but now that you mention Marie Astrid of Luxembourg's Hapsburg titles are really titular as the monarchy was abolished in 1918.

So technically she's still Her Royal Highness Princess Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg, Princess of Nassau, Princess of Bourbon-Parma ,titular Archduchess of Austria as all Hapsburg titles are in pretence.
What a puzzling and nonsensical comment to make in the context of this forum and of this particular discussion! If you're holding onto the fact that the monarchy was abolished in Austria in 1918, then no one would have been singing the Kaiserhymne in the Cathedral because no one would recognize that Otto was part of the Imperial family. In that case, we wouldn't be offering hypotheses about why some members of royal families sang the hymn whereas others didn't.

Note that we are not debating here the use of titles in different countries - there are certainly other forums that focus on that topic - but we are wondering together and trying to understand why some people sang and others didn't. We all have our different ideas, but the fact that Austria doesn't recognize titles of nobility is neither here nor there. To most everyone in that church - and certainly within the family - she is Archduchess Marie-Astrid of Austria. I doubt that anyone would disagree with that statement. The fact that she didn't sing - whether it be because she was emotional, at prayer, or refraining out of allegiance to Luxembourg - is still interesting, and there is no reason why we shouldn't discuss it and offer our guesses.

In fact, my impression is that you simply don't like my comments and want to be argumentative. If so, it's a free forum, so go ahead....
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #269  
Old 07-16-2011, 10:31 PM
Danishla's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Miami, United States
Posts: 436
Eternal rest grant unto him, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. And May the prayers of the Mother of God, Our Lady of Mount Carmel, whose solemnity we celebrate today (July 16) be .a comfort to him and his family. Amen
__________________
Danishla

The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, . . . .
Reply With Quote
  #270  
Old 07-16-2011, 11:14 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 442
I have the answer to my own question about Princess Michael's order she
was wearing at the funeral.

"HRH was awarded the Order of the Starry Cross by Her Imperial Highness the Archduchess Regina of Austria who died in 2010, she is a Grand Dame of the Order of Malta, and in September 2010 received the Order of Mercy in recognition of her 32 years unpaid charity work."
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #271  
Old 07-16-2011, 11:19 PM
EmpressRouge's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 1,294
I have a question about the three knocks at the cathedral door, and the priest/bishop refusing entry to the illustrious titles until the master of ceremonies calls him a sinful mortal. I've seen this scene play out at Empress Zita's funeral and at the beginning and end of the the movie The Crown Prince (scene of Crown Prince Rudolph's funeral). Is this a Habsburg tradition? Austrian tradition? Catholic tradition? And when/how did it start?
__________________
Real princesses always wear sleeves so why do we all go for strapless?
Reply With Quote
  #272  
Old 07-17-2011, 12:12 AM
MagMil's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Skopje, Macedonia
Posts: 2,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpressRouge View Post
I have a question about the three knocks at the cathedral door, and the priest/bishop refusing entry to the illustrious titles until the master of ceremonies calls him a sinful mortal. I've seen this scene play out at Empress Zita's funeral and at the beginning and end of the the movie The Crown Prince (scene of Crown Prince Rudolph's funeral). Is this a Habsburg tradition? Austrian tradition? Catholic tradition? And when/how did it start?

I also want to know why !!!
__________________
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on. - Robert Frost
Reply With Quote
  #273  
Old 07-17-2011, 12:27 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Omaha, United States
Posts: 1,601
As I understand it's a Habsburg tradition and that after Otto, this tradition will end. I read this bit in another forum so I can't proclaim that it is true. I love the ritual though and to me, it's very meaningful. I'm sure another member will help us out.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #274  
Old 07-17-2011, 12:51 AM
abril's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Posadas, Argentina
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagMil View Post
This is the ritual in wich they go into the crypt and to "eternity" like simple mortal sinners and not like Emperor/Empress, Archduke or any title they carry, just like humans.

(sorry bc of my english )

__________________
Abril
"Repudio todo pensamiento sistemático porque todo sistema conduce necesariamente a la trampa" Jorge Luis Borges
My Twitter Page
Reply With Quote
  #275  
Old 07-17-2011, 01:39 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucien View Post
ORF starts broadcasting with a documentary on aristocratic funerals at 12.10PM,so that's 06.10AM in NYC.

The Requiem starts at 15.00PM local time,09.00AM EST.

No,there are no nor will be online "booklets",
if not in attendance in person= no " booklet"...


Thank You, Lucien, for all the info. you provide, including the much coveted links. :)

Because of you I was able to watch the whole beautiful ceremony live early this morning. The music was stunning.

It's been a pleasure following & reading your posts as well.

Sincerely, Nadine
__________________
"only as high as I reach can I grow, only as far as I seek can I go, only as deep as I look can I see, only as much as I dream can I be"
Reply With Quote
  #276  
Old 07-17-2011, 02:06 AM
lucien's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 6,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Astrid is not an Arcduchess of Austria,her husband is is the wife of Prince Lorenz, Archduke of Austria-Este,an Italian branch of the House of Hapsburg.
True,and also.It is Habsburg with a B,not a disney p because that's easyer to write dear An Ard Di....must have been a slip of the keyboard there...

@ Nadine:Thank you very much.It was a pleasure.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #277  
Old 07-17-2011, 02:09 AM
lucien's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 6,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
As I understand it's a Habsburg tradition and that after Otto, this tradition will end. I read this bit in another forum so I can't proclaim that it is true. I love the ritual though and to me, it's very meaningful. I'm sure another member will help us out.
A tradition that wasn't written down untill the funeral of Emperor Franz Jozef,there are no documents inclining the ritual with the capuchin monk took place before 1916.So,it was sort of a short-lived ( no pun intended) tradition.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #278  
Old 07-17-2011, 02:37 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,854
There was nobody from the Royal Houses of Bavaria, Saxony, Hannover at the funeral?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #279  
Old 07-17-2011, 02:48 AM
amedea's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TORINO, Italy
Posts: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by claypoint2 View Post
I don't believe that Eilika has converted. And note that King Carl Gustav of Sweden, a Protestant, also received Holy Communion. If I remember correctly, in the Roman Catholic Church it is within the discretion of the bishop of each diocese to decide who will receive the Holy Eucharist. Christoph Schönborn, Archbishop of Vienna and a cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church, was the principal celebrant and also gave communion to the family and foreign royals, so it may have been entirely in his discretion to do so.
A catholic Bishop can give the Communion to non-catholic people only in very peculiar cases. If ADss Eilika and King Carl Gustav received the Communion being protestants, they didn't respect the catholic rules. That would show lack of sensibility or lack of a minimum theological knowledge.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #280  
Old 07-17-2011, 02:54 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,854
Only Orthodox can receive Eucharist in a catholic church.Obviously this is not the case for an anglican or a protestant.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
archduke otto, death, funeral, habsburg, vienna


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Last Hours, Death, Transfer from France, Funeral and Interment Josefine Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 820 Yesterday 09:33 PM




Popular Tags
abdication belgium birth carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events fashion germany grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander letizia luxembourg nobility official visit olympics ottoman pregnancy president hollande prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince daniel prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen silvia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit stockholm sweden the hague visit wedding



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:58 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]