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  #21  
Old 01-03-2011, 02:13 PM
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What was the name of Kaiser Franz Josef's secret police service? Also, a writer above asked a very relevant question, namely, did the Austrian imperial family rely strictly on an elite military unit for its bodyguard such as the Household Cavalry or did plainclothes agents guard the Kaiser, Kaiserine Elisabeth Eugenia (Sissi), Kronprinz Rudolf and his sisters? It would seem to me that the Kronprinz as the heir apparent would not have been permitted to roam about Vienna or any other location in the Austria-Hungarian, Bohemian empire and kingdom without an escort. What kind of security was in place at Mayerling in 1889 and how often did that security change posts?
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  #22  
Old 05-01-2011, 07:07 PM
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Stephanie of Windisch-Graetz

Hi, i'm looking for pictures of Stephanie of Windisch-Graetz, granddaughter of crown prince Rudolph Habsburg. I found few pictures when she was child , but i knew that she died in 2005 at 96 years old and i'm looking for pictures where she is adult and old.
Have you something about it?
Thanks.
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  #23  
Old 05-02-2011, 10:45 AM
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I would look here
Elisabeth "Erzsi" of Austria, the red Archduchess

They have some pictures of Elisabeths children :)
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  #24  
Old 05-03-2011, 03:25 PM
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Thank you Furstin Taxis, thank you very much!!!!!
There are a lot of pictures very beautiful of Erszi and her sons, and finally i saw an adult Stephanie !!!!!
Thanks more!!!
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  #25  
Old 07-03-2011, 08:25 AM
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is the leading actor playing prince rudolf a relative?
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  #26  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:52 PM
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So sad that He committed suicide with his girlfriend now I just ask why would he do such a thing, he was crown prince and son of emperor Franz Joseph I his father was happy to have a son so why suicide
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  #27  
Old 07-08-2011, 05:25 AM
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Franz Josef was happy to have a son because having a son he also had an heir, but he wasn't very happy with his son.
There was a deep rift between the Emperor and Crown Prince Rudolf, politically they had very different ideas, and this lead also Rudolf to clash with the government. Rudolf had some (good) ideas for the Empire, but he couldn't realize any of his plans because of the opposition of government and Emperor; this must have been very frustrating for him.
Rudolf then was married to a woman he didn't love at all; he wanted to divorce from her, but again he met the opposition of the Emperor and also of the Pope who refused him the anulement of the marriage; moreover, Rudolf had transmitted to his wife Stephanie a venereal disease that prevented her from having more children, and this meant that Rudolph couldn't produce a male heir with his wife. So, he was bounded to a very unhappy marriage without the possibility of at least produce an heir to the throne.
Last but not least, he was suffering of phisical and emotional/mental issues caused by his addiction to morphine.
All these elements considered together are most likely the cause of his suicide.
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  #28  
Old 07-08-2011, 07:30 AM
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Why his daughter Erzi couldn't inherit the throne?
Empress Maria Teresa inherited after her father and she was an "enlightened" monarch...
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  #29  
Old 07-08-2011, 08:36 AM
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Erzsi couldn't inherit the throne because of the Salic Law ruling the succession to the Throne; since there were many living Archdukes, they had the precedence over her.
Maria Theresia could inherit the throne only because of the total lack of any male heir.
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  #30  
Old 07-08-2011, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
Erzsi couldn't inherit the throne because of the Salic Law ruling the succession to the Throne; since there were many living Archdukes, they had the precedence over her.
Maria Theresia could inherit the throne only because of the total lack of any male heir.
This was up to discussion back then - not any high ranking advisor of the emperor was sure that the "pragmatic sanction" was not valid as long as male archdukes lived. Some thought that it could be argued that it was valid in case the emperor himself had only female offspring. it was no problem with his daughters Gisela, who had married a Bavarian prince and Marie-Valerie as she had married an archduke but what if Erzi decided on an equal marriage with a House which might press for her to become empress? Thus the emperor allowed Erzi to marry below her position on giving up all her rights to the throne. In exchange she got a large dowry and a good inheritance from her grandfather. As she was not longer a member of the House of Habsburg, the Habsburg-laws did not include her and she could stay in Austria and keep her belongings after WWII. On her deathbed she ordered her staff to close her villa against her children and call the police to come to secure her belongings as she had willed a great many Habsburg heirlooms to the republic of Austria and wanted to make sure the democratic government go these valuables. Today these are in museums in Vienna.

As for Rudolphs suicide. I believe after having read lots of books that he was indeed suicidal due to drug misuse, emotional baggage from his upbringing and potential some madness genes from his ancestry. He was a weak character but brought up an officer, so he didn't take the easy way out through poison, but needed encouragement to go through with shootinh himself. Thus he searched for someone who wanted to commit suicide with him, found her in Mary Vetsera and drove to Mayerling with her. There the couple looked themselves into his rooms where he killed Mary. After that there was no other way out for him but commit suicide. Still he didn't find the courgae till the next morning when he knew he had to either open the door and face what he had done (which was impossible for him) or go through with the suicide. So finally under pressure he could do it.

My explanation, of course but then the details known fit, because it was not two people having commited suicide together the shocked members of his staff found but a murdered girl and the Crown Prince as her murderer. Enough reason to cover up as much as possible.
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  #31  
Old 07-08-2011, 09:50 AM
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Pragmatic Sanction of 1713

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The Pragmatic Sanction of 1713 was an edict issued by Emperor Charles VI to ensure that the Austrian throne and Habsburg lands could be inherited by a daughter. Since their marriage in 1708, Charles and his wife Elizabeth Christine had not had a son, and since 1711 Charles had been the sole living male Habsburg. Moreover, Charles' elder brother Joseph I had died without male issue, making female succession a very plausible contingency. Because the Salic law tradition precluded female inheritance, Charles VI needed to take extraordinary measures to avoid a disputed succession. These precautions proved wise as Charles VI was ultimately succeeded by his elder daughter Maria Theresa (born 1717). Nevertheless, her accession was promptly met with the outbreak of the War of the Austrian Succession.
The above Is quoted from Wikipedia
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  #32  
Old 07-08-2011, 10:45 AM
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Some thought that it could be argued that it was valid in case the emperor himself had only female offspring. it was no problem with his daughters Gisela, who had married a Bavarian prince and Marie-Valerie as she had married an archduke but what if Erzi decided on an equal marriage with a House which might press for her to become empress? Thus the emperor allowed Erzi to marry below her position on giving up all her rights to the throne. In exchange she got a large dowry and a good inheritance from her grandfather.
Your post made me recall that all the Archduchesses were required to renounce to their succession rights when they married, regardless of who they were going to marry to; this was, of course, in order to avoid possible succession issues.
So both Gisela, Marie Valerie and Erzsi had to renounce to their right to the throne when they married respectively to Prince Leopold of Bavaria, Archduke Franz Salvator and Prince Otto zu Windisch-Grätz (who btw was member of a Mediatized House, so his marriage to Elisabeth was regarded as equal).
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  #33  
Old 07-08-2011, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
...Prince Otto zu Windisch-Grätz (who btw was member of a Mediatized House, so his marriage to Elisabeth was regarded as equal).
In his book Elisabeth, the red Archduchess, historian Friedrich Weissensteiner writes that the Windisch-Graetz were not on the list of Houses the Habsburgs regarded as equal. So she had to leave the House of Habsburg, which eg Marie-Valerie did not. She only formally left the House of Habsbugr after WWII to keep her possessions according to the Habsburg-laws. Its quite an interesting scene he describes and that the emperor allowed her to keep her personal title and style.
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  #34  
Old 07-09-2011, 05:34 AM
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According to this list the Windisch-Graetz were on the list of "acceptable" Houses.

source: House Law of the Austrian Imperial Family at heraldica.org
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  #35  
Old 07-17-2011, 06:54 PM
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Wasn't it one of the royal family that ended up killing himself in a hunting lodge or country house?


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  #36  
Old 07-17-2011, 07:01 PM
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Yes that was Rudolf, the Crown Prince 1n 1889. huge controversy about that!
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  #37  
Old 07-17-2011, 07:04 PM
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Yes that was Rudolf, the Crown Prince 1n 1889. huge controversy about that!
Yes wasn't he rather hmmm, socialist or communist in his political views? Is he also the one that was involved with 'working women' and thought to have a disease? I'm not as well versed with the Austrian family, could be confusing my royals.


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  #38  
Old 07-17-2011, 07:09 PM
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yes MM you are absolutely right. He didn't get along with his father FJ because of his liberal political views and yes he was definitely involved with prostitutes and had the so called-syphilis.
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  #39  
Old 07-17-2011, 07:14 PM
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OK so he was the one that was married to (Sophie?) and she ended up being barren because of his sexual disease....so his line died out with himself, if I am thinking about the right one.


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  #40  
Old 07-17-2011, 07:21 PM
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he was married to Princess Stephanie of Belgium and they had ONE child a daughter named Elizabeth (Erzsi in Hungarian) after her grandmother Empress Elizabeth. She married twice: first Prince Windischgraetz - very, very noble family. They had 4 children and several still living grand and great-grandchildren. And then she got a divorce and married an Austrian Socialist. She led a very interesting life - there is a book about her in German "Die rote Erzherzogin" (The red Archduchess) Red stands for the political party of the Austrian Socialists.
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