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  #241  
Old 07-16-2011, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
To Lucien ,
Thanks for your work. I was frustrated I could see what happened in Bavaria but not the most interesting in Austria. Wonderful pictures of one of the Gotha's greatest Event
Seeing the pictures Archduke Karl will be a perfect Head of the House of Habsbourg.
I think he will wear "black tie" when he officially will receive the Collar of the Golden Fleece. Do you think he will wear his Father's Collar ?
I think Archduke Otto made his son souverain of the Order of the Golden Fleece some years ago? Thus today the souverain buried a fellow member, no?
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  #242  
Old 07-16-2011, 01:59 PM
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I think Archduke Otto made his son souverain of the Order of the Golden Fleece some years ago? Thus today the souverain buried a fellow member, no?


Archduke Karl is Sovereign of the Order of the Toison d'Or since 2007.

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  #243  
Old 07-16-2011, 01:59 PM
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Were Prince & Princess Michael of Kent present?
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  #244  
Old 07-16-2011, 02:45 PM
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I would be grateful if someone could post a list of all reigning and former reigning guests to the funeral of HIRH Otto von Habsburg
Thank You in advance

Alex R.
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  #245  
Old 07-16-2011, 02:50 PM
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HM King Karl XVI Gustav of Sweden and HM Queen Silvia
HM King Mihai I of Romania
HM King Simeon II of Bulgaria
HRH Grand Duke Henri of Luxembourg
HSH Prince Hans Adam II of Liechtenstein and HSH Princess Maria Aglae
HRH Infanta Cristina os Spain
HRH Princess Astrid of Belgium and HIRH Archduke Lorenz of Habsburg-Este
HRH Prince Hassan of Jordan
HRH Prince Jaime of Bourbon -Parme....
HRH Grand Duchess Maria Tereza of Luxembourg
HRH Duke of Braganza and HRH Duchess of Braganza
HRH Crown Prince Nicola of Montenegro
HRIH Prince georg von Preussen and HSH Princess Sophie von Isenburg
HRH Duke Friedrich von Wurttemberg
HRH Prince Karl von Hohenzollern
HRH Prince Nicolae of Romania
HRH Princess Maria Teresa of Bourbon-Parma
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  #246  
Old 07-16-2011, 02:57 PM
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By the way, kudos to the pallbearers. The coffin must have been very heavy!
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  #247  
Old 07-16-2011, 04:57 PM
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The funeral of Otto Habsburg-Lothringen. July 16, 2011

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  #248  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:12 PM
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I, too, was interested to observe who sang the Kaiserhymne and who didn't. Of course the President of Austria did not sing, as he is the leader of a Republic. I didn't expect that any reigning monarch, pretender to a throne (e.g., Michael of Romania), or member of another royal family (e.g., Princess Astrid of Belgium) would sing the anthem because, in a way, it might mean that they were "pledging allegiance" to a foreign monarch. After all, one of the lines in the hymn could be translated as "[the Emperor] leads us with a wise hand," so it wouldn't be very fitting for another monarch or member of a foreign royal family.

And indeed Grand Duke Henri of Luxembourg did not sing, and it seemed that King Carl Gustav of Sweden also didn't sing (though this wasn't as clear), and neither did Michael of Romania nor Princess Astrid of Belgium... although her husband, Archduke Lorenz, did sing.... After all, he is a Habsburg by birth, although he was also created a Prince of Belgium by his father-in-law and may have been representing King Albert at the funeral.

But a couple of people truly surprised me. As lucien noted, Queen Silvia of Sweden did sing the Kaiserhymne, as did the reigning Prince and Princess of Liechtenstein. Most interesting, at least to me, was that Princess Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg, who is an Archduchess of Austria by marriage, did not sing... She appeared absorbed in prayer, so perhaps that was the reason, but it was noteworthy. By contrast, her husband, Archduke Carl Christian and his sister, Archduchess Constanza (a Princess of Auersperg-Trautson by marriage) were standing on either side of Marie-Astrid and singing heartily.
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  #249  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:20 PM
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About foreign royals:
- I doubt Maria Teresa of Luxembourg was present since the Grand Duke was alone in the Cathedral and in the procession. Any pics of her?
- I think having seen prince Leopold of Bavaria and his wife Ursula

About the members of the Habsburg family, apart from the children and the grand-children of AD Otto, I spotted:
-ADss Carl Ludwig (Yolande de Ligne)
-ADss Rudolph (Anna Gabriele von Wrede)
-AD Lorenz and wife (Astrid of Belgium)
-AD Carl Christian with wife (Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg) and sons;
-AD Michael (that, if I'm not mistaken, was receiving the guests)
-AD Paul (that was one of the celebrating priests)
-prince Mariano-Hugo Windish-Graetz, husband of ADss Sophie
-count Riprand von Arco-Zienneberg, husband of ADss Maria Beatrix (near him was his wife or one of his daughters??)
Did anyone see some other member of the family? Could you post pictures of them? This could be the occasion to see the less known member of the house.

I think that all the members of the house of Habsburg should have paid their respect to such a head of the house and be present today, especially the young generation that need to understand what an heritage they have. I really wonder if Amedeo, Maria Laura and Joachim are truly stucked at work and in the army respectively or if they simply don't bother.
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  #250  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:20 PM
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It was lovely to see Georg Friedrich of Prussia and his fiancée, Princess Sophie of Isenburg, in the procession from the Stephansdom to the Kapuzinergruft. I'm pretty sure - but not entirely certain - that I also caught a glimpse of Philoména d'Orléans, wife of Prince Jean of Orléans. Could anyone please confirm?
Quote:
Originally Posted by amedea View Post
- I think having seen prince Leopold of Bavaria and his wife Ursula.
I didn't see Leopold and Ursula, but I saw Duke Max in Bavaria with his wife, born Countess Elisabeth Douglas (of the Swedish Douglases, who are also related to one of Otto's daughters) in the procession to the Kapuzinergruft.
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  #251  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by claypoint2 View Post
By contrast, her husband, Archduke Carl Christian and his sister, Archduchess Constanza (a Princess of Auersperg-Trautson by marriage) were standing on either side of Marie-Astrid and singing heartily.
Was she ADss Costanza, princess Auerperg-Trautson or ADss Alexandra, Mrs Riesle?
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  #252  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:37 PM
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I am not surprised princess Marie-Astrid did not song the hymn: she is the daughter and the sister of a reigning monarch, that would have looked very weird.

Did archduchess Eilika convert to catholicism? I saw her receive the communion but I thought she was protestant.
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  #253  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by amedea View Post
Was she ADss Costanza, princess Auerperg-Trautson or ADss Alexandra, Mrs Riesle?
Thank you for the correction, amedea! Yes, it looked more like AD Alexandra. I was thinking that AD Constanza had aged a bit, but I had a mental blip and completely forgot about Mrs. Héctor Riesle. Thanks.
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  #254  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:46 PM
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Please, help, I have a problem: I can't read this thread further than page 12. I can post replies but my browser refuses to show page 13
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  #255  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:51 PM
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Did archduchess Eilika convert to catholicism? I saw her receive the communion but I thought she was protestant.
The interesting thing is that she seems against the idea of receiving the communion in the preconciliar way as the rest of the family do and she receive it standing.
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  #256  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancia
Did archduchess Eilika convert to catholicism? I saw her receive the communion but I thought she was protestant.

The funny thing is that she seems against the idea of receiving the communion in the preconciliar way as the rest of the family do and she receive it standing.
Yes, I noticed it. But I saw other relatives who receive it standing and archduchess Yolande received the communion in a "mixed" way. So...
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  #257  
Old 07-16-2011, 06:00 PM
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I am not surprised princess Marie-Astrid did not song the hymn: she is the daughter and the sister of a reigning monarch, that would have looked very weird.
I came to the same conclusions about Marie-Astrid, but it was at least a bit surprising because, since her marriage, she is technically a member of the House of Habsburg, and her Austrian titles take precedence over her Luxembourgois ones. If I've got it right, she is now titled Her Imperial and Royal Highness Archduchess Marie-Astrid of Austria, Princess Imperial of Austria, Princess Royal of Hungary, Croatia, and Bohemia, Princess of Luxembourg, Princess of Nassau, Princess of Bourbon-Parma. So she is first and foremost an Archduchess of Austria, and it is interesting that she wasn't singing the Kaiserhymne.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancia View Post
Did archduchess Eilika convert to catholicism? I saw her receive the communion but I thought she was protestant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amedea View Post
The interesting thing is that she seems against the idea of receiving the communion in the preconciliar way as the rest of the family do and she receive it standing.
I don't believe that Eilika has converted. And note that King Carl Gustav of Sweden, a Protestant, also received Holy Communion. If I remember correctly, in the Roman Catholic Church it is within the discretion of the bishop of each diocese to decide who will receive the Holy Eucharist. Christoph Sch
önborn, Archbishop of Vienna and a cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church, was the principal celebrant and also gave communion to the family and foreign royals, so it may have been entirely in his discretion to do so.

In fact, I wondered if Eilika's decision to receive Holy Communion standing (all the Catholics were kneeling) was a deliberate one. It is an Easter posture, and it might be based on a theological understanding that every Christian funeral is, at its core, a celebration of the resurrection. Of course this is not a uniquely Lutheran or Anglican understanding of theology as reflected in liturgical practice, although it is probably more widely acknowledged in those circles; it is the reason why Queen Fabiola of Belgium, a devout Catholic, wore a white dress to the funeral of her beloved husband, King Baudoin. To my mind, Fabiola of Belgium and Eilika of Oldenburg got it right.
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  #258  
Old 07-16-2011, 06:05 PM
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May it be a "cultural" decision? In Germany and Austria, everyone is kneeling for the communion. In France, people are not if they attend the ordinary form (Pope Paul VI) of the mass but are if they attend tridentine mass.
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  #259  
Old 07-16-2011, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
HM King Karl XVI Gustav of Sweden and HM Queen Silvia
HM King Mihai I of Romania
HM King Simeon II of Bulgaria
HRH Grand Duke Henri of Luxembourg
HSH Prince Hans Adam II of Liechtenstein and HSH Princess Maria Aglae
HRH Infanta Cristina os Spain
HRH Princess Astrid of Belgium and HIRH Archduke Lorenz of Habsburg-Este
HRH Prince Hassan of Jordan
HRH Prince Jaime of Bourbon -Parme....
HRH Grand Duchess Maria Tereza of Luxembourg
HRH Duke of Braganza and HRH Duchess of Braganza
HRH Crown Prince Nicola of Montenegro
HRIH Prince georg von Preussen and HSH Princess Sophie von Isenburg
HRH Duke Friedrich von Wurttemberg
HRH Prince Karl von Hohenzollern
HRH Prince Nicolae of Romania
HRH Princess Maria Teresa of Bourbon-Parma


And ofcourse TRH The Duke and Duchess of Parma.

Btw,Archduchess Astrid,néé Princess of Luxembourg was not withheld by any of the reasons above,she could have sung if she so wished,no problem,but was too emotional to do so.Queen Silvia,spouse of a Reigning Monarch did,no problem.

Vienna today:

PPE Agency

courtesy ppe:But,there are an awfull lot of mistakes in regard to the names of those on the pic,almost rediculous.I rather have that they are more punctual with that instead of trying to be the first to get the pics on the market.But it really shows today,fast fast fast and who cares about "details"...Well.I for one do,and many others with me.

Tomorrow afternoon will be the last of the 5 Requiems,in Budapest after which the Heart of Archduke Otto will be interred at the Benedictine Monastery of Pannonhalma.Also the last resting place of HI & RH Princess Stephanie,widow of Crown Prince Rudolph.

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  #260  
Old 07-16-2011, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sancia View Post
May it be a "cultural" decision? In Germany and Austria, everyone is kneeling for the communion. In France, people are not if they attend the ordinary form (Pope Paul VI) of the mass but are if they attend tridentine mass.
I would have to disagree here, Sancia. We are in the realm of liturgy - by which I mean the postures and practices that reflect and embody our beliefs about our relationship with God - and not in the realm of mere cultural practice. The bishops and perhaps the parish priests are the ones who decide on liturgical practice, and they are aware of its meaning. Certainly there are many, many lay people who stand, sit, or kneel in church without having the slightest idea as to why they are doing what they are doing, but this is the fault of their church (whatever it may be, and it happens everywhere) for not providing sufficient formation and education.

There is different theological significance attributed to kneeling and standing. Those of us who are Christian kneel as an act of contrition (repentance) or for private prayer. We stand for praise, celebration, and for corporate prayer (i.e., prayer as a community). Roman Catholics are slightly more inclined toward a theology of the Passion (Christ's suffering on the cross), and so they tend to do more kneeling (especially in the pre-Vatican II liturgies like the Tridentine Mass) as a sign of human guilt and repentance for Christ's suffering, because He hung on the cross for our sins. Lutherans and Anglicans are slightly more inclined toward a theology of the Resurrection -- of being in awe, celebration, and thanksgiving that, through His death, Christ destroyed death so that we might live.

That's why, if you go to a Roman Catholic church, you will likely see a cross with Jesus hanging on it (a Passion cross), whereas in Protestant churches you are more likely to see an empty (Resurrection) cross, signifying that Christ is risen.

I hope that makes sense....
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