Death and Funeral of HI&RH Archduke Otto (1912-2011)

[Harold]

Well, we can dream that the Imperial Banner will return permanently!

Who is acting as Head of the Household to knock on the door?

[Renata4711]

ORF TVthek: Adelsbegräbnisse / Burials of royals:

Austrian TV compiled this film of clips of aristocratic burials, including:
Emperor Franz-Josef, Crown Prince Rudolf and Marie Vetsera (Mayerling), Empress Sissi, Empress Zita, Queen Wilhelmina, Princess Diana, Princess Grace, Prince Rainier, Princess Margaret, Queen Mum, King Baudouin, and Marylin Monroe.

ORF TVthek: Adelsbegräbnisse - 16.07.2011 12:10 Uhr

Death and Funeral of HI&RH Archduke Otto (1912-2011)

[Sancia]

The ceremonial at the Capuchins crypt is very moving.
But where is archduchess Regina's coffin? She is supposed to be buried with her husband.

[MAfan]

Archduchess Regina's coffin is already inside the Capuchins Church.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Sancia

The ceremonial at the Capuchins crypt is very moving.
But where is archduchess Regina's coffin? She is supposed to be buried with her husband.

She is already waiting in the church to be interred together with her husband at the Gruft chapel,next to his late mother Empress Zita and brother Carl Ludwig.

[Sancia]

Thanks! I haven't practised German for a while so I don't understand the whole commentary.

[Harold]

What is Karl saying about moving his grandfather's body from Madeira to Vienna? And there will be no broadcast from inside the Crypt?

[MAfan]

No, the burial inside the Crypt will be a private ceremony, attended only by the closest relatives of Otto and Regina.

[Noor Mariam]

The broadcast was really fantastic...I am so happy having the chance of watching the whole ceremony... May his soul rest in peace!!!

Lucien, thanks again for the link !!!

[justina]

Originally Posted by Cory

He was the last Crown Prince of Austro-Hungary but his elder son could become the Emperor of Austria.I suppose many austrians think Monarchy could be a better solution for Austria.
I noticed everybody was very respectful (with the exception of the problem of the surname continously repeated without "von") and the Habsburgs seem to me quite popular despite of a so long republican campaign.

Well, as a resident in the western part of Austria I have to say that they may be known historically, but there is no chance to restore monarchy - if there is any fear that may be in vienna, but that is a different story

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Harold

What is Karl saying about moving his grandfather's body from Madeira to Vienna? And there will be no broadcast from inside the Crypt?

No broadcast inside the Crypt,it is a private family ceremony.

The remains of Blessed Emperor Karl I will remain in Madeira.After he was pronounced the Blessed Emperor Karl I,the church is responsible for him and his resting place.And as the veneration of the late Emperor Karl in Madeira is such,it was decided he will remain there,as I said earlyer this week when the late Archduke Otto's secretary and assistant Mrs Eva Demmerle said as much.

I do not know what you all think,but I thought it to be a very moving and fitting farewell.Very much so.


@ Justina,no,but like Archduke Karl said,there is no reason to break a knee over that,mann sollte eben kein knie daruber zerbrechen...

I really hope everybody was able to follow the entire ceremony.Bless you all.

[Kataryn]

I just finished the programme on Otto von Habsburg's life (I recorded the whole programme and will watch it later) and it was said that after the Audtrians threw Otto out without a passport after WWII General de Gauille of France saw to it that he got a Monegasque diplomat's passport with which he could settle in Lorraine. He also acknowledged the titles of Duc de Lorraine and Duc de Bar for official use in France which the whole family could use. But sometime at a later date Otto seem to have granted the title Duc de Bar to his brother Carl, because this branch still uses it (and it is recognized officially in Luxembourg as well) while Otto was not called a "Herzog von Lothringen und Bar" (Duke of Lorraine and of Bar) at his funeral, just Herzog von Lothringen while his mother Zita was announced at her funeral as Herzogin von Lothringen und von Bar (Duchess of Lorraine and of Bar).

Does anyone knows more? And maybe this post belongs to another thread? Sorry, if so. .

[Harold]

Thanks, Lucien, for your insight. A few more questions:

"No need to break a knee over that." What does that mean?

Who was the gentleman who knocked on the Capuchin Church? Does Karl have a "household?" I know many non-reigning royals do.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by Cory

In a real democracy a surname should be respected and not see this shameful cut off of "von".The austrian republicans still apply a non-democratical law that forbids the use of "von".They really fear to call the dead Archduke Otto von Habsburg and they continue with their "Otto Habsburg". The republicans still fear the restoration of the Habsburgs that's why they still mantain non-democratical laws of 1919.

Austria has no more "von" in a surname. So to distinguish the Austrian citizen from the German one (Otto voin Habsburg had dual citizenship), they call him Otto Habsburg or Otto Habsburg-Lothingen. Otto von Habsburg is the German name. So in a way this usage of the name includes Otto into today's Austria, using the "von" would make him a foreig citizen, an alien to Austria. The fact that the Austria president, the chancellor and the vice-chancellor were present when Otto's former titles were named at the door of the Capucine church says it all: it shows utmost respect for the dead Archduke, as it is officially not allowed to name a person who is/was Austrian citizen by these titles. It is the same respect they showed to the late empress Zita, BTW.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by Harold

Thanks, Lucien, for your insight. A few more questions:

"No need to break a knee over that." What does that mean?

Who was the gentleman who knocked on the Capuchin Church? Does Karl have a "household?" I know many non-reigning royals do.

It was a close friend of the family, Dr. Ulrich-Walter Lipp, a lawyer from Graz. He has been a friend of the Archduchess Walburga and been her witness at her wedding while she served as witness for his wedding. She introduced him to her father and they became close friends, spending many holidays en famille toegther. He helped organize many formal Habsburg occassions like the feast of the Golden wedding Jubile in Mariazell, and helped Otto plan his burial festivities, so he was the right man to be chosen as the master of ceremonies.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by Harold

"No need to break a knee over that." What does that mean?

.

I think you mean the expression: Kein Grund, etwas übers Knie zu brechen - that means: no need to hurry or to force something when it is not urgently necessary.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Harold

Thanks, Lucien, for your insight. A few more questions:

"No need to break a knee over that." What does that mean?

Who was the gentleman who knocked on the Capuchin Church? Does Karl have a "household?" I know many non-reigning royals do.

Not to break a knee = Not urgent,not opportune,no issue of discussion.
All three in this case according to Archduke Karl.

Theman of the Knocking on the Door ceremony was Mr.Lipp,a family friend and lawyer.

He does have a very modest sort of household,yes,a secretary and the odd cook and maid to dust,a nanny.He is a modest man.Household realy is too big a word for it.But there might be a few more joining especially in the office section as the new Head of the House will have a busy schedule,as had his father.He will visit all the former Habsburg Lands fe,schedules have to be made,agenda's drawn etc etc enz. But still,modest.

[An Ard Ri]

Reqiuem Mass at St Stephen's Cathedral

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5V98E3e9eA

Arrival the the Capuchins Church

‪Bestattung / Funeral - Otto von Habsburg - Anklopfzeremonie - Kapuzinerkirche‬‏ - YouTube

[maria-olivia]

To Lucien ,
Thanks for your work. I was frustrated I could see what happened in Bavaria but not the most interesting in Austria. Wonderful pictures of one of the Gotha's greatest Event
Seeing the pictures Archduke Karl will be a perfect Head of the House of Habsbourg.
I think he will wear "black tie" when he officially will receive the Collar of the Golden Fleece. Do you think he will wear his Father's Collar ?

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by Renata4711

ORF TVthek: Adelsbegräbnisse / Burials of royals:

Austrian TV compiled this film of clips of aristocratic burials, including:
Marylin Monroe.

Ah, the first "people's princess"....