Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria (1858-1889) and Mayerling


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CyrilVladisla said:


In 1889 Archduchess Gisela was living with her husband, Prince Leopold of Bavaria.
In 1889 Archduchess Marie Valerie was not yet married.
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Why would Marie Valerie's marital status influence whether her brother would send her a note??
 
I thought that he left several (8?) suicide notes, to all family members, with one notable exception: his father...?
 
That's right Lee-Z, Rudolph left notes for everyone in his immediate family except his father the Emperor.:ermm:
 
Ana Von Cleves said:
Mayerling 1968 with Omar Shariff and Catherin Deneuve & Ava Gardner not to be missed.
Fall of Eagles 1970's mini series which deals with the whole lead up to WWI devotes an episode to this. Available on Youtube...I just watched it a couple of months ago.
I believe both tout the double suicide theory. But I believe they both think the poor girl was given poisoned tea. In fact in Fall of Eagles, the girls corpse shows no signs of violence at all.
Anyway, do check out Fall of Eagles.
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Thank you, Ana, I've just watched the Mayerling episode and Episode #1 of this series, of which I had not heard before - it looks excellent.
I'll be watching the rest of the episodes, and I'm grateful you mentioned it. :flowers:
 
 
In A Dark History The Kings and Queens of Europe,
Brenda Ralph Lewis wrote:

Rudolph greatly enjoyed the theatre, social gatherings, salons, race meetings, concerts or riding in the Prater, the leisure complex of Vienna where the well-healed paraded for the purpose of seeing and being seen.
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I would not term it a romance, given her youth, the age difference, and the dreadful conclusion :shock:
 
I'm afraid poor Marie regarded it as a great love, and she was willing to accompany him into the great beyond. Rudolf just wanted and needed a companion in his death wish. Even then, he balked at killing himself. Apparently he spent several hours beside Vetsera's body, drinking, writing notes, trying to bring himself to perform that final act.
 
Valerie Rose said:
I would not term it a romance, given her youth, the age difference, and the dreadful conclusion :shock:
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Nor would I. Rudolph had Maria Vetsera's own mother as his lover at one point.:ohmy: Teenage Maria was besotted with Rudolph but I doubt the feeling was anywhere near mutual. She was simply a useful, fawning accomplice.

Far from being a romance, Mayerling was an historical tragedy featuring a mentally unstable debauched prince and his extremely immature teen girlfriend.
 
I wonder if his problems started with the bad marriage of princess Stephanie or before. She was not pretty and not the wife he wanted. On official engagement photo she has short hair like a man. It must have been scandalous back then in 1881 to appear like that as a woman.

Obviously a weak character when he wasn't able to resist Franz Joseph's order to marry Stephanie. Franz Joseph himself married Elisabeth who was beautiful and he loved her. Rudolf could have always thrown this at him. Marie Vetsera was also beaufitul, perhaps even more than Elisabeth but sadly too late for him. Maybe Franz Joseph realized Elisabeth wasn't really fit to be a queen, she was too childish, they didn't even let her bring up her children since they were affraid what she would bring up. Maybe thats why he wanted his son to marry someone more similar to his mother in character.

With extra marital affairs, syphilis, liberal views different from his father, I doubt he would have ever become an emperor. Was there a way for his father to prevent the right of succession be passed at him? Maybe abdication before death in favor of other family member?

I doubt anybody would have murdered him like Zita belived. Definitely not French. The highest threat would be from inside from conservative circles but even they knew that Franz Joseph would not let him be an emperor.
 
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Rudolf and Stephanie were actually happy at the begin, but Rudolf was indeed too weak to cope with his life. That's not Stephanies fault!
Well Elisabeth was literally (yeah I know I view this from this time, but a child is a child) a child when she was married off to FJ and as much as I think she was too egocentric, you can't ignore that.
 
what an interesting thread -- thank you :) !!

I have been fascinated by this story for years and years

I tend to think the official story seems sketchy but don't know what the actual "truth" might be, of course
 
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I've been fascinated by this saga for years as well. I read all I could about Rudolf, his Parents, romantic life, Vienna of the time, etc, obsessively at one stage, as I tend to do.

Considering that the cover-up began as soon as the Emperor learned that his son was dead and continued on for years, I don't think we are likely to learn anything new now. I do tend to think it was a straight forward murder-suicide though, largely because of Rudolf's depressive state at the time and the gullibility of Marie, his very young girlfriend.
 
truly a fascinating story -- beauty, promise(s) unfulfilled, an unsolved mystery

a delicious feast . . . so sad for all of them

but, all these years later, such a marvelous speculation :) !!
 
Today in Royal History is the 161st birthday of Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria son of Franz Joseph I of Austria and Duchess Elisabeth in Bavaria. He married Princess Stéphanie of Belgium and had one issue, Archduchess Elisabeth Marie of Austria. He was found dead age 30 together with her mistress Baroness Marie Vetsera as a result of an apparent joint suicide at Mayerling, a hunting lodge he bought three years prior and is situated in Lower Austria.
 
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Valerie Rose said:
I would not term it a romance, given her youth, the age difference, and the dreadful conclusion :shock:
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Certainly not. Both of them were a bit crazy, particularly Rudolf. He had asked other women to commit suicide with him.. and Marie just happened to be the one who was foolish enough to agree to go through with it A pretty horrible story really
 
I like the fact that his parents named Rudolf after Holy Roman Emperor Rudolf I, who was the first Habsburg to be the Emperor.
 
Today in Royal History is the 136th birthday of Princess Elisabeth Marie of Windisch-Graetz née Archduchess Elisabeth Marie of Austria only child of Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria and Princess Stéphanie of Belgium.
 
theroyalfly said:
Today in Royal History is the 136th birthday of Princess Elisabeth Marie of Windisch-Graetz née Archduchess Elisabeth Marie of Austria only child of Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria and Princess Stéphanie of Belgium.
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She was Mrs. Elisabeth Petznek when she died in 1963, widow of the late Austrian politician Leopold Petznek.
 
Did Crown Prince Rudolph ever share sensitive political and diplomatic information publicly?
 
CyrilVladisla said:
Did Crown Prince Rudolph ever share sensitive political and diplomatic information publicly?
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I read that Rudolf sympathized with liberal ideals and Hungarian nationalist movements.
 
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CyrilVladisla said:
Did Crown Prince Rudolph ever share sensitive political and diplomatic information publicly?
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What do you mean by "publicly"? The papers wouldn't print it, but he could of course have talked about his opinions within his private circle of friends and courtiers.
 
Kataryn said:
What do you mean by "publicly"? The papers wouldn't print it, but he could of course have talked about his opinions within his private circle of friends and courtiers.
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Crown Prince Rudolph and his father the Emperor would be privileged to know about top government business besides the highest Austrian imperial government officials. He may have boasted about what he knew.
 
CyrilVladisla said:
Crown Prince Rudolph and his father the Emperor would be privileged to know about top government business besides the highest Austrian imperial government officials. He may have boasted about what he knew.
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I know it was a rumour that he was killed (by the Austrian secret service) because he had talked about the state's business but it was disproven. AFAIK. I'd have to reread one of the Mayerling-books to be sure, though.
 
It was well known in Vienna that Rudolf had political views that were opposite in many ways to those of his father and that they had a strained relationship. His father did not confide in his son much on Govt matters.

One of Rudolf’s greatest friends was the newspaper proprietor and editor Moritz Szeps. His newspaper espoused liberal policies. It was closed by the authorities and Szeps was imprisoned for libel. Rudolf himself gave his friend money to start up another newspaper after he was released in 1885.


Rudolf consistently complained that he was being excluded from all political information. To appease him the Emperor gave him the post of Inspector General to the Army and ordered Austria’s Foreign Minister and the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Hungary) to brief his son on the Empire’s foreign policies.


However by early 1888 it became clear that diplomatic and political information was being leaked to some of Vienna’s newspapers. Rudolf was suspected of being the conduit and Franz Josef then ordered his Ministers to brief his son on only minor and unimportant matters and provide him with outdated documents.


The above comes from Twilight of Empire: The Tragedy at Mayerling et al, by Greg King. The book also asserts that there was an angry meeting between father and son shortly before Rudolf left for Mayerling and Rudolf’s appointment as Inspector General was expected to be rescinded.
 
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